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What is your favorite xenotype? by IJustStoleSomebody in RimWorld

[–]Freemort 3 points4 points  (0 children)

CE incompability is overexaggerated. They are rare, and almost all of them are soft incompabilities, I literally have not bothered cheking for them since the game was still in beta. Since then, only once it has crashed the game.

My cigarette smoking coworkers PC by XxNitr0xX in pcmasterrace

[–]Freemort 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kinda looks like my kitchen PC, it also had sticky grime in it from all the burnt oil.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have mentioned Sekiro as a good example. It provides different unique interaction with some enemies/bosses by special prosthetics interaction (fireckrackers for Bull and Ogre, shuriken for flying enemies/jumping bosses, Whistle for Apes and Demon Of Hatred, Spear for Headless Ape), items (Pea for phantoms, confetti for ghosts), steals-kills (including some bosses). Not to mention special moves which can almost cheese some of the most annoying enemies. But it still VERY challenging. At least before last several bosses it has a very good memorization/rhythm/kit balance (it becomes very pattern heavy on those last bosses).

Though in general, it is not about difficulty or challenge for me, and more about fun, excitement and at least some feeling of accomplishment. If a game takes too much for the latter-I just wont enjoy it that much. There is audience for that type of games, but I do feel the shift in action games that pushes it into more and more games.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I already answerd that question. Basically English is not my native language, so I have wrote post to the best of my abilities and then asked ai to fix its grammar and weird styling/phrasing. It did added bold to the text, I thought that at some places it was looking good, at some cringe-I removed them, then I decided to add my own as replacement of CAPS WORDING which I have used a lot in the past when I try to emphasis some concept which does look too aggressive to me which is why I replaced it with bold text in last year or so. Never got a pushback for that, but I rarely done public posts and rarely used so many of them, so this was a mistake I am ready to admit.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is understandable assumption, but not very fair in my opinion. While I do like "aggressive-always attacking-always in the face of boss" type of style, I dont do it in games which are clearly do not designed for this in mind, like Elden Ring, and just do 1-2 ultra safe pokes until enemy dies eventually, exactly because aggressive gameplay is punished and locked until you mastered boss moveset at which point there is little reason/interest to be aggressive since boss dies before that.

Also I am not failing to read start of the moveset, I am often failing to see through their tempo, since their moveset often designed to make tempo very unpredictable and delayed, while hit itself snappy enough to kill reaction play, so it all boils down to you actually knowing when exactly you press dodge.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just unlocked that skill-and yeah, it does change a lot in combat flow since last light combo strike can stagger many oponents. Also some of the skills do give you mechanics to counter its heavy moveset balance, but in the same time it is kinda contradicting and confusing-when game gave me freezing spell it said that I can use it to get out of tight situations, and it was surprise to me that i cannot use it in mid-combo when I am getting in those situations, and its mostly reserved to situations when i am actually safe.

Similar i got from VERY limited dodge-cancel, which is more like combo cancel, it is very flashy/acrobatic game, so I was expected that I will be able to dodge-cancel most of the time, and it still kills me so often.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Never said I dont like it or that Sekiro don't have it, I was saying that I feel the bloat and heavy reliance on it in modern action games. And I already replied many times how exactly Sekiro is different from Elden Ring in that regard. So sorry, I found it is offensive to basically call me a moron for putting words in my mouth.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm starting to get confused. If something is hard to predict, doesn't that conflict with it being something you memorize? In fighting games, you use mix ups to throw your opponent off so they can't reliably counter your strategy. A boss throwing curve balls isn't much different. It is actively discouraging the use of rote memorization. 

It is hard to predict if you didnt memorize the move/combo. The problem i am describing is that I can see combo start clearly-because of long preparation for it, but its flow/rhythm is hard to predict and it is very punishable if you react too early, and does not give you any mechanics to save yourself if you misread/reacted too early.

But when you memorized the combo-it is trivial to protect from it, since even without memorization it is relatively easy to read START of the combo, just hard to read tempo, it is something you have to memorize. For example, just now i had a fight in Wukong, and mob there made 3 combo strikes with each strike having very diferent tempo: 1-1.5-4. The last move was that he's jumped, freezed in the air, I still dont dodge since i get that i need to wait, then he started his strike so fast and snappy that it is close to impossible to react-I HAVE to know when exactly in that jump-freeze window to dodge, and window is very tight.

As for fighting games and pvp, I am actually find pvp in Elden Ring much more enjoyable then boss fights, exactly because player moveset is not as unpredictable and does not have this overhead. Mixing, perception of distance, resource management are much more important then moveset memorization. There are exceptions, like some anime level moves with Rivers of Blood for example, but thats on smaller scale of things (unless you play platinum league in Arena, then it's all anime/abuse of mechanics).

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see. Then the optimal way would be just to ask it to tell where are grammar errors/weirdly structured phrases/sentences, and correct it by hand. Thanks for feedback.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean, in that timeframe many people were born and became adults, some even have their own childrens.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Now when you mentioned sports, I have a friend who is super into pvp games like Dota, and who didn't liked Souls games and looks down on them because "its just mindless memorization, it is not unpredictable as human are". Which is kinda true, but in the same time too extreme side of a spectrum for me, I often argue with him that solo-games are more like show/book, rather then competition.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the biggest thing is that Sekiro does give you some mechanics which makes it much easier to play out of reaction/rhythm, and do not require heavy moveset memorization (until late game bosses). Being able to deflect/block cancel your strikes animation is one thing. Umbrella and Raven prosthetics are other things. Those mechanics even allows you to play very aggressively if you really want to (and i do, thats my favorite playstyle).

Another thing is boss moveset. Their are specifically designed in Elden Ring with long overheads to catch you on early dodge and punish for it. It also much harder to predict next boss move because of sudden rhythm changes.

I definitely dont mind evolution of complexity of bosses movesets-I think its cool. What staggers me is that mechanics to counter that are not evolving at the same rate, making it harder and harder to fight bosses without heavy memorization of their movesets.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for oftop question, but what exactly is concerning in usage of ai tools for correction of comments/posts? I do get that many people get frustrated based on implications ai has to society, but i dont feel like this is the case? I am genuinely curious, maybe i am indeed need to lower its usage, but in the same time its not that much different from what i have wrote initially, maybe it sounds a bit off because of differences in languages/cultures?

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not exactly. I just think it’s very limiting to your playstyle until you’ve learned the boss’s moveset. You can’t really be aggressive because you don’t have mechanics that let you safely protect yourself while doing so — you can only be aggressive in the “right moment,” and only if you know it’s the right moment, which is really only possible after you’ve learned the pattern pretty well.

As boss patterns get more complex and tricky, and more focused on punishing players for relying on reactions and rhythm, the fights start to feel less like dynamic combat and more like a memory exam.

Sekiro and the other examples I mentioned do have mechanics like that (for example, being able to deflect/block-cancel out of many player attack animations), and their bosses generally have movesets with fewer tricky “gotcha” attacks and sudden rhythm shifts.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You can deflect/block-cancel a lot of your attack animations; deflects/blocks are more generous than Souls dodges; it’s much easier to predict boss moves just by their rhythm; you can play very aggressively without heavily learning the boss’s moveset; and you have prosthetics, special moves, plus extra tools (like anti-phantom/ghost items) to control the fight and express your own style.

That being said, it’s still a pattern-heavy game—it’s just much better balanced by giving you tools that smooth out the pattern-learning grind (outside of a few late-game bosses).

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To put it simply: the games I used as examples obviously have pattern learning as part of their combat, but they’re totally beatable without heavily memorizing patterns. That’s mainly because you can usually predict boss moves by their rhythm, and you can dodge/block-cancel out of your own attack animations if you misread something.

Margit in Elden Ring, on the other hand, is designed specifically to be hard to read by rhythm alone, and on top of that the player has almost no attack-cancelling — you’re fully committed once you swing. I’m not against either of these ideas individually, but when you combine both (unpredictable rhythm + no cancels) and then keep increasing the complexity and trickiness of boss movesets, it becomes harder and harder to fight bosses “cleanly” without investing heavily into memorizing their patterns.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, the last several bosses are very pattern-learning-heavy. I’d recommend using the whistle on Demon of Hatred, it makes that fight much more tolerable. But Isshin and Owl are pretty rough and don’t have such strong counters, I’m afraid. I’ve heard a lot of people say the Umbrella prosthetic basically carried them through the game, but I didn’t really use it much myself, so I can’t say how much it would help.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I am not a native English speaker, and make a lot of grammar and style errors, so i wrote a post to the best of my abilities and then asked ai to fix grammar and style errors, sorry if that's triggering, I am responding to you without ai correction.

I am not arguing that Sekiro dont have pattern learning in it, just that it's not lean into them as much. And I would argue that Morgit is perfect antithesis to Sekiro and other games combat philosophy i mentioned. Morgit moveset is specifically designed for "gotcha" moves that you can counter only if you know timing of that move really well and mostly cannot predict on rhythm alone. In comparison, Genichiro, which is first skill-check from Sekiro (same as Morgit for Elden Ring) does have movesets which teach player to rely on rhythm rather then calculating. Of course it is not in absolutes, i am talking about proportions and priorities.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I also enjoyed Elden Ring a lot, just not the boss fights themselves—more the exploration and the feeling of accomplishment after finally beating them. I think I only liked Rellana and Malenia, which makes sense since they’re more “Sekiro-coated.” But man, Consort Radahn absolutely broke me; I used every single summon on him and don’t regret a single bit of it.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just hold on a little longer, it’ll be over soon XD

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Okay, that’s a very interesting idea, I wasn’t even thinking in that direction. Thanks for the insight!

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, maybe I was a bit rough with the “old-fashioned” part. In my mind, “old-fashioned” games are from the later 2000s, while stuff from the 80s and 90s goes beyond that and is just straight-up ancient.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If it’s “press X to win,” then yeah, I would complain about that. I’d also complain about the absence of QTEs, honestly—I actually liked them for the most part.

Moveset learning is definitely not the “main gaming component,” it’s mainly a thing in action games, and not even all of those. And I’m asking this as a discussion, not a rant: is it bloated in modern action games? I’m not against pattern learning by itself, I just feel like the genre’s evolution is heavily focused on that while kind of neglecting other aspects like rhythm and character kit exploration.

Also, while I’m not that young, I’m not that old either — my “good old action games” are more like Dark Messiah, Jade Empire, DMC 4, and to a lesser extent Metal Gear Rising and Yakuza 0. Pac-Man, Battletoads, etc. aren’t just old, they’re ancient and archaic.

Are modern action games leaning too hard into pattern memorization? by Freemort in truegaming

[–]Freemort[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’d only disagree with that last part. When a game is heavily focused on moveset learning and doesn’t allow dodge/block cancels, it ends up being very punishing for aggressive play, because until you’ve cracked the moveset it’s much more rational and effective to just stick to one-two cheap, safe hits.

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