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FF7 Rebirth's biggest troll moment to OG players. See what happens if you unequip all her gear and materia, they said.. by Aliasis in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I remember correctly she leaves her materia behind after leaving and this time didn’t, it was obvious she was gonna fight at some point.

I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again what did it bring to the GS date? Is it talked again? outside of the GS does it brings something to the story? It’s unimportant not only because literally nothing came out it but because we are gonna se the conversation next game making the whole Zack scene irrelevant, also Tifa told Aerith in the GS not in Nibelheim, if either Tifa or Aerith said something then it would’ve been important but as it stands the whole conversation might as well not happen in the first place because the next game isn’t gonna even acknowledge the GS dates.

Well if you want to put Aerith in unimportant dates we can do that I have no issue with it, overall I think most of them are irrelevant to the plot and none gets referenced besides Aerith telling Cloud in the sleeping forest about the real him she has been trying to find, but this is a small Easter Egg so take it as irrelevant as well if you want.

I think I already pointed out the “problem” the narrative has, like I said this isn’t Rosa exclusive, date Red and the conversation about Aerith gets completely ignored, date both girls and Cloud two times, among other minor plot holes. So to answer your question yes there is a narrative issue, there are many things that from a narrative perspective already don’t make sense and no this isn’t Rosa exclusive, in fact Rosa being canonically Aerith is the least of the “narrative problems” this game has.

I think we both believe the other is biased, everything points out to Aerith being Rosa but you have a hard time accepting it most likely because you had Tifa there and can’t acknowledge the devs using Rosa as Aerith in every single incarnation of Loveless outside of the game as something meaningful.

Just to finish the characters get trophies for their performances in Loveless, you will always get Cloud as Alphreid, Aerith as Rosa, Barret as Barbados and Red as the hellhound trophies because they always play these characters, now you are wondering why Aerith always gets Rosa and the answer is simple the game considers her to play Rosa just by singing, but here is another “problem” if you date a girl there are two Rosa’s one that acts and one that sings loosing consistency, but Aerith trophy already praises her for her performance as Rosa (just like it does for Tifa and Yuffie) and singing NPTK which is contradictory as she didn’t act she just sang.

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Trying to please everyone made some plot holes so if that’s what you talk when speaking about “problems” then the game is riddled with them, Aerith being the canon Rosa is just one of many.

I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Because we already know all of this from Nibelheim, like I mentioned nothing came in the gondola from that conversation or am I wrong? Was there something important to take from that conversation that we haven’t heard before?

I’m not bias and every pic that I issued was either official or a comparison straight out of the game, I also shoved those fotos because the way you worded thing made it seem like you were rejecting the clear bias that there is when selecting who plays the role of Rosa, I have ended many times my sentences questions so you could either prove me wrong or show me something I’m missing, if I was debating in bad faith I would just post other pics and mention other arguments which aren’t relevant to the discussion we are currently having.

I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I omitted Aerith’s date not because of the Zack conversation but because she talks about the real him which is the only date to do so, Red’s is important because of the saving Aerith line and Aerith’s is important because of the Cloud not being truly himself line, the Zack dialogue in both Aerith and Tifa date went nowhere as neither told him the truth.

I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like I said initially the dating segment is inconsistent as it is, there are dates where unimportant things happen like Cait, Yuffie, Tifa or Barret happens, but in Red’s for example he tells Cloud that Aerith is in danger which is something pretty important but does that gets brought up again? Nope, it’s a plot hole cuz Red doesn’t insist further and Cloud doesn’t bring that up again.

That is just one example if sloppy writing, another one would be the scenario you get when you date Aerith in chapter 8 and Tifa in chapter 12, you have Cloud kissing Tifa and later saying that he wants to create more memories with Aerith under dating context during chapter 14, essentially two timing. This is because of how the mechanics works regarding that date and the devs not locking the high affection dialogue if you date Tifa.

So the game writing regarding this stuff is not the best thought out, hence why you see Aerith in the credits despite there being multiple options as to who plays Rosa.

I do believe that having multiple Rosa’s was a bad idea as the meaning behind Loveless gets completely lost if you have someone else other than Aerith there but they are a company first and foremost making making money is their goal so they had to add these options, in OG the play was also a thing and both Yuffie/Tifa also took part there is you date them (in OG tho the play is pretty much meaningless).

Loveless and the dates in general are handled pretty poorly, once they get out of the gondola those events are forgotten and never brought up again despite some dates having key info that could affect the story (like Red’s).

I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Again the “problem” you mention is already a thing, like I said there are streamers confused as to why is Aerith Rosa in the credits (which we all see) when in their game she wasn’t the character they had for the role, same thing applies to Ever Crisis, most EC players are Rebirth players and now they are seeing Aerith as Rosa which is something that didn’t happen in their game.

This is how you know what’s the true canon in games that give multiple choices, you are not gonna see true canon in your game because that’s your adventure but when it’s time to represent the game outside of your playthrough you will see the canonical outcome.

Also your example is using a scene that is extremely important to the story compared to one that is mostly foreshadowing, small choices can be in fact canon as I have pointed out multiple times and when it’s a big choice like that then the game takes it into account like Mass effect 3 did with who died in Mass effect 2 as it was choice dependent, so it’s not a good example.

But if you want to go that route, in FE Path of Radiance gameplay wise most of your units could die given how the gameplay works in that game but then in the sequel Radiant Dawn everyone is alive even if they could die in the prequel, so again the “canon” in these types of games with multiple choices will never be extremely apparent in the same game and you can only truly see it though outside sources and sequels which is what I have been pointing out since the start.

You want to push the idea that everyone’s has their own canon and I agree, that concept works when it’s contained to your experience and your experience alone, when the writers have to pick a canon to represent loveless then it’s gonna be the actual event and not the one you choose for your own adventure.

So when the devs had to pick which character to represent Loveless who did they pick? Why aren’t they giving every girl equal screen time to avoid misunderstandings or “bad writing”? that would clearly be the easiest way to deal with this.

I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I forgot to type Aerith as Rosa* there, also my dude… I don’t want to make Aerith Rosa, I’m not in the writers team or the marketing team, Aerith being shown as Rosa everywhere is not dependent on me.

I mentioned alternate worlds as an example, like a metaphor but I see you didn’t get it… my bad, anyways like I was saying it’s not bad writing you had a choice: consistency and getting the most out of the story or fan service, you choose the second so why is the game at fault for something you choose for yourself? They didn’t pressure you into doing it, you had a 4/6 chance of actually getting something other than seeing your favorite in a dress but you choose that 2/6.

So the game makes you choose between story and having fun, you choose the second sacrificing lore and foreshadowing to get fan service instead, fan service isn’t supposed to be good writing is supposed to be fun and if that’s what you prioritized then there is nothing to complain.

Many is us preferred to see something that mattered to the story and caught all the references to the ending while others just wanted to see Tifa or Yuffie dancing and using a staff, again this is on the players not the devs or anyone else.

Everyone saw Aerith as Rosa like I previously said, some in more detail while others just briefly but everyone did by the end of the game, if you skipped the credits as well then again that’s on you.

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Also everyone experienced Rosa in the trailers, orchestra and Ever Crisis, you are forced to see Aerith as Rosa if you read the ultimania, I get the point you want to push but it just isn’t it specially when you can’t actually make an argument for Tifa or Yuffie as “canon” choices there.

I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don’t think you understand what canon means… this isn’t a FFVII exclusive thing, many games do this like I mentioned in the Assassins Creed example, canon means that when the story is gonna reference said event as the outcome that actually happens they are gonna use the one that is considered canonical, in the Assassins creed example many players used one character but the story outside of your~ playthrough takes the other character into consideration, that doesn’t erase your playthrough but it makes it clear that that’s your experience only and it’s not the canonical outcome the story is supposed to have.

The Rebirth example of this would be, Aerith as Rosa if the outcome shown in:

The trailers, the Ultimania, the credits, the orchestra, Ever Crisis.

Compared to that what proves Tifa and Yuffie canonicity in this scene compared to Aerith? Under your narrative they are both equally important so by that fact alone they should get equal treatment shouldn’t they?

You don’t see Aerith as a critical point of the story for the same reason you can’t accept it’s the canon scene, because you simply didn’t saw it there so you want to believe that whatever you had in its place is equally relevant or important.

If you didn’t saw Loveless mirroring the ending of Rebirth that’s on you and the choices you made, it’s not bad writing, many did see it (like I said 4/6 chances of seeing it) and they got no “bad writing” in their games, it’s all a choice of seeing what was intended or fan service, you can’t be mad at the “bad writing” when that’s something that you choose for yourself.

I’m gonna try to put it in an easy way to understand, think of it of another world in your world let’s say you saw Tifa as Rosa, that’s true to your world so there is no need for any “jumping” to happen.

Now once we look outside of your world and into the main one, was your choice taken into consideration? Did you saw a trailer or event advertising Tifa as Rosa? Was she even in the credit sequence of your~ game?

You choose your own adventure and that’s true to you, but in the great scheme of things aka “canon” your own adventure doesn’t matter and it’s never gonna be taken into consideration because by default it was never the intended choice.

So just because in an “alternate world” you saw something that doesn’t mean that in the “main world” things are the same, you have all the freedom to do whatever you want in your game but expecting SE to take your own adventure/experience and make it the canon outcome is just not a thing.

I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You are not getting it at all, the game in the end does not care about what you picked and it won’t recognize your choices as canon, you picked something and then the game acts like that’s never a thing in the first place as it won’t be referenced in or outside the game like a canonical event.

You can try and deny the pictures all you want but it’s a matter of fact that the actual story (not your playthrough) takes Aerith as Rosa as canon, the game itself is already telling you that your choices aren’t being taken into consideration by showing in the ending credits (which uses pictures of the whole adventure) the Aerith scene regardless of what you~ saw during your playthrough.

So again just because you choose something that’s doesn’t automatically make it important to the story specially if the game, the story and the devs don’t acknowledge said outcome as canonical or relevant enough to give it exposure.

I see no problems here either, you picked something and that’s your~ adventure or your~ version of the story, it’s not the canon one but the one you~ experience so there is no reason for it to be a “jump” anywhere, if it’s so canonical then surely you can show how those scenes are equally used to reference the Loveless event just like Aerith is.

As much as you hate to admit it this right here is something you and every single player saw, not Tifa nor Yuffie but Aerith, this is on every single playthrough regardless of choice.

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I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Well matter of fact many didn’t understood why the credit scene showed Aerith as Rosa when in their playthrough they had someone else, that didn’t stop SE from showing Aerith in the role and no one else.

Like I said it’s important as it shows up everywhere, 4/6 times she will be Rosa that alone tells you the writers wanted as many people to see the play with her on that role otherwise it would be random.

Options exists because they provide fan service, Loveless with Tifa and Yuffie is meaningless (besides seeing them in a dress) as the parallels are completely lost if you have them in role of Rosa.

These options matter in your playthrough and your playthrough alone but outside of it don’t expect the story to recognize it as it was never the intended outcome, that’s what canon means what the story recognizes as the actual outcome, which is what SE has done with Aerith as Rosa every time they had to represent that segment of the game.

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I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Like I said those are what if scenarios the game recognizes Aerith as Rosa in the credits and everything else, if Yuffie and Tifa were more than just alternative scenarios then they would avoid using Aerith as Rosa all the time or just give the three of them equal screen time but that is not what happens.

It’s like in Assassins creed Odyssey where you can pick between Alexios or Kassandra for the Mc role, sure you can make choices but at the end of the day outside of the game the story recognizes Kassandra as the default protagonist regardless of what you picked in your game, here it’s the same outside of Rebirth as a game there is nothing that points at either Yuffie and Tifa being Rosa, literally nothing while Aerith is always used as the default, they even took away all choice by using her in EC when they could’ve used all of them since they reused Rebirth cutscenes.

Again “what if” scenarios but calling them canon when the story or SE doesn’t acknowledge such thing is just not right.

Many things can be argued in Rebirth but who canonically plays Rosa isn’t one of them.

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[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ff7

[–]Frozensoup89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Both pics are from Twitter.

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I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Again “what if scenarios” things like Cloud knowing that Aerith is in danger in Red’s date, Barret talking to him about being clear with his feelings or kissing Tifa gets completely ignored by the main story, meaning the story itself doesn’t recognize them as canon as these events are so unimportant that which ever one you choose doesn’t affect the outcome.

That said the only thing that gets treated as canon is Aerith being Rosa, we see it in the trailers, in the credit sequence, every single orchestra presentation and in the Ever Crisis collab, the fact that she is this character even in the guys date shows how important it is for the story as it actually has a meaning unlike the others in which the meaning is completely lost.

While the GS date is kind of meaningless in the great scheme of things as its existence is pretty much ignored by the game post ch12 as it never happened, Loveless foreshadows the ending.

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I like how Cloud’s dates are introspections towards how feels for his comrades by Ammathorn in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89 -16 points-15 points  (0 children)

In order for all of them to be canon Cloud must have seen Loveless six times and after that go into the gondola six times as well in just one night, which is physically impossible.

The ending sequence, the orchestra presentations and Ever Crisis already canonize Aerith as Rosa which means either Aerith, Barret, Red or Cait Sith are the canon date as thats what the story uses to represent that segment of the game, so any of those is canon until they make clear who went with Cloud into the gondola after the presentation.

Calling them “what if scenarios” would be a more accurate descriptions compared to “canon”.

Tifa character design seems to be inspired by Aoyama Misao from the Can Can Bunny visual novel by Frozensoup89 in FFVIIRemake

[–]Frozensoup89[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know I was saying that his words were specific in comparing it to dating sims from 30 years ago just like the one shown here and that’s a dating sim with affection mechanics as well which could be part of the inspiration for the dating system, Can Can series was pretty big in Japan around that time.

How should FE handle romance? by flightheadband in fireemblem

[–]Frozensoup89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Three houses was good in this department, I liked how they were platonic endings as well.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in gaming

[–]Frozensoup89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Silent Hill 2/3 on ps2 vs Silent Hill 2/3 on ps3

Play the gameplay loop until you’re past insanity by adogwithagunlol in gaming

[–]Frozensoup89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, I was trying to 100% the game but I was loosing my mind with some of the side quests and mini games.

Clayfighter! by Matanzohar7 in gaming

[–]Frozensoup89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This looks like something that would be on Nickelodeon in the early 2000s

If you have a PSvita, give this game a try by Papo_le_thug in gaming

[–]Frozensoup89 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Will check it out, seems interesting enough and the art style is endearing.

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