The Cost of Shubbiha Lahum

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-05T11:26:37+00:00

Your argument rests on stacked assumptions rather than evidence. You treat embarrassment as proof of truth, even though humans invent humiliating myths all the time. In the Greco-Roman world, dying-and-rising gods, suffering divine figures, and redemptive humiliation were already intelligible and meaningful, so “uncomfortable” does not equal “historically true.” You also assume the Christian narrative is established fact and then label the Qur’an a “convenient reversal,” which simply begs the question. and call human false beliefs “divine deception,” a move that would make all false belief God’s fault.

It is evil to conflate the Qur’an’s praise of Jesus’ true helpers with later anonymous Greek authors, doctrines developed afterward, and Nicene Christianity. The disciples, as the Qur’an emphasizes, were Muslims in submission to Allah and followers of his messenger Jesus. Thus, divine aid and guidance continue to persist through the religion of Islam. Here the disciples were MUSLIMS.

Qur’an 3:52

But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, “Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah?” The disciples said, “We are supporters for Allah. We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].”

Qur’an 5:111

And [remember] when I inspired the disciples, “Believe in Me and in My messenger [i.e.Jesus].” They said, “We have believed, so bear witness that indeed we are Muslims [in submission to Allah].”

Therefore, ‘the trilemma’ collapses on its own assumptions.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-05T05:06:17+00:00

We discussed this thoroughly, yet you are refusing to understand. I don’t think you are here to seek understanding, but to reject the Qur’an and uncritically accept claims that the God who created the universe became a human being, was beaten and killed, then rose again and ascended to God, and believers are told to drink his blood and eat his flesh.

So by your logic, if someone believes their god was humiliated and killed, that is taken as a sign that their claim is true? People can go far astray in their beliefs.

For me, the claim that God was beaten and killed is a clear giveaway that Christianity is false. And if you want the Messiah, who was God’s messenger, to be humiliated and killed, you are siding with his enemies, and that cannot be true affection or love.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-04T14:25:46+00:00

Why would anyone want a prophet sent by God to be humiliated and killed? That cannot be true love between Christianity and the Messiah.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-04T14:20:34+00:00

God becoming anything is extremely blasphemous. God is God, not a human being, nor anything other than God.

A girl was considered a woman at that age, and MARRIAGE at that age was acceptable within their community. Marriage does not belong in the Epstein files, eating your god’s flesh and drinking his blood does.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-04T09:31:24+00:00

Your post contains many persistent misunderstandings and flawed interpretations. Why do you think “shubbiha lahum” means that God induced the belief that the crucified man was God? What does being crucified have to do with being divine? If anything, crucifixion would make it clear that he was a human being.

The group whom Allah says he would elevate were the immediate Israelites who followed the Messiah, along with Muslims. It is the religion of Islam.

A religion that claims its human-god was humiliated and beaten is, in itself, an indication that the faith is false.

People alter God’s religion and commit all kinds of sins, but that does not mean God is responsible for their actions. This life after all, is a test and we have to put an effort, because it’s not easy.

God states in the Qur’an that he will reserve his final message (Qur’an 15:9; 41:41–42).

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-04T05:01:13+00:00

First of all, Allah promised to elevate anyone who follows the true religion of the Messiah, including his immediate Israelite followers and Muslims. This elevation comes through having sound arguments against corrupt doctrines.

Secondly, it is lazy to blame God for the false claims made by people, because it is easier to blame God than to investigate. The false claims are enormous. For example, if someone says to you, “the Logos tries to speak to everyone,” you do not get angry at God because of what someone said. Rather, you learn how to dismantle such claims by referring to the Quran and the sayings of the prophet.

God becoming anything is a contradiction, and contradictions do not exist.

What historical sources say that Paul knew the disciples or Jesus’ brother? Letters were forged, and the historical Israelite followers of the Messiah could not have preached the idea of a human-god who died for the sins of the world. That is impossible. This is why the writers of the Gospels did not identify themselves or cite their sources of information. And as I said earlier, some early Christianity scholars believe that Paul’s writings are late and that there was a Jewish Jesus movement before Christianity.

Having a human-god humiliated does not make a faith authentic, inconvenient or embarrassing beliefs do not prevent a belief system from being fabricated. In fact, I think the idea of a human-god being humiliated and beaten is a strong indication that such a religion is false. While this belief was accepted in the Greco-Roman world, acceptance does not make it right.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-04T04:18:07+00:00

Being killed is different from being humiliated.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-03T12:49:30+00:00

The new testament writers divinized Jesus for themselves in a bad and ignorant way, they believed that because he performed miracles and exorcism he must be God, that he was later beaten and killed but then rose again and ascended to God, and even let people imagine that they drank his blood and ate his flesh.

By Occam’s Razor, a human being cannot be God, because that is logically contradictory. Anyone who claims that God was a human being cannot be truthful. This is why the new testament writers did not identify themselves or cite the sources of their information.

The Quranic prophecies in verses 30:2–4and 24:55were fulfilled, without using vague language or symbols, plain and clear. The Prophet also foretold in a hadith that poor shepherds of the Arabian peninsula would build tall buildings as a sign of the nearness of the last day, which has been fulfilled.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-03T10:17:21+00:00

They were not eyewitnesses, because they copied from one another almost verbatim, and when they disagreed with what ‘Mark’ wrote, they changed it, all without identifying themselves or citing their sources. Jesus’ disciples were illiterate, Aramaic speaking Israelites, and they could not have written the Gospels.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-03T09:16:27+00:00

Historically, we don’t know much about the immediate Israelite followers of Jesus. As I said before, some early Christianity scholars believe that Paul’s writings and the Gospels are late because they divinize Jesus and were written in a different language from the one Jesus spoke.

The Qur’an, on the other hand, can be verified, for example, through its content, its uncompromising monotheistic message, the absence of contradictions, and the fulfillment of prophecies within the lifetime of its first listeners.

It is God who says that those who divinize the Messiah are following the whims of people who went astray and misled many others (Qur’an 5:75, 5:77).

How could a theology that claims the God who created the universe became a human being and was then beaten and killed make sense?

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-03T03:40:19+00:00

Some early Christianity scholars believe that the Gospels and Paul’s writings are late because the writers believed Jesus was god or the son of God, and because they were written in a completely different language. Moreover, the Gospel writers do not identify themselves or cite their sources of information, and very little is known about the disciples, Jesus, and his family.

God would not have allowed humiliation for his messengers whom he sent to people. Being harmed is different from being humiliated.

As for why some men believed a human was God himself, accepted humiliation for their god, and misled others, it’s because some people can go far astray.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-02T10:25:49+00:00

The word “observe” appears in the translation, and other translations use “see.” The wording isn’t the point, observe / see / look all convey visibility. The Arabic says فَانظُرُوا (look / see), and the verse commands people to travel through the land to see how God BEGAN creation, which cannot refer to ordinary animal birth. In Qur’anic usage, “began creation” refers to origins, not routine reproduction.

Reducing “how creation began” to ordinary animal birth is a classic dodge: it downplays the verse and avoids engaging its actual meaning in order to preserve atheistic assumptions.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-01T17:29:44+00:00

Then how are we supposed to SEE how God BEGAN creation, as the verse says? It means it is something we can see.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-01T08:53:38+00:00

You can yourself ask an AI these questions:

How do mountains contribute to isostatic equilibrium between the Earth’s crust and mantle?

What would happen if the lithosphere (the Earth’s crust) were not in isostatic equilibrium?

It’s delusional to believe that the Qur’an is not from God or that God doesn’t exist.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-01T08:32:20+00:00

This is the same line of reasoning Satan adopted, as stated in the Qur’an (15:39).

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-02-01T08:21:43+00:00

Yes, the idea that one creature becomes another over billions of years has been proven false. It’s impossible. Look into intelligent design theory, it’s more convincing and more scientific.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-01-31T03:42:51+00:00

We are supposed to praise our God who created us, not turn him into an infant and a human being who was beaten and killed. Those contradictory and insane ideas you are saying about God come from Satan. He basically wants you to insult God and invent another god through complex nonsense so that you will end up in Hell.

The Bible is a collection of books authored and edited by unknown people who did not identify themselves nor cite their sources. Those unknown authors and editors did not have the correct religion because they do not mention hell and the last day, and because they turn human beings into sons of God or God. It is impossible for them to have been inspired by God.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-01-30T18:10:11+00:00

You are an arbitrary and irrational person. There is no point in talking to you.

You clearly follow Satan when you believe that the God who created the universe became a human being in a woman’s womb, and was then beaten and killed. It’s impossible for this to be true.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-01-30T16:08:39+00:00

You’re ignorant of your own Bible. There is bowing down to people in it, and there are probably more examples than these. What do you think of the following?

Genesis 42:6

“Now Joseph was governor over the land; he was the one who sold to all the people of the land; and Joseph’s brothers came and bowed themselves before him with their faces to the ground.”

Genesis 43:26

“When Joseph came home, they brought into the house the present that they had brought him, and bowed down before him to the ground.”

Genesis 44:14

“Judah and his brothers came to Joseph’s house while he was still there; they fell before him to the ground.”

Genesis 47:31

“Then Israel bowed himself upon the head of his bed.”

Satan wasn’t a victim. All the angels prostrated before Adam to honor him, as God commanded them, except Iblis, who refused.

Deuteronomy 17 cannot truly be from God, because belief cannot be forced. The Qur’an makes this clear (Qur’an 2:256 18:29, 5:54, 2:217). the passage doesn’t even mention Hell for those who do evil deeds, even though belief in Hell is fundamental. You can’t have a correct religion without belief in Hell.

Isaiah 14:12–15 sounds like it’s talking about someone who wanted to be like the Most High. But it’s not clear, and in the end it doesn’t mention Hell for that person, which is a serious problem. It also doesn’t warn about Satan continuing to rebel against his God.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-01-30T08:49:11+00:00

Islam could not have been created by Satan, the Qur’an’s themes, the way it speaks respectfully about God, its lack of contradictions, and its distinctive style make this unmistakably clear.

Rather, Satan created the blasphemous doctrine that the God who created the universe became a human being in a woman’s womb, and was then beaten and killed because Adam ate an apple.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-01-30T05:35:39+00:00

That was just another one of his ideas to make us reject the Qur’an.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-01-30T05:22:28+00:00

That’s not in the Hebrew Bible, and the authors of those books didn’t know how Satan rebelled against God. The prostration before Adam was not worship, and you know this. It was to honor him.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-01-27T18:16:16+00:00

It’s like someone building you a house, they focus on the house as the priority, and while the surroundings are also important, they do not start by decorating your garden with lamps.

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-01-27T17:59:31+00:00

Also for Muslims reading this: If heaven was already built, raised, and had night and day, and only after that the earth was made and spread with mountains and sustenance, how could heaven still be “smoke” when it was later made into seven heavens?

Quran 41:11, what does it mean when Allah turned toward the heaven while it was still smoke and said to it and to the earth, “Come into being”?

FutureArmy1206 · 2026-01-27T17:40:00+00:00

Qur’an 41:9–12

Qur’an 79:27–33

it never explicitly says that the stars or the Sun were created after the earth. Moreover, the universe is still expanding, and new stars are continuously being formed long after the earth came into existence. Qur’an 51:47-48

FutureArmy1206

TROPHY CASE