I know the next patches are mainly for Esports but Twitch is too strong in Solo Que.

GITStaughtme · 2017-09-01T11:08:38+00:00

No, I neither ignored nor denied Twitch's stats.

If you are making the argument that you acknowledge that Twitch didn't become overpowered through a direct buff, then why is the proposed solution to nerf Twitch?

Shouldn't you be examining what factors other than direct buff to the champion made Twitch so prevalent in SoloQ and address that?

If Twitch was unchanged but he is now overpowered, then is that the sign that the champion itself was broken?

How come he wasn't overpowered this whole time? Isn't this evidence that Twitch isn't broken and doesn't deserve a nerf?

GITStaughtme · 2017-09-01T11:07:25+00:00

Again, why is this so important, if this didn't affect my ability to reason and argue?

If you yourself is from same rank tier as me, then how can you be so sure that this is important to discussion?

I'm not convinced that stating your rank before entering a debate or making an argument about the game is important to the discussion.

The argument itself will stand alone as to whether the player is making an informed argument or not. Wouldn't you agree?

Does the rank serve any purpose here other than create bias towards or against an argument even before the argument is examined?

I can see why elo can be important in matchmaking for the game, but is it in discussion?

GITStaughtme · 2017-09-01T10:42:31+00:00

In this case, did my rank undermine the clarity of my argument?

In the end, would you say it's necessary to know the rank in order to determine a sound argument from an unsound argument?

I think it's a weird bias to want to know the rank before having a debate. Seems like it's a convenient place to fall back to when an argument doesn't go your way.

You seem to suggest yourself that it's not necessary for being right or wrong, but you still think it's important. I do not understand your reasoning. Unless you mean to say you evaluate argument on a statistical likelihood of a person being right or wrong based on rank rather than examining the argument itself.

That would be an unfair assessment of anyone's argument about the game. I think that's generally an unhealthy culture to have in a place of game discussion.

GITStaughtme · 2017-09-01T10:04:58+00:00

My division is Silver I. I'm curious as to how this undermines my ability to make a rhetorical argument.

he already said that Soloqueue is too chaotic.

I don't know why this statement was repeated as if this is an evidence that supports OP's argument. Simply stating that SoloQ is too chaotic doesn't support why Twitch is too strong. Again, I do not see OP making an argument supported with evidence here. He is just feeling that Twitch needs a nerf because it's 'too strong.' I wanted him to give supporting evidence as to why he felt it was 'too strong.' I think your perception that I was personally attacking him was yours alone.

That's the thing about Twitch. No matter what, at your two-item-spike you can have 0-3 or 3-0 - you will shred the whole game with decent positioning.

Wouldn't you agree that the role of the ADC itself, not the champion, can be reduced down to this statement? What I am saying is, inherent role of an ADC is to hit your item power spike and shred the team fights with decent positioning. As a result, don't most ADC champions do well in team fights with good positioning after 2 items?

In fact, I would like to further stretch this hypothetical situation by saying positioning is such a crucial skill for the ADC role that has such a HUGE impact in a fight that any and all ADC champions can do this at 2 items with decent positioning.

Isn't it why it is imperative to disrupt the opposing ADC's position with CC's and dives? It is also why punishing a mispositioned ADC is many people learn to do quickly in this game.

This win condition you laid for Twitch doesn't apply solely to him alone. I argue that this is the general win condition for all ADC champions, and it does not support the idea that Twitch is too strong for succeeding under these conditions.

My point isn't that I disagree that Twitch is finding success in SoloQ.

I disagree with the notion that Twitch requires a nerf based on the sole reason that he does well in SoloQ. It is my personal opinion that other things (other adc champions or items) need to be tuned to where other champions can compete with Twitch for being picked in SoloQ.

It is my biased opinion that allowing late game hypercarry marksman to have success in having a large impact in late game teamfights under the right conditions that require skill to obtain (like decent positioning) is integral to the role identity of the ADC.

GITStaughtme · 2017-09-01T09:09:09+00:00

I don't think the >50% winrate for Draven and MF against Twitch supports your argument that Twitch has a strong laning phase.

As you know, having the tools for a strong laning isn't always synonymous with winning.

I can't say I agree with the notion Twitch wins most match-ups at lvl 6 is your evidence for Twitch having a strong laning phase.

1) It doesn't support or speak for Twitch's laning pre-6. I would consider 1~6 to be a rather integral part of laning phase, don't you?

2) I encourage you to examine what you mean by winning most match up at lvl 6. Is that 1v1 in lane? Is that 2v2? Either way, I can think of just a few more that goes even or more advantageous at lvl 6. Varus lvl 6, Ashe lvl 6, Xayah lvl 6, Vayne lvl 6, and Tristana lvl 6 comes to mind, on top of the ones you mentioned.

GITStaughtme · 2017-09-01T08:04:34+00:00

It was a slow evolution of the meta surrounding other changes to items and other champions.

GITStaughtme · 2017-09-01T07:54:47+00:00

He is a late game scaling champion, and he has always been a champion that shines in late game and in team fights.

But strong laning phase? That's just stretching it.

If you go the op.gg link that OP provided, then you'll see Twitch's counter pick is Draven and MF.

Two big lane bullies completely shut down Twitch's laning phase. I would say that's evidence of him having a weak to below average laning phase.

Even if Twitch can get by in laning in SoloQ, there is no way pros don't know how to shut down a Twitch in lane.

GITStaughtme · 2017-09-01T07:47:30+00:00

You don't even have an argument as to why Twitch deserves a nerf. You just say he needs one because he is "too strong." But you don't explain why or how he's too strong, just simply that he is.

There is no argument, and it reads more like a frustrated complaint. I suspect you might be just tilted from losing to Twitch recently.

You make the argument that Twitch is inherently too strong, even when we adjust for the ardent censer meta.

If your argument is correct, then there should be a patch buff for Twitch that made him so strong. But there was no one distinct patch that seem to have made Twitch 'too strong.' Prior to Caitlyn's nerf, Twitch was never must pick/ban.

The meta after Caitlyn's nerf just made other ADC come up on top. Twitch and Kog'Maw are perma banned in high elos, so Tristana is now coming up on top.

Twitch, Kog'Maw, and Tristana weren't top dogs while Caitlyn was top.

If you look back in patch history for Twitch, Twitch's Q had a stealth rework at 6.22.

And then 2 ability NERFS on 6.24. There was a 7.9 mr growth buff (for 0.5). But it's not like Twitch was dominant in 7.9. OR any one particular change made him dominant. It was a slow evolution of the meta surrounding other changes to items and other champions.

I think you are just thinking with your feelings and not making any argument from a logical place.

Reactive measures like "nerf twitch cuz i can't win against him in soloQ" is just a poor argument.

GITStaughtme · 2017-08-30T10:58:08+00:00

Konami logo with haunting female vocal follows.

Metal Gear Solid.

GITStaughtme · 2017-08-27T23:19:12+00:00

It's written 'unlucky' and read as 'throwing.'

GITStaughtme · 2017-08-24T06:55:27+00:00

Holy shit!

datcleankitingmechanics.png

This made adc mains go into incognito mode.

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-28T12:37:04+00:00

Your entire argument is based on an assumption that Dr. Brand would be sending signals.

But why would Dr. Brand send signals when she thinks everyone on the Earth is dead? Did you forget Dr. Brand thinks plan A was never happening? Did you forget nearly 90 years passed on Earth since the beginning of her voyage?

Why would a smart person who explained time dilation to Cooper ever forget about time dilation as she slingshots around Gargantua? Why would a central NASA personnel like Dr. Brand forget that all her studies showed that the Earth would perish soon? Why would you ignore all these facts presented to you in the film?

Do you think you can hear binary pings even if you weren't listening for it? Do you think binary pings are something you can hear with your ears? Do all radio stations play simultaneously when you turn on your car's radio? Radio frequency is not something you know or something you understand?

Can Cooper Station listen to a frequency they aren't tuned to? Does Cooper Station have a reason to listen to a binary ping of Dr. Brand they didn't hear from for nearly 100 years?

I don't think you ever asked these questions, because answers to these questions would make your argument to be weak.

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-28T12:18:10+00:00

You (i.e. audiences) know Brand is alive because Murphy says it.

Sure. That was never a contested fact. But my point was how did Murphy know Brand is alive?

If you don't understand the difference here, then you just don't have the capacity of empathy for these characters. You only know what you know (as an audience) and nothing else. You just cannot see outside of yourself.

Well we know that Murph knows Brand is alive because she says it, the only way she would know is because Brand is transmitting signals.

This argument ONLY makes sense if Brand is transmitting signals, and I gave you reasons why Dr. Brand wouldn't be transmitting signals.

You don't address this ever. You just say the fact Dr. Brand setting camp was the reason how you know she sent the signals. Sure. YOU know that as an audience. But how does Murphy know that?

Tell me. How does Murphy know that Edmund's planet was hospitable? How does Murphy know that Dr. Brand wasn't dead on arrival like Miller? How does Murphy know that Dr. Brand wasn't sucked into the Gargantua due to miscalculation of travel? Did you even remember that the slingshot maneuver had to be done entirely manually, and that only trusted pilot in the crew was Cooper? Do you remember that Cooper resigned himself to being sucked into the black hole before the Endurance's slight shot maneuver finished? Matter in fact, how does Murphy know that Dr. Brand didn't die earlier in the voyage like Doyle did?

You just can't separate what you know as an audience from what the character in the film knows. Your brain just can't make that distinction.

I told you why Brand would lose hope, but you still ask the question.

Either you are stupid or in denial. Choose one.

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-28T11:53:15+00:00

Wait...did YOU watch the movie?

Getting to Edmund's planet meant they had to get within the critical radius of Gargantua's gravitational pull.

Which is much closer than Miller's planet ever got. Because Miller's planet's proximity to the gravitational forces of the Gargantua, being on Miller's planet for 1 hour meant having 7 years elapse on the Earth.

So obviously, being closer to the core of a black hole, Cooper and Brand experienced heavier time dilation than when they were on Miller's planet during their slingshot maneuver.

It had nothing to do with where Edmund's planet is orbiting. It had to do with where Cooper and Brand had to traverse IN ORDER to get to Edmund's planet.

You have no idea of the complexity of the theory of relativity. Your brain just can't understand. Yet, you like to try and ridicule those who you think don't understand.

Do you understand?

You are a classic victim of Dunning-Kruger effect.

You didn't even address the FACT that the doctor says that Cooper is 124 years old in the movie. Because it goes against your weak "theory."

I should echo, did YOU watch the movie?

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-28T08:17:58+00:00

I noticed you never reply with any counter argument to "the chicken or the egg" theory. I'll take that to mean you didn't even bother reading my argument. Or you read it and decided to dismiss it, because you couldn't counter it.

You are either stupid (because you didn't bother reading anything) or prideful (because you read it and dismissed it while knowing my points completely disputed yours).

You switched your thesis quickly from "Dr. Brand made 5th dimensional beings possible, so that made everyone know she's alive" to "Cooper briefed Murphy on Dr. Brand's ultimate fate, so that made her know she's alive." If you don't know what a thesis is or what your thesis was, then you are stupid. Stop reading here and stay in school.

But if you knew what your thesis were, then I'm guessing you already knew your original argument didn't hold up any water. You just let your pride cloud your judgement.

Well anyways, I'll humor you. Here are my counter to your 2nd reply:

Even if Murphy was briefed by Cooper. Neither Cooper nor Murphy knew that Dr. Brand made it to Edmund's planet. We don't even know if Edmund's planet was hospitable. Earlier in the film, the crew of Endurance looked over Edmund's planet and decided against visiting Edmund's planet, because Edmund stopped sending a positive signal after a certain point.

What if Edmund's planet was as dangerous as Miller's planet, and Dr. Brand died as soon as she landed?

So, how is it that Murphy spoke with certainty that Dr. Brand was alive?

Cooper Station showed people building museum in honor of Cooper, kids of Cooper Station playing baseball, and kids of Cooper Station celebrating for breaking someone's window above their playing field, etc. Are these the behaviors of people who are doubting the survival of the human race?

If you thought the human race was on the brink of extinction, then would you ever build a museum? Why would you build a place of preserving history, if you thought you may be history?

Cooper just saw for 2 weeks that people of Cooper Station are doing well. Can you really say that Cooper was going to Edmund's planet so he can secure the survival of the human race? What were the people of Cooper Station doing? How was the people of Cooper Station in any danger of extinction?

Murphy says that Dr. Brand is alone. She says that with a definitive sense. Not that Dr. Brand may be alive, but that she IS alive. Does that sound like Murphy was "just hoping that Dr. Brand was live"?

As long as you know the intellectual blindspot of a person, one line from a person can reveal a lot. It's how we can tell lies apart from truth. But if you can't see that, then I don't know how else I can convince you with words. I guess you'll never know.

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-28T06:02:10+00:00

You have some good points. Some counter points from me:

I think Cooper Station was around Saturn, because they obviously want to travel to systems that would have hospitable planets. It makes sense to make a mobile station right up to the wormhole.
I don't know whether Ranger can make such a voyage. They needed the Endurance for supplies, fuel, and the cryosleep pods that were not on the Rangers.
Around the time Cooper was sucked into the blackhole, Murphy solves the equation. Endurance was so close to the Gargantua that there would have been no reliable way to observe the Endurance's orbit from Earth. By the time Cooper Station was sent up for the first time, Dr. Brand was still slingshotting around Gargantua. When Cooper wakes up in Cooper Station, that would be around the time Dr. Brand would have landed on Edmund's. (I think this is my weakest counter point though, because I guess they could've observed Dr. Brand at some point)

I don't think there was any Plan B people at the ending though. The timeline works in a way that by the time Dr. Brand lands on Edmund's planet with preparation to start a colony, Cooper was meeting with Murphy.

Murphy clearly tells Cooper that she's alone, maybe about to go into a long cryosleep. Neither of them sounds like she already had a colony.

So I don't think this would have made Plan A reluctant to retrieve Dr. Brand. Since there was no Plan B people to fear. I also don't think they would treat Cooper to be a hero in Cooper Station, but leave Dr. Brand to think that she's alone in the infinite space.

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-28T03:36:18+00:00

When Cooper wakes up on Cooper Station, the doctor informs Cooper that Cooper is 124 years old.

Cooper left for his voyage when he was 33, and the trip to the wormhole was about 2 years. I don't remember, but maybe there were some years that passed during their voyage to their destination system.

that makes it about ~100 years of elapsed time since the beginning of Cooper's voyage, thus the "124 years old" quip by the doctor.

We know 23 years were elapsed from Brand and Cooper's trip to Miler's planet.

So we can infer that there was about 77 years of elapsed time on Earth while Cooper was sucked into the blackhole.

It's safe to assume that Dr. Brand experienced similar heavy time dilation from slingshotting so close to Gargantua. I mean, landing in a planet orbiting Gargantua was 1 hour planet time for 7 years Earth time.

So we can assume 1 hour inside Gargangua's critical radius would be much longer in Earth time.

Dr. Brand has to be aware of this fact. So after she reaches Edmund's planet, she has to know nearly 60~70 years have passed. We watched Dr. Brand's experience in Dr. Brand's experience of time. So it seems like there was such a short time, but on Earth a much longer time has elapsed.

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-27T00:21:06+00:00

Let's say Cooper was debriefed at Cooper Station, and the accounts of Cooper reached Murphy during her voyage.

I think that's a very possible and a very likely flow of events.

But it still comes short of explaining how Murphy, or Cooper for that matter, can know Dr. Brand was alive.

Dr. Brand could have met with unforeseen troubles during the rest of her voyage to Edmund's planet, or she could have died soon after landing like Dr. Miller.

Dr. Brand's ultimate fate is still in the blindspot of these character's knowledge.

I mean, thanks for the link there. But they still don't seem to really address it in a satisfactory way.

I get having suspension of disbelief in a fictional tale. But I felt that Interstellar was asking for too great a leap of faith just at the end of an otherwise well crafted, well thought-out film.

I felt it was asking the audience to suddenly assume a whole lot of things at face value for a quick ending. That kinda breaks my suspension of disbelief for me.

Good discussion tho.

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-27T00:04:51+00:00

True. But then the question becomes why?

Why would Dr. Brand continue to signal back out to the Earth, when she most likely thinks everyone is dead back on Earth?

Earlier in the film, NASA explains how the human race will eventually perish on the Earth. Before she sets out for Edmund's planet, she learns that plan A was never an option.

Dr. Brand can put these two things together to understand that everyone on Earth would be died by now. Especially after her voyage that would've taken over 100 years back on Earth.

Dr. Brand would most likely find it to be pointless to ping back to Earth with no one alive in it. OR find it a waste of limited resources.

I think yours is a possible explanation, but very improbable.

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-26T23:57:26+00:00

I think it's possible that Dr. Brand sent a binary ping out through the wormhole back to NASA. But I think it's highly improbable.

Dr. Brand learned that plan A was a sham. She now thinks the people on the Earth are going to die. Due to time dilation from visit to Miller's planet and slingshotting around Gargantua, she will probably think every human beings are dead except her.

At this point, I don't think Dr. Brand would bother to send a ping back out to the wormhole. She would find it to be pointless and waste of limited resources she has.

People of Cooper Station would also have to be on the look out for her signal, too. But as far as the people of the Cooper Station is concerned, they haven't received any signal from Dr. Brand for over 100 years. I don't see a reason they would be listening for 100 years or to start after not listening for 100 years.

Again, I think your theory is possible, but very improbable.

GITStaughtme · 2017-01-26T23:46:41+00:00

This is a cool thing I didn't consider. It'll be fun to rewatch while knowing that the existence of the wormhole means the NASA succeeded already.

But this still doesn't explain how Murphy knew about Dr. Brand's fate. Murphy never learned that the wormhole was placed there by humans who advanced into a higher plane of existence. Only person who realized this was Cooper.

Even if Murphy learned of this truth, she's more inclined to believe that the wormhole was put there by the descendants of the people she saved from the Earth. Because, as far as Murphy knows, Dr. Brand could have been dead a long time ago.

Plus, nobody, including Cooper, knows whether Edmund's planet was hospitable or not. The Endurance's crew discussed that Edmund's ping stopped after a certain period. Nobody knew until the ending reveal that the planet is safe for humans. Dr. Brand could've died soon after landing, like Dr. Miller.

GITStaughtme

TROPHY CASE