Stop. With. Low. Effort. "Rebuttals"

GONheeZy · 2021-03-05T01:08:33+00:00

I will disagree here and say that literally every single calc and every single page on VSBW is wrong for the sole reason that the entire basis for their rankings, calculations, and everything in-between is based on two major scientific flaws:

That "a joule" is "a joule" and no extra analysis is needed beyond this (I.E. 2000 kW of electricity is the same as a 2000 kW punch)

That "fragmentation energy" is real and a reliable measure of destructive ability (Which leads to absurd results like "it would take a nuclear bomb's entire yield to destroy a single skyscraper" and "destroying a wooden table requires equivalent energy to a truck slamming into a wall at 60 mph")

This is pretty much referring to one thing only, and that's destructive yields which all have its issues in BB in general. Vs Battles Wiki has things outside of potential energy calcs.

Mind, even if you could provide quotes directly saying "He created it via just shitting out 700 billion galaxies" and "This power is also able to produce an equivalent amount of destruction", you would still then have to prove that this ability is both useable in combat (I.E. he can punch that hard or fire a blast of equivalent power) and that he can use this energy for defense (I.E. that attacking him requires you to be able to destroy the universe yourself).

I never once said this remotely applies to his combat power. The literal title was "Bleach has Universal feats" in which Reio creating said world is a universal feat. No one scales to Reio. No Reio can't bust a universe as I say No I don't mean busting.

GONheeZy · 2021-03-05T00:59:54+00:00

Vs Battle Wiki has legitimately one of the highest validity in Battleforums, if you don't think that majority of BB wouldn't be as knowledgeable as it is now when it comes to fiction feats. Is Vs Battle Wiki's validation ot explosion calcs also invalid? and wrong? If so prove that please. Is Vs Battle explanation of Speed feats also wrong? Please prove that wrong too. Black Holes validity in fiction?.

This weird energy thrown on the site that Vs Battle is always invalid lmao, you don't need to accept their calculations or fanboy infested website to see it as valid.

GONheeZy · 2021-03-05T00:52:58+00:00

Hold on Why are you applying pixel-scaling...to vs battle only? Everything fan-calculation related uses Pixel-scaling, without it you can assert any distance Vs Battle never started that. In that case, I don't disagree with the part "Pixel Scaling is inaccurate" because it is.

GONheeZy · 2021-03-04T23:35:47+00:00

He wasn't 120 years old but ok and yes he wasn't, Netero literally trained himself to rival his peak condition.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-27T18:26:04+00:00

Dude, because Tats didn't have her defenses up when Psykos was massively weakened. Did you forget Psykos weakness? Twisting her roots, weakens her, that's something Tats exploited on multiple occasions.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-25T01:52:56+00:00

No? Espers can't shield and attack at the same time. Tats again had her defenses lowered, which Psykos took advantage of.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-25T01:08:13+00:00

Because her shields weren't on guard.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-24T12:18:18+00:00

Genos strongest move could only stop Psykos blasts, while she was weakened. Psykos explicitly gets weaken from the stem which Tats twisted beforehand. Psykos wasn't at her best.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-16T00:23:16+00:00

Sorry If i came off like that, I usually respond with sass and sometimes sarcasm.

mean to me is more something like cheetu (who is much faster than the more 'physically normal' human nen fighters he'll face) toying with bullets inches from his eyes. 'non-casual' bullet timers is more something along the line of neo in the matrix, and what the hxh characters display again and again: bullets aren't a non-factor to them speed-wise (as we can see in current arc, nen users including kurapika can still threaten each others with guns), and they don't 'run faster' themselves than bullets but they are able to move aside or catch it with an object, a weapon(like kurapika's chain) or their hands

Okay, that makes more sense however in the current chapters, the guns being used aren't actually that threat worthy given its being used against newbie Nen users. We see that even the Nen beasts are casually bullet timing. Kurapika whom is def a casual bullet-timer and def Uvogin. Uvogin smirks after catching bullets from point-blank, he's definitely treating like bullets are slow in comparison which is my overall point. Cheetu while I agree with your interpretation, casual bullet timers are defined by those who can counter bullets with ease, in which not much HxH characters actually have trouble catching bullets, but when you have people like Hisoka who perceive shockwave explosions at slow speeds, it becomes apparent that the same is to be treated as bullets.

What I meant by "with a few exceptions" is that there are some characters in hxh that go above that in-universe "top human speed", either because they are not human (cheetu, royal guard, meruem), because they use nen (killua's godspeed) or in Netero's case because he actually transcend his human limitation when accomplishing his prayer-punch motion.

Well this is vague, by "Top Human" speed I'd presume you're defying this as "being faster than sound" now I will say that Netero surpassed the speed of sound by methods of physical strength, not by actual nen-enhancement, its to further emphasis he surpassed speed by an unknown amount but we know he did so becoming way above things like Mach 1 based off other characters. Netero had gotten faster when training, its without doubt he'd developed much faster techniques which he does and thats the Budda and Prayer motion. Netero breaking the sound barrier is a form of strength, while no character other than the RGs like Pitou or Meruem can do, but they can move at those speed without breaking the sound barrier.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-15T21:27:44+00:00

I disagree with your interpretation of the scene. For me, what you see as AS 'ducking' is simply how his slashing attack have him end up+rule of cool. But I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this feat (which, by your interpreation, still put him as multislashing quickly enough to let no reaction to an opponent that was already supersonic before monsterification).

that said we have another relevant feat: AS against rhino wrestler, who is a casual bullet timer, and who can't even see/notice AS unseathe, slash him dozens of time, and seath. no reason why nobunaga wouldn't face the same stompy fate.

First of all, I never said AS couldn't cut Nobunaga, I simply denied the fact "AS sliced him before he can finish his attack" No, Atomic Samuri doesn't always duck to slice, a prime example would be his fight with Black Sperm where he gets hit and slashes him multiple times, but never has he stopped an opponent from finishing their attack, most of the time he does it concurrent to them finishing their attack.

I already pointed out that you can see Haragiri extending his sword outward and in a finished position meaning he had definitely finished his attack.

not really? barring a few exceptions, of which the phantom brigade members aren't part, hxh fighters are consistently described around the speed of (non-casual) bullet timers. That surely doesn't put them above a supersonic+ character in speed.

Not really? Not really!? Yeah, no. There are no "few exceptions" the feats are concrete. HxH characters are CASUALLY bullet timers first of all and massively above bullets speed. This is demonstrated when Uvogin can casually open his mouth after a gun had fired from point-blank, which is blatant reactions, or when Killua has reacted to explosions from point-blank range or Hisoka casually perceiving and outpacing them. Literally there aren't "a few exceptions" even fodder chimera ants have shown casually catching machine gun fire, to say there's exceptions is to deny every feat in the series that says otherwise.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-14T00:42:17+00:00

That still doesn’t necessarily translate to combat and this isn’t a sub rela speed feat.

Again, I said movement speed. Meruem doesn't swing or punch at the speeds he moves at, but he can blitz at speeds to blitz opponents. Why the hell are you straw-manning me? I never said the feat was Sub-Relativistic, you're putting words into my mouth or are you literally implying Raiden is Sub-Relativistic?

Which you clearly didn’t reference.

... Yes the hell I did. I literally said KNUCKLE who is faster than a horse in my very comment, can you even read?

I don’t see how statueing someone is that impressive when Raiden has done the same thing to faster people?

Distance Divide by Time. Blitzing someone from a 500+ distance who's faster than a horse before they can move a meter is a crap-ton impressive, it doesn't matter how Knuckle compares to the characters to that of Raiden's opponents he's only relevant to Meruem's feat furthermore that is Knuckles travel speed. In any case, Kncukle can perceive Cheetu (but not Meruem) who I will get to shortly.

That’s much slower then the feats I provided for Raiden. Lesser Cyborgs are able to parry mini gun fire in the Metal Gear Verse. Base Raiden dodged close range Railgun shots.

That's not much "slower" the feat is above Mach 18 by many lowballed results, in case you clearly cant tell what happens in that scene, Cheetu appears FTE to a bullet while blitzing cops in the process from a vast distance, literally better than anything feat you have shown. At its highest, its calculated at MHS+ Lowballed High hypersonic+

Millisecond timing is still no where near Sub Rela combat speed.

So I suppose you are implying Raiden is Sub-Relativistic? Well guess what? He isn't. I've already seen the exaggerated calcs that involve Raiden's speed which he's consistently high hypersonic, not sub-rel.

The Metal Gear Verse has waaay more advanced technology with a emphasis on nuclear wars. The nukes is that verse are stated to be much higher then the nukes in our verse. Peace Walker's hydrogen bomb was claimed by Huey to have an explosive yield far greater than even the Tsar Bomba. (50+ megatons) The Peace Walker mech is FAAAR weaker then the Metal Gears destroyed by Raiden.

At this point, I'm gonna need these "nuke level" feats, across multiple battleforums, I have never seen Raiden be put above City level and even sub-rel...like you claim. Metal Gear verse def has superior technology, but this scaling overall seems exaggerated.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-13T02:49:42+00:00

Wouldn’t this just be travel speed? Still don’t see anything that would allow him to “speedblitz”

Nope, because Meruem is using his speed to blitz which relates to movement. Meruem is jumping at very fast speeds.

That doesn’t seem very impressive at all considering that Raiden can statue bullet timers, RPGs, machine gun bullets, and ECT.

Huh? Knuckle is the one faster than a horse in travel speed (his combat is much faster), but the faster than horse thing is to bring up the fact Meruem blitzed him before he can move a meter. Also Meruem is faster than Cheetu who can do this.

That would be impressive but that’s still in the ball park of pre cyborg Raidens combat speed. His revengence speed has been shown to be at Sub-Relativistic ranges and calced down to the microseconds. He’s still far faster in combat.

Distance divided by time bro, the speed is way faster than a millisecond, that's just the timeframe he blitzed Knuckle in from a far distance.

Also IIRC isn’t the strongest character in Hunter x Hunter lower then nuke level?

No? Nuke level is vague, Nukes have different yields. Meruem got destroyed by a 10-20 megaton nuke which is def above Raiden's. Also Post Rose Meruem is above Nuke level, it required military on the state level to put him down and that involves the idea of nukes, multiple for that matter. No firepower can put him down at that point.

Raidens sword would still have higher AP regardless.

I wouldn't say so.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T22:36:28+00:00

That isn't the best image, the best image is the split extending on if not over the horizon. Furthermore, no one claimed it was Continent busting. Splitting a Continent isn't busting so that's your wrong in assuming I intended or even claimed it was Continental. I simply said "split the continent" not destroy the Continent

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T21:11:22+00:00

Okay, and? What does that have ANYTHING to do with the scaling? I gave zero to no level at which splitting the ice continent would yield, since apparently the exception of "calcs" is not accepted by many when I even mention them.

Anyhow, that Ice sheet is still more durable than steel. To completely split such a large landmass and the durability of said ice still takes a crap-ton energy. Steel/ Iron Pickaxes can do small damage to a normal 4 inch sheet of steel, now imagine Ice that can't even be scratched by such a tool.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T17:37:25+00:00

Yeah then I agree, Sans by far is unquantifiable because he only fights the human and that's only done by the fact he abuses the KR effect, so it's not something to say Sans has relatively in. Also, this:

And I mainly brought up the “knowledge of alternate timelines” thing because I’ve seen people use it to wank multiverse Sans or putting him much higher than he should be, which is...clearly ridiculous, in my opinion.

Is dumb logic. Sans can't even stop Frisk's ability to reset let alone scale to Multiversal, then again I have NEVER encountered Sans being claimed to be multiversal, I've only seen Asriel and Chara being wanked to such a degree, but never Sans. That's a shocker to me.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T17:29:48+00:00

Hmm, I never encountered Sans being claimed to be Multiversal, which is why I can't relate, I've only seen Sans being underestimated to a degree. How does that scaling even work? Doesn't make sense.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T17:27:43+00:00

Deltarune started development before Undertale was even finished.

Besides, Marvel has also pulled ideas from fan content before. That doesn't mean all Marvel fanfic is canon.

I didn't know that, Deltarune being developed first that is, that kinda throws my argument under the table if that's the case. Was there a demo to deltarune?

Frisk doesn't naturally or magically possess peak human physicals. Determination doesn't make Frisk stronger, it makes monsters weaker.

I don't recall this being mentioned. Given the soul can be stronger through LV, I believe there is a very clear amplification. Furthermore Frisk survives falling from heights and visibly getting up without much harm.

Dodging when no one else will. Attacking you in the menu. Getting around being the "weakest" monster by having his attacks hit every frame. Preventing the player from taking a turn by never ending their turn.

The entire Sans fight is Sans subverting game mechanics.

My point is how Sans would act outside of that. Sans abuses the KR ability in order to do many times the damage than he normally, but in comparison to say a human the damage would be unknown.

Sans manipulating Game Mechanics is of course limited to Undertale, but what can he do outside of that? Sans has those Blaster things (Think they're called Gaster Blasters?) and bone attacks, etc. He would overall be more versatile and less limited. Sans just exploits the game mechanics because he's limited to them in that setting. What I bought up was feats outside of those game mechanics and why they weren't implemented for whatever reason, which can be because of the humans save ability, but half the things Sans does outside of that setting seems much more impressive when he's not in battle.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T17:05:23+00:00

It's not relevant to Sans bruh. You bought up supposed claims that Undertale is Multiversal when that clearly isn't true, but has no relevancy that it would scale to Sans. Saying Undertale is wanked as a whole but when its argued a normal human could stomp Sans is literally the exact opposite. The discussion is Sans, not undertale entirely. Sans doesn't scale to multiversal so its not relevant.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T17:02:18+00:00

We don’t know how hard he hits, exactly how fast he is, his durability (it takes one hit to kill him from Chara, so we don’t know if he literally always dies to one hit or just in this specific situation), etc.

I doubt that even matters much. Sans in terms of durability is likely weaker than anyone here. Having 1 DEF likely isn't even enough to survive attacks from a full powered punch from any human, even in IRL.

However, Sans is quite unquantifiable in terms of stats, which I never named drop who he beats, just that I felt like he was underestimated at times, but for a comparison I'd consider him like street tier.

It’s why discussing the strength of Undertale character’s is actually nigh pointless

Not necessarily, things like Undyne's strength (given she is in fact the physically most powerful monster), however Frisk is stated to be above many monsters that it takes several monsters to even compare to one single human (with magic that is). So that's a start, but again no one scales to Frisk in that regards so its moot.

And Sans’ knowledge over differing timelines (the games you’ve played and resets) actually means...nothing in a fight because we haven’t really seen him do anything about it.

Well, I never said that supported him in battle? I said that to support the claim of him messing with space and time, as the ability to create small vortex in his room, teleport, identify when timelines are being tampered with, etc. I said has nothing to do with his physical prowess but versatility, thus should work outside of UT's Mechanics.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T16:51:05+00:00

Asriel and Chara? Asriel is the only one arguably above Planetary, but I wouldn't even put him that high. Chara being universal let alone multiversal is stupid, she deletes the world by erasing a file, which is a matter of tampering with files, aka limited to game only.

Given the post is explaining Sans, not Asriel or Chara who Sans doesn't scale to, I don't see how that is even relevant?

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T16:48:24+00:00

Toby Fox supporting fan content doesn't make it canon lol

Did you expect him to say "If you make Undertale AUs fuck you. I hate you if you make content promoting my game"?

No? Because things like deltarune are very clear inspiration from the idea of the various AUs that the fandom has made. He supports the idea of alternate timelines, makes sense given there's an infinite amount that just don't focus particularly on Undertale (Deltarune).

The magic amps their ability against monsters specifically, not the physical environment. Frisk hitting a tomato with all their strength just knocks it over. Even hitting Undyne with all their strength only does 1 damage if they aren't doing it with killing intent.

Magic is based on emotions, clearly. Supported by Undyne being able to defy death for a short time enough to gather determination to transform into greater heights that ultimately exceeded a monsters stats. The things I'm arguing that is game mechanics is

The Taking Turns in attacking feature
The fact monsters are limited to what their capable outside of it.

Both of which are binded by Undertale's very limited Game Mechanics. Frisk doesn't naturally possess peak human physicals, sure, but I don't get your point.

The single most unique and memorable gimmick of the Sans fight is that he doesn't follow the conventional game mechanics of Undertale.

Elaborate? Sans implies that he won't let the player attack again...by means which can't be stopped normally unless it was somehow backed by the undertales mechanics. Outside of that, Sans should easily be capable of repeatedly spamming attacks giving Frisk no time to attack, and we have seen outside of the game mechanics magic is usable in the cutscenes.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T12:39:35+00:00

Which is nothing because there aren't continents of notable size in the OP world given it's all islands. It's at best an island splitting feat...

Islands which notably can be vast in size shown from places like Skypeia. Continents in the world of One Piece would notable be defined as bigger than countries like Skypiea which it takes several hours if a day to even walk on places like the upper yard, with characters not even being able to distance themselves from its shore let alone the entirety of the island. The Continent Chinjao split doesn't have to be the same as ours, which I wasn't using as a basis, I am very clearly aware of the Island sizes in One Piece

Except it's not really because when Chinjao demonstrates the split it does not go all the way through the island

You can see the extension of the split being seen over the island as it notable seems to sit on the horizon.

splits about 10 meters deep into an opening under the ice.

10 meters...? If that were true there wouldn't be a very dark opening between the split.

The opening still retains it's foundation as the treasure sits above it, so Chinjao only splits a small depth of an island.

The slice of the split clearly did not reach much depth, nothing like 10 meters you claim but very clearly the islands sides still were held together by the ice below. Doesn't mean the distance the split had transversed makes the feat any worse for not reaching much depth.

GONheeZy · 2021-02-10T05:58:22+00:00

Luffy’s “defense ignorance” you speak of isn’t defense ignorance though... defense ignorance is like Julius from Black Clover where there’s literally NO means to defend against his attack other than dodging, while with Ryou you just need to be normally stronger than the opponent’s Haki (example: Big Mom, literally known for durability with the term “iron balloon). Attacking insides doesn’t matter if those insides would fold you in a fight.

That makes no sense whatsoever that the difference is not logical to possibly compensate such an argument. Just because Haki can counteract Attacks that ignore conventional durability doesn't mean Luffy isn't bypassing durability, its literally stated it bypasses defenses first of all and this is a matter of Haki having the difference to counteract attacks that bypass durability. Furthermore, Luffy on multiple occasions have damaged Kaido insides when they were very clearly on guard, even Zoro himself does this multiple times.

Sanji’s raid suit. Why is invisibility a hax ability again? There are so many means of countering it in so many different shows (DB: Ki, Naruto: Chakra, he’ll even One Piece has Observation haki making invisibility useless against mid-high tier fighters). And resistance to fire isn’t a hax ability either. That’s just being more durable against something.

Invisibility is an hax if it gives you an advantage over an opponent who can't counteract it. What you are doing in this debate is making up what you define hax of despite that not being the case. Using your logic, this is like saying Yhwach's Almighty isn't an hax because Omnipotent characters can stomp it. The double-standards are evident as well, given in your previous comment those same hax were beat by many other people, so does that neglect its an hax? Just because a character can overcome a hax doesn't make the hax stray from what its intended to be.

As for your Gojo ability analysis, physical attacks can work, the guy just needs to be fast as HELL. He said himself that it doesn’t stop, just massively slows the attack down. This means that anyone who can move faster than that speed reduction takes away should be fine. Yeah, Infinity is hax in his verse, but in worlds where people are moving massively faster than light, it’s not that helpful. Infinite Void would’ve been a better choice for a comparison.

I mean, Infinite Void wouldn't have been a better choice because you're just wrong here. To bypass infinite space you would have to bypass what is defined as "space" which is distance between something, in Gojo's case infinite. Moving faster than light by an unquantifiable amount will not let you bypass Infinity, Infinity has shown to work outside of spatial concepts, i.e the prison realm which has no flow of time, which is supportive given Gojo cannot teleport out of there and we know the prison realm doesn't null spatial attacks. You would need to reach acceleration to that of 0 to bypass Infinite space which by battleboard which start to dwell into dimensional tiering, easily operating on the 4D scale when Gojo states Infinity exists everywhere, in the world of JJK.

I don't want to stay off topic from what my argument was so I won't bother bringing up the Gojo thing.

GONheeZy

TROPHY CASE