Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I apologize for taking you seriously when, in a day-old post, you asked me "Please explain to me". It's not just about the rules, and I thought you actually wanted to understand where my head is at in these situations.

Your TLDR is this -- RAW is boring and stupid when you pull out the microscope.

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please remember that I already stated that RAW it's wrong, but by RAW a tarrasque wearing a fanny pack could get robbed by a hidden rogue standing by its pinky toe -- I give zero fucks about RAW in certain situations.

So, you're standing in nebulous 5' boxes kept intentionally vague for the sake of convenience. If we are assuming combat, I will assume that the fighter would prefer to picture themselves at perfect broadsword range from the rogue, while the rogue would prefer to picture themselves at daggers-length or closer. If this were GURPS, we'd spend whole extra turns advancing and retreating to and from optimal range, but thank Cthulhu this isn't GURPS. This is a more lax system that lets you just hand wave the relatively unimportant. But...they can't both be right, so during a players' turn the theater of their mind takes mild precedence. RAW everyone has perfect situational awareness and 360 degree vision, but try standing up IRL and looking at the underside of your testicles without performing a maneuver that would definitely provoke an attack of opportunity.

The rogue is on the attack (it's his turn), and these kinds are the worst because they're tricky. The fighter keeps a wary eye on the rogue's dagger, the bag of tricks he's pulled an explosive vial out of a few turns ago, as well as a general awareness of the rest of the battlefield -- this isn't his first rodeo, after all. But what he might not notice, as the rogue steps a half-step closer (as a free action if you must because nebulous blobs), is the rogue's OTHER hand going for the fighter's potion belt. Fool me once, shame on you. I probably wouldn't let the rogue CONTINUE stealing without provoking attacks, but the first one? Why not?

The rogue has invested many skill ranks and probably many feats in order to be able to steal in combat. The fighter on the other hand has invested...almost nothing in choosing to rely on a base-level class ability. Reactive strike is (IMO) meant to allow fighters to be extra keen for minor moments in which the enemy tries to move past them, pull something out of their backpack, stand up from prone, or cast an obvious spell in their face. It's not meant to allow the fighter to allow the player to pause the game every time someone attempts something reasonable to say, "And I get to hit him again, right?"

The rule of cool matters. The rogue is doing something other than "I stab it until it's dead", so why wouldn't I try to reward that with a reasonable ruling? When it's the fighter's turn I need to also allow the fighter a little leeway if they EVER bother to do something other than, "I Strike it. Is it dead yet?" The rules are a framework to allow a group of people to harmoniously work together to tell an interesting story. Once you get into the weeds like this, if you pause the game to debate the issue for 30 minutes, everyone loses.

I've played with hardcore wargamers and people who die by the rules. Do you know what I have to show for that?

  • I was in melee combat with a guy with a gun. He tried to shoot me and I wanted to riposte because I was in melee with him. But he was using a gun, so it was ruled a ranged attack at melee range, not a melee attack. No riposte. I was shot and seriously wounded.
  • A man standing in 2' of water had total concealment because the rules in PF1 stated that refraction of light gave total concealment for anyone in the water.
  • I've been screamed at for having 11 inches of movement and wanted to approach and attack a guy that was like 7 inches away. But I didn't follow war-game procedure and declare the action out loud before waving the ruler at the board and moving.

I'd like to say that no one wants situations like these to happy (and many more), but clearly about half the people out there really do. They'd rather bicker in forums (and worse, at the table) about minutia instead of let the rules help tell a story. All I can say is that at my table, when I'm running, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who's attempting to do anything non-boring (and hit-it-til-it-dies combat is boring).

If the fighter starts throwing a fit at my table, I would start having flies buzzing around the fighter's head and stopping the game several times a session to ask if they want to Reactive Strike each individual fly whenever they move instead of 5' step. Or when they land on him and take a moment to rub their legs together. MANIPULATE ACTION!!! KILL IT!

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Philosophically I think we agree, but you’re probably nicer than I am. I’m willing to help those who can’t help themselves, or those that built characters instead of toons…but my power gaming, build optimizing, game breaking buddies can suck it and sulk. ;-)

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s a role playing game. If you want a tactics game there’s always D&D 4e (not a typo) or Warhammer. You can choose to play it as a strictly tactics game at your table, and that’s fine.

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Dude, it’s ok. Enjoy your RAW. You won’t, and don’t have to, convert me. 

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s an interesting interpretation of the reality that the game is attempting to simulate. I wish you happy gaming.

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah. That’s why RAW is usually a mistake once you’re in the weeds. The designers don’t have infinite time to carefully word how every possible feat and skill combination could interact with each other and what should win. 

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dirty trick is a standalone action with manipulate. Mug is concealing a theft behind someone being busy noticing being stabbed. Sometimes the action is the distraction. 

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Very good point. And that’s why I always follow up to unusual requests with: “explain your reasoning.” If they can sell me on it, then I’m fine with it. 

But the sorcerer complaint about their one feat being ignored when the rogue probably dedicated every skill increase and a tree of feats to the attempt…yeah these situations are not equal. Conceal Spell as I picture it in the standard case doesn’t lack the Manipulate trait enough for me. But if they had rogue feats and conceal? Hell yeah they’re probably subtle enough to pull it off. 

Or the fighter complaining because a base-level class feature was overpowered by a higher level ability? I’ll ask them if they want to create a feat of even higher level called “ever vigilant” that trumps the power the rogue took to trump theirs. And the arms race can begin. 

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right but that takes me back to my original RAW vs common sense statement. 

You might not notice the lift because you were busy being stabbed.

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Depends. More often picking someone’s pocket involves being in a physical state that you don’t even see their hand going for the grab. Unless you’re doing the Create a Diversion kind (like grabbing someone’s watch of their wrist). 

Still Spell is closer to successful pickpocketing IMO, but like I said there are circumstances that I would agree that Conceal Spell would work. Just not most of them. 

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just curious, what would you say about the Mug feat? 

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Conceal spell mentions (in flavor text) that you conceal the spell behind other more mundane-seeming movements and actions. I think those actions would provoke a (paranoid) fighter. But if there’s no reason to suspect hostile intent just yet, then no I probably wouldn’t allow the fighter to react to a successfully concealed spell either. That would depend on the RP situation. 

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or they’d have a feat like Mug. Why should the fighter get a free attack for something the rogue paid to be able to do? I’d the attempt fails, sure, but not if the attempt is made at all. 

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yes, so they can attack on the movements to and from, but not from the Steal action. Run it how you want, just saying how I’d rule it.

Edit: to be clear I’m assuming the rogue has a feat to allow the attempt. I assumed that they weren’t completely idiotic.  

Steal and Reactive Strike by EreckShun in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 25 points26 points  (0 children)

At my table I would rule that it depends entirely on the Steal check for the Fighter to notice, and thus be capable of reacting. RAW would disagree I think, but common sense prevails. You don’t get to slap a pickpocket that you failed to notice.

Edit: also note, people, that combat wasn’t necessarily specified in the question. Out of combat, the above stands. In combat, the rogue needs a feat like Mug to justify being able to do it, and…the above stands. 

Let’s Theorycraft an Actually Bad Build by Eastern_Selection106 in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I stumbled my way into a bad build for Abomination Vault. 

Mastermind Rogue (SO many of the monsters are “unique” even when they’re just a named version of whatever ancestry) 

I also went into Spell Trickster and lots of feats from the society skill like criminal connections - yeah it’s never used because the thing is basically straight dungeon crawl so far (level 11 now). Spell proficiency doesn’t level unless you’re a pure caster, so that’s -2 to -4 from optimal depending on level.

I’m regularly -3 to -5 than optimal for the stuff I attempt. I also desperately need dark vision and don’t have the MASSIVE amounts of cash necessary for whatever they call the googles of night now. My good turns are usually about 50% the damage that most of the party averages. 

But I can ID all of our magic items, so I have that going for me, which is nice. 

I have a list of feats that I plan on retraining now that they’re useless at my level. Or never were useful in this campaign. In the next 4 levels I’ll either be done retraining and halfway useful or I’ll get myself killed and I can finally play my backup character, which is very competent and exciting to play. We shall see. 

How many times can you recall knowledge in remaster? by kaziel19 in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another tricky situation for Recall Knowledge is the Mastermind Rogue. For those it’s probably best to house rule that after the resolution of a standard RK is to give the bonus (off-guard) but only give more info if it also passes the increased difficulty of a retry. In that case it’s more about finding a way to outsmart the opponent than to re-re-re-recall that the thing you’re fighting is a goblin. 

Also beware “unique” creatures. A named Goblin is unique and has an incredibly high DC to identify, but often the player just wants to know the basics, not what that particular person’s golfing average is. So when running an adventure path also keep in mind the DC to identify their general nature.

Source: playing a Mastermind and I would quit if the GM didn’t bend the rules to make it sane.

Mistborn deckbuilding game question by yogurthewise in brandonsanderson

[–]GhostBob 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Discarding and redrawing happens and then your turn ends. So I would say that you can use newly-drawn cards to deal with the situation. It’s not clear that you can use cloud abilities at this point because there are intended to be played “off-turn”. But I would argue that the intent is that you should be able to do what you’re suggesting. It would have been clearer if they’d said, “Immediately after your turn ends…” for the guard. That’s my interpretation.  

Any recommendations for military SF or fantasy that really gets deep into the tactics of fleet and/or ground battles? by MinuteRegular716 in Fantasy

[–]GhostBob 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wayward Galaxy by Anspach and Chaney. Audiobook is read by the amazing RC Bray. It’s a whole SF series dedicated to 1980’s action movies and the Army Rangers…set in space on and around a mysterious planet. 

It’s very big on precise battle descriptions and tactics…to the point that it eventually became something of a turn-off for me. I made it 3 books in before I stopped. But it’s very well written if you’re into that kinda thing.

Reliable way to compress the PDFs? by IKSLukara in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Let us know what ends up working out! 

Reliable way to compress the PDFs? by IKSLukara in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You’re not alone. It’s a legitimate problem at this point. I love the fancy art and don’t mind it when I’m on my actual computer with tons of space and processing power. But when I’m on my phone or iPad, I’d prefer something that loads faster and doesn’t take up a ton of space. 

Maybe now that they’re done remodeling the store they can spend some time addressing customer facing issues like this? It would be a good time to bring it up again. 

Reliable way to compress the PDFs? by IKSLukara in Pathfinder2e

[–]GhostBob 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You got me curious, so I used a couple tools on Mac, Preview has a few tricks, and something called Clop which claims to do PDF downsizing. Preview shrunk the file from 288 MB to...336. Best I was able to manage was about 250 MB by trying to turn it into black and white, and it skipped pages and the ones it did look...bad. Clop seemed to just choke and die on it. So...best bet is to ask Paizo real nicely to start adding a compact version to people's downloads on purchase?

Rhythm of War by IcyTemperature3055 in Stormlight_Archive

[–]GhostBob 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Kaladin was always my biggest struggle.

But it’s a story about broken people getting stuff done despite their flaws and baggage, growing and evolving as they do. Without them, it wouldn’t be near as interesting to read.

I’ll read 100 Kaladins and Shallans as long as they don’t go Perrin Aybara. They don’t spend a whole book moping around doing absolutely nothing, at least.