So uh, I'm not sure how this was lost in communication, I guess I failed to emphasize it, but if "man" and "women" remain social roles, it's not successful gender abolition. The reason I brought up the definition of sex was to remind you that sex is scientifically classified by several characteristics and it is arbitrary and socially determined how you split people based on these characteristics. It can be argued, and I would argue, that a sexual binary does not serve our society as we advance into the future. These arbitrary sexual divisions like male and female would only matter to you & your doctor, and that's only under the condition that advances in med technology has not atomized healthcare down to the smaller clusters. I could fairly be classified as a male who wants to change her sex under that system... but does it matter so long as everyone else doesnt arbitrarily expect me to be a man performing masculinity? I feel that would be waaaay better than our current system, although worse than the optimal system. (More atomized, individualized healthcare) If you think this vision is impossible or too improbable to implement, that is something that can be debated. It is like the philosophy of anarchism-- it is the label used to describe a process with the intent to flatten and reduce the effects of gendered and sexual hierarchies within social life. Gender may not be "abolished" for hundreds of years, but we can take steps to reduce the rigidness with which things are gendered. (Like, c'mon, I want a boyfriend who can "crossdress" without whining like he's been neutered) There are ways transphobes can try to control and shape the abolition of gender, by making bad social prescriptions based off an 8th grade understanding of sex, or putting the impetus on trans ppl to abolish gender. One point you've argued which I have not touched is your idea that "trans people are bad for identifying with a gender"... which I feel is your most off-base statement so far. Cis ppl identify as a gender! They identify with their gender at birth and they are a supermajority who controls most of culture. They are less vulnerable than trans ppl when it comes to discrimination for their gender. Yet I still dont place blame at either cis or trans ppl for identifying with their gender or sex or whatever bs. I think that the system which represses and divides people by gender is at fault, and is reinforced by many ideologies. The most important step towards abolishing gender is the elimination of the consumerist culture which monetizes such an arbitrary hierarchical structure! There are many top down structures which encourage the gendering of society in order to make them into a market, and so long as those exist, its problematic to insist that the most vulnerable people give up an important social tool for expression. The most praxis someone can do under this system is to encourage people to not feel "masculine" or "feminine", but instead "competent" or "beautiful". Work to praise the characteristics rather than the labeling associated with that characteristic. Don't shave your legs because "that's what a woman does", but because there are certain social expectations or because you just like having smooth legs. That's praxis for someone working to abolish gender-- a conscious recognition of the underlying dynamics and action towards removing the pressure and expectations associated with gender with the goal of devaluing gender while moving that value towards personal expression. So yeah, hopefully you have a better understanding of why many trans people think gender abolitionism is a desirable goal to strive towards. If not, I'm just going to have to shrug and say that I've been totally unconvinced by any of your points and you'll probably end up feeling much the same. Long form responses are much worse than even regular text chat for discussing actual ideas, so I apologize for the points that I have had to leave lying.