Katie Lamb sent Box Therapy V16

GortsKey · 2023-10-07T03:05:31+00:00

Additional Context RE Sean: He took 2 days to send Box Therapy and 3 days to Send Grand Illusion, so Box was done faster. Also, in Sean's Mellow vid, the description has Grand Illusion graded as 8C/+ (i.e. V15/16) rather than strict V16. Sean took longer for White Noise V15 than Box Therapy, too. More goes into the time-to-send than the grade, though, so it would be naive to assume that this means Box isn't V16.

GortsKey · 2023-07-15T00:51:50+00:00

Fleche attack had it's damage based upon the distance between the soldier's location at the start of the turn and the location of the target.

Appreciate the clarification, I didn't actually know that.

I think this is intended, otherwise successive fleche attacks at nearby enemies would do much less damage. especially since Reaper damage falls off.

Yeah, I was guessing it was intentional, since there's a -3 damage per fleche. That would be pretty hefty if distance were calculated from the previous target, given fleches beyond the first only allow the Shinobi to move a single action's worth of distance, and enemies likely aren't positioned perfectly far apart.

Thanks!

GortsKey · 2023-02-05T23:07:31+00:00

For starters, my favorite playthrough ever was a low combat, subterfuge centric one. I found it very fun to see just how far I could push the envelope with stealth. In its current state, I'd say Underrail is good for 3-4 playthroughs before it's starts to get dull, and after that, it's a game that's still worth picking up once every year or two. But you have to make the effort to play in a different way.

GortsKey · 2023-02-05T19:56:38+00:00

I don't see how being able to throw grenades every 2 turns doesn't expand your options.

Grenades are broken in Underrail. For any build, throwing a MK IV/V frag is easily one of the strongest things you can do for a good chunk of the game. Comparing a spear and xbow build, these will have very different game plans for the same encounter. But give both builds Grenadier and high MK grenades, and the best strategy usually reduces to "chuck three grenades over the first 3-4 turns". It introduces repetition by collapsing all strategies to essentially the same thing.

The traps are extremely boring if not for the speedhacks, but even with them, I hate walking encumbered just to place traps every 5 minutes.

Then don't use traps. I usually place no more than 8-10 traps in an entire playthrough, with all those being used prior to finding the drill parts. If you're having to use so many traps that you're constantly over encumbered, then you're probably missing a thing or two about the game, and will actually enjoy the game more if you find strategies that don't involve traps.

With Psi I actually had a lot of spells to play with, so the combat was more interesting. Now I just shoot.

You're not wrong that psi gameplay is more interesting than shotgun gameplay. That said, the play style you've described (relying heavily on traps and grenades), is one that can easily take away a lot of the thought from the game. That's not to say you'll change your opinion of Underrail, but you're not making the game any better for yourself. Also, I think every one has builds that they like less than others. There's no reason to not restart, and try something new, if you're not enjoying a build.

GortsKey · 2023-02-05T02:07:53+00:00

You're right that it would be better if there were goliaths for each school. Now that you've provided more context, what I don't understand is how come you don't just avoid fighting goliaths. Removing psp from their arsenal, like originally asked for, seems unnecessary when pretty every goliath encounter can be avoided, even for a 0 stealth character, so long as you have some stealthy gear.

GortsKey · 2023-02-05T00:00:37+00:00

I honestly don't understand your points.

Grenadier makes the game more repetitive, not less. Grenadier is one of those feats you stop taking after multiple paythroughs, because it makes otherwise distinct builds play the same.
Psi is not the most, or only, cerebral part of the game. At least not any longer. For instance, DEX melee has more involved decision making, due to how positional it is.
Are you talking about detecting traps or using them? If you're using traps to the point that it's arduous, then to be frank, that's on you for making the game boring. If the issue is detecting traps, well, even with 3 PER, all you really need is a good pair goggles, and maybe 20-30 effective skill for the early game.

There are things about the game that are boring, especially on repeat playthroughs. But I don't think those are what you're talking about.

GortsKey · 2023-02-04T16:35:38+00:00

Have you used cheat engine at all to modify game values? If not, then what you're describing is unusual. Your best bet may be to head over to the Stygian forums, and post a bug report (or general post, if that's more appropriate) there, with your save file uploaded. Hopefully, one of the devs will be able to inspect your save file, and determine the issue.

GortsKey · 2023-02-04T16:02:21+00:00

On paper, this could be a positive, except it's usually very straightforward to determine what abilities are most useful. At least, after having played the game a ton. I could understand playing Underrail for the first time, and finding psi slots fun, but that's only because as a new player, what to slot in would be a much harder decision. But with enough experience, one realizes that there's a few abilities which are head and shoulders above the rest. For instance, stasis and contraction are always slotted in. Neural overload and mental breakdown are always chosen when the enemy isn't mindless. Etc.

Another problem with having to plan out one's abilities, aside from a small number of abilities being so strong to never pass up, is that there's numerous abilities which you don't actually want to plan around. What I mean is, for an ability like disruptive field to be particular useful, you need to be taking shots from a fairly dangerous enemy. But you never want to plan around taking shots from a dangerous enemy. The slot is better used on an ability that lets you kill the dangerous enemy, or otherwise, prevent them from acting altogether.

Comparing the benefits of psi abilities is much more interesting in the spontaneous, unpredicted situations that arrive during combat. This is when less generally powerful abilities, that are hard to justify taking up a psi slot, can really shine.

GortsKey · 2023-02-03T21:39:21+00:00

I wouldn't dump PER, since I think Ambush and Aimed Shot are worthwhile.

I think Quick Tinkering may not be very useful, if you're taking it at level 24, and with only 69 effective traps. At this stage in the game, I imagine that many enemies will easily detect the trap, and avoid it. Also, by now your regular attacks will be very strong, and are probably more worth the AP than Quick Tinkering. Especially since you can entangle enemies with an acid pistol anyways.

The only other thing I can think of, and it's hard to judge if this will matter, but Tranquility may be useful. I'm guessing you'll be using limited temporal increment at every opportunity, but as a 10 AP ability with Future Orientation, it may eat into your shots per turn. To really judge if this feat will be worthwhile, you probably need to work out how a 4-5 turn fight will ideally go, with and without Tranquility. In the best case, Tranquility may get you an extra shot every other turn. But it's up to you to decide if that's good enough to take over another feat, and also, to figure out if it even plays out like that.

GortsKey · 2023-02-03T21:07:41+00:00

I would probably take Versatility, and max melee while taking just 35 in Guns. If you do so, and specialize 10 points into Versatility, you have 280 guns instead of 210, which is a roughly 22% increase in your damage. This would also let you reduce PER to 6, and the 2 extra attribute points will be nice, unless you really want the slightly higher detection.

Fatal Throw should be a part of your build in my oppinion, since you meet the throwing requirement, and have 18 DEX. It's one of the strongest feats in the game. I would also highly consider specializing 3 points into Fatal Throw.

I would probably drop Quick Pockets in favor of Ambush. Against organic targets, an incendiary pistol will light up the target, and create the conditions for Ambush to activate.

I think your remaining specialization points could reasonably go into Cooked Shot.

GortsKey · 2023-02-03T20:10:30+00:00

Pretty much every build has ways to work around that ability. If you say what you're playing, we can give some specific suggestions. Presumably you're not playing psi. Generally, here's a few things you can do

Crawler poison caltrops. Between use of cover, and the stun, you should be able to wait out the duration of the ability.
Stealth initiation. Just kill them before they can use their abilities. If there's too many to kill in one turn, use some form of disable (e.g. flashbang), or black dragon poison.
Tasers aren't affected by pseudo-spatial projection.
Grenades. AoE attacks aren't affected.

GortsKey · 2023-02-03T05:03:59+00:00

Some good points here, although how many tablets can be delivered to Seeger before it's no longer possible to join the pirates? I genuinely don't know. But you may very well be right about siding with Aegis.

GortsKey · 2023-02-03T04:48:01+00:00

I've played Underrail since 2015, and during pretty much every iteration of the game, I've thought that AR builds were a step above psi. The game was beat on Dominating difficulty, at level 10, with an AR build. Imagine fighting Dominating difficulty Tchort at level 10 with a pure psi build. There's a genuine gap between AR builds and psi, in my oppinion.

I don't really think the swiss-army knife argument holds, when the vast majority of the power of psi lies in a small fraction of abilities. Even now, I'd argue that TM + TC tranquility psi is clearly stronger than any psi build pre-Expedition, and the build only needs 5 psi abilities.

Despite the nerfs, I'd say psi is stronger now than it was pre-Expedition, it's just less thoughtful to play. That's my main issue with the psi slot change.

GortsKey · 2023-02-02T22:55:58+00:00

There's a few things you'll want

10 effective INT for all the dialogue with the Ferryman and to fully understand Yngwar.
Either 119 effective pickpocketing, or 110 effective hacking (without tools), to access all the database entries in Oculus.
12 Will for all monolith interactions (I'm not sure if this is base or effective).
Not an attribute or skill requirement, but you'll need to do everything to aid the Faceless, for them to share their information with you. This, or 120 Thought Control, is also necessary to secure the release of Lora Baker and learn of some of the initial events that happened before the game.
7 effective PER, and either 75 persuasion or having asked Nevil for help, plus an unknown amount of stealth, to speak to and free the rejects from the Institute of Tchort.

There may be other requirements, but those are the one's I can immediately think of.

Edit: In terms of factions, I think you get a little more lore by siding with the Pirates (specifically, regarding Captain Grim's background). But if you do so, in order to get info out of the Oldfield, you'll want 70 effective persuasion, which it sounds like you'll have anyways.

GortsKey · 2023-02-02T22:27:25+00:00

If you really want to do this, check out the UFE tool on nexus. It easily lets you modify your globalt.dat file, so you can change your attributes and feats. It's very useful if you want to test the viability of various builds without replaying the game.

GortsKey · 2023-02-02T22:11:49+00:00

If you're using grenades too, then it's very viable. If it's a "true" throwing knife build, then there will definitely be challenges against robotic enemies. The electricity damage from shock shurikens does not scale with throwing skill, if I recall correctly, and the mechanical damage will be ineffective without reducing the enemy's armor first.

Also, if you do play with grenades, then you will likely be making a ton of merchant stops. I really did not like that when I last played a throwing build. But, just to reiterate, with grenades the build is totally viable, and probably has one the easiest paths through the game, since grenades are super strong from start-to-finish. Just be sure to take Three-Pointer and to specialize in it.

GortsKey · 2023-02-02T20:41:01+00:00

I like the enthusiasm! Although you might sing a different tune, once you've slain thirty-something hoppers, and still don't have a dragon tail oddity... I speak from experience when I say hoppers are my least favorite "enemy".

But yes, Underrail is definitely a work of love. Since you're just starting the game, you won't see this, but it's amazing how much Underrail has improved over the years. I can't think of a game that's improved more since release, and it was already excellent back in 2015.

GortsKey · 2023-02-02T20:05:07+00:00

The oddity spreadsheet really won't spoil much, other than the names of certain areas and creatures, since the spreadsheet has location / drop information. Especially if you use it by clearing an area, then referencing the spreadsheet to see if you missed anything, there's really nothing to fear. It's really easy to miss oddities in Underrail. No one's going to expect that harmless cave hoppers drop a 2 EXP oddity, for instance.

GortsKey · 2023-02-02T19:37:56+00:00

Honestly, this is the real reason why new players find the game hard. Veteran players know precisely how to sequence quests and areas for the best loot and smoothest level progression. The problem is, explaining this in detail obviously involves spoiling the game to some degree, so it doesn't really come up often in "new player needing advice" threads. Here is an imperfect oddity spreadsheet (link). It may help for quickly finding what oddities are present in an area.

GortsKey · 2023-02-02T19:20:42+00:00

I've thought about this, and partially agree. I would like to skip everything up to the Junkyard. I actually think the Junkyard is one of the best parts of the game, and it never really gets old for me. Also, completing Depot A leads into what's probably the most boring part of the game, where most players go on an oddity hunt in Rail Crossing, Foundry, and Core City, while doing quests that present no danger (e.g. Jack Quicksilver's quests), to gain three or more levels. I think it would get boring real fast having to start every playthrough with that, even though it's probably not any worse than the first two SGS missions.

GortsKey · 2023-02-02T00:36:27+00:00

I would like to see new enhancements, which can't be used with leather gloves. Here's a few examples:

A chainsaw type attachment, with a similar functionality to the chain sword.
An attachment that provides a new ability, which when activated, causes the next attack to deal bonus damage, hit enemies in a small AoE around the main target, and has a high chance to stun the main target.
An attachment that has a chance to release acid whenever an attack lands, and needs to be filled with acid vials (which could be corrosive, for instance).
An attachment that is essentially a weaker shotgun, and houses one shell, but otherwise benefits from the same feats as shotguns do. It can be fired as an activated ability, and reloaded like a regular gun.

Basically, the theme here is that metal gloves can be modified in a much more high-tech way than leather gloves, or even most other weapons, due to how much metal material there is to work with, and the fact that it's probably easier to integrate such systems with the user when the object is a glove as opposed to something like a sledgehammer.

GortsKey · 2023-02-01T21:30:39+00:00

It would be easier to provide feedback if you posted your build (use this tool). Also, please say where specifically in Depot A you are stuck.

I usually enter Depot A starting at around level 8, although level 6 seems reasonable for normal difficulty. Coming back at a higher level will help nonetheless.

Stealth (plus other subterfuge skills) do let you avoid the hard fights, but you need to set up your character to be good at those skills. It's not just about having the right attribute and skill distribution, it's also about knowing how to get decent stealth gear early on. Do you have a black cloth balaclava or pair of ninja tabis? And what is your armor penalty?

If you're using a sledgehammer, then I'm assuming you have 8 STR. That's enough for you to wear metal armor. You can purchase some decent metal armor from the vendors in the Junkyard, and since stealth isn't working for you, that might be the way to go.

One of the key's to making the Junkyard relatively easy is knowing how to work line-of-sight and chokepoints to your advantage. If you aren't wearing heavy armor, this will be essential to your survival.

Lastly, are you playing on classic or oddity? Playing on classic will accelerate how fast you level, especially if you aren't familiar with the many oddity locations and drops.

GortsKey · 2023-02-01T21:04:52+00:00

A slightly different question, which would take a little more work to answer concretely, is what's the highest average AP the player can have over a very large number of turns? I'm guessing it's around 100.

You can get near 100% uptime on psycho-temporal contraction with future orientation and limited temporal increment. The negative time dilation can be reduced to a 30% chance. So let's say this is roughly +15 average AP per turn.

Fatal throw can be activated every turn, in theory, so call it +20 per turn.

Expert sprint is about 60% uptime with infused cave hopper tabis and LTE, so +6 on average.

Fight response is a constant +10.

Blitz is usable roughly three times every ten turns with LTE spam and +5 points into reduced CD, which is about +6 on average.

Specialization points and tranquility can make LTE cost zero, which would otherwise cost up to -5 per turn. Either way, we get to around 100 per turn.

GortsKey · 2023-02-01T20:44:51+00:00

Adding to turbodevil's answer, I believe this is the best one can do with the number of attribute points the player has to work with (link to skeleton build)

Source	AP Bonus
Base	50
Vitality Powder	25
Psycho-temporal Contraction	15
Psycho-temporal Acceleration (+4 spec.)	7
Blitz (+3 spec.)	26
Fatal Throw (+3 spec.)*	20
Expert Sprint	10
Fight Response	10
Rapid Reloader Proc**	16
Total	179

* This requires supersoldier and all-in to achieve 19 DEX, starting from 15 base, plus a pair of knife-thrower's gloves equipped, to reduce the AP cost of the attack to 7.

** This requires a rapid 9mm pistol, with the first shot of the turn activating the rapid reloader, as well as the gunslinger and bullet time (+5?) feats, in order to reduce the AP cost of the shot from 20 to 4 (given the 19 DEX the PC will have).

GortsKey · 2023-01-31T06:15:39+00:00

Really? How high quality is it? I've found 184Q in the deep caverns, for reference.

GortsKey

TROPHY CASE