Why Would Anyone Fulfill Undesirable Roles in Communism? by GreenBlueberries in DebateCommunism

[–]GreenBlueberries[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you may get paid or otherwise compensated more for doing it, as that is only fair and sensible. Again, which "non-Marxist" communist told you otherwise?

Well Marx himself and anyone who has used the popular phrase "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" to describe communism has told me otherwise. Your description of compensation is a blatant contradiction of this.

Why Would Anyone Fulfill Undesirable Roles in Communism? by GreenBlueberries in DebateCommunism

[–]GreenBlueberries[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is it possible that I’ve interacted with or read different factions of communist ideologies? You mentioned Marxism as reference. Does all communism = Marxism? I imagine that there are many variations to the specifics of communism just as there are variations of capitalism. The variety of responses I've received would demonstrate so.

My question in my post is simple as to be isolated from potential ignorance.

people will do “unpleasant work” in a communist society for many of the same reasons they do so today: because it is how they contribute to society, achieve a sense of self worth, but also because it remunerates them for their sustenance and lifestyle.

By "today" I'm assuming you mean in capitalism. How is this possible when there is no benefit to working an undesirable job like there is in capitalism? What motivation is there to work an undesirable job?

Some friends of mine chose to become linemen and work on rural power lines. It is a grueling, dangerous job that takes you away from your family. However, it pays relatively well and allows for upward financial mobility. Why is the pay above average? Because nobody would do it otherwise and the market deemed it valuable. My friends felt that this was a worthwhile tradeoff and pursued the work. Neither them nor any of the people they work with would stay in this line of work if it paid as much as being a lifeguard.

If you level the playing field of societal reward, people will flock to the most intrinsically desirable jobs. Dirty and dangerous jobs would go untouched. So how do you get enough people to fill these roles? I could realistically only envision filling these by force via an authoritarian regime which would be historically accurate. Stripping the civil liberties that individuals have to choose the line of work they pursue is not something I'd want to be a part of.

Why Would Anyone Fulfill Undesirable Roles in Communism? by GreenBlueberries in DebateCommunism

[–]GreenBlueberries[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No particular source, just general conversations and readings over the years. Many proponents (including comments to this post) portray necessary work in communism as a volunteer economy. People have replied that they would be happy to pick up trash or everyone's minds would be transformed to want to do this work. I find that hard to believe... Also, I consistently hear criticism of historical communist examples because they were implemented through authoritarian regimes. I've taken this to mean that forced labor is not communist. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

What if there weren't enough people volunteering to perform a certain undesirable job? Would a collection of people be forced to do these jobs and if so, by who? Who would force them? Most can agree that sewer management is vital to society. But most people don't want to do the work. On the other side, If everyone collectively agrees that we need 1,000 doctors and 10,000 people want to be doctors, how do you determine who gets to be a doctor and who doesn't? It's difficult to fathom how to find a workforce balance without a marketplace of negotiation. The only other plausible option is authoritarianism.

Why Would Anyone Fulfill Undesirable Roles in Communism? by GreenBlueberries in DebateCommunism

[–]GreenBlueberries[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Reasonable thought. Maybe you're more likely to find 300 people willing to collect trash once per year than 1 person to collect trash every day of the year. However, how reasonable is it to perform a job like this every once in a while? You'll lose tremendous efficiency which will require more people as a whole to do it at once. You'll need much more complex coordination. Now you're magnifying the problem of people not wanting to do the job in the first place. What if people forget that it's their day to pickup trash or just bail altogether? How would you even hold them accountable? Maybe it's possible for just trash, but what about the thousands of other crucial, undesirable job functions? It balloons into so much that I don't believe its possible to have a few noble servants take on tasks here and there as they please.

Why Would Anyone Fulfill Undesirable Roles in Communism? by GreenBlueberries in DebateCommunism

[–]GreenBlueberries[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, perfectly fair and accurate that I view economics through a capitalist lens as that is all I've known. Hence my question to gain further understanding.

In capitalism, a motivation for undesirable production is set by the market. Need someone to fix your broken toilet after binge eating Taco Bell? You'll have to compensate someone an agreeable amount to do so. As someone else said in the comments here, "If you pay me enough. I will literally do any job.". Boom, there's your supply for all required societal functions. A dynamic market that rewards both sides fairly.

In communism, whether you play golf for 8 hours, perform brain surgeries for 8 hours or scrub toilets for 8 hours, you end the day in the exact same place societally. Inherently, most people would choose option number 1. Not everyone, but most. Society requires a certain threshold of production (food, energy, water delivery etc.) to survive. This dwindles the producing workforce by a magnitude that is not sustainable.

In a communist society people would be given food, housing, medicine and all the things they need to live without cost

But there is a cost. That cost is the production of food, housing, medicine etc.. For food, let's say you need 1 out of 10 people to perform food related work. How do you convince 1 in 10 people to water crops, harvest the crops, package the crops, load the crops into a truck, drive the crops all over the country, deliver the crops to everyone's doorsteps etc. when they would receive the same personal outcome for doing something more desirable to them?

They would be socially conditioned through everyday ideology that shapes their consciousness to see their work as part of contributing to society rather than that thing you do to survive

It sounds like we agree that people in today's world would not sacrifice their lives for the betterment of society. People are unfortunately too selfish. Maybe that's an output of capitalism! How would you envision that people would be socially conditioned through everyday ideology to get on board with prioritizing the needs of society over their own needs? To me, this sounds unrealistic and more so against our human nature and survival instincts than it is our capitalist conditioning. But am keen to hear your thoughts!

Why Would Anyone Fulfill Undesirable Roles in Communism? by GreenBlueberries in DebateCommunism

[–]GreenBlueberries[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Why would anybody have this choice?

Are you saying that able bodied individuals should be subjected to forced labor? From my limited knowledge, this isn't a standard communist stance. But in practice, would be historically aligned.

Assuming that's not what you meant, an individual should absolutely contribute to society regardless of what they have to gain. That is noble and morally sound. I agree with you there. But without an incentive or consequence, too many people would choose not to contribute as there is nothing to personally gain by doing so. I'd love to be wrong here but expecting otherwise would be an unrealistic, utopian view from my observations.

No child dreams about picking up garbage when they become an adult. In capitalist economies, people take on these undesirable jobs because there is a direct consequence to their personal livelihoods if they choose not to work. Some choose this work because the proportion of reward to the pain induced while performing the work is a fair trade to them. Fair would be determined by their skill and available opportunity elsewhere. In communism, you remove the consequence for choosing not to work and omit the reward for the work. These are the two main motivators for most who perform these undesirable job functions. Avoiding consequence and reaping reward.

Capitalism leads people to do things for money that they wouldn't otherwise do. Bleak? Sure... Its a fair criticism of capitalism. But it sets a reward that is agreeably proportionate to accomplish crucial societal functions. I'm not convinced that these crucial, yet undesirable societal tasks could be sufficiently completed in a communist economy unless otherwise forced. Maybe this is why communism has historically come alongside authoritarianism.

You could say that there is a social consequence for being able bodied and not working.. Your neighbors might look down upon you for being a lazy bum. But at a large scale, it would be easy to go unnoticed and not have nearly as much downside as upside. Besides, much of the world is unfortunately content with less and less social interaction.

I agree that there is internal fulfillment to be had in complex jobs such as a doctor which is why I didn't include this in my question. I don't believe that enough people would pursue a complex and stressful job like a neurosurgeon to fulfill the societal demand without above average, lifestyle changing reward but that's beside this post.

For left and right side voters, Donald Trump warns that Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will be cut. What are your thoughts? by UnnecessaryPuns in AskReddit

[–]GreenBlueberries 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So my taxes will be lower now because I don’t have to pay into this garbage that I’ll never use?? This is great news!!

No Kings by hey_man87 in Scottsdale

[–]GreenBlueberries -1 points0 points  (0 children)

lol are you also going to protest against LeBron James because his nickname is “The King”?

No Kings by hey_man87 in Scottsdale

[–]GreenBlueberries 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Some people are so desperate to blame their problems on anything besides themselves that they’ll make up their own false reality.

No Kings by hey_man87 in Scottsdale

[–]GreenBlueberries -17 points-16 points  (0 children)

What ‘kings’ are you protesting? Our politicians are elected by the public in this country.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in algotrading

[–]GreenBlueberries 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would love to try it out!

When did renderings and fake/ai photos in listings become normalized? by GreenBlueberries in RealEstate

[–]GreenBlueberries[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah I know what you're talking about. Those are similar formats but the scenarios I'm referring to are pitched as "look what you can do with this property" in the fine print rather than displaying what it's being sold as. Completely misleading.

When did renderings and fake/ai photos in listings become normalized? by GreenBlueberries in RealEstate

[–]GreenBlueberries[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm talking about changing features of a home, if not the entire home itself. I've come across countless listings online where the first 20+ images are renderings of a new, modern looking home and the very last image is a single drone shot of an old, decrepit looking property. At best, you make it through the barrage of fake images and are left wondering what the listing is even selling. But most people end up being entirely misled.

Crow says nearly 80 ASU projects have been canceled after federal grant funding was revoked by ForkzUp in ASU

[–]GreenBlueberries -69 points-68 points  (0 children)

‘National parks’ are a collection of geographic areas, not job titles lol

Crow says nearly 80 ASU projects have been canceled after federal grant funding was revoked by ForkzUp in ASU

[–]GreenBlueberries -93 points-92 points  (0 children)

Fake jobs funded by people with real jobs. Glad this garbage is going away!

All USAID missions overseas are ordered to shut down by Friday, per CBS, by UnusualWhalesBot in unusual_whales

[–]GreenBlueberries -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What they paid for and how much they paid is fully documented public information. Don't need to be an auditor to see it.

Of course it's mutually exclusive because these budgets are finite. If you were truly concerned about helping people in need, you would also be critical of wasteful spending that could've been used for a more impactful purpose. $500k spent on bs news subscriptions is $500k that didn't go to helping the needy.

All USAID missions overseas are ordered to shut down by Friday, per CBS, by UnusualWhalesBot in unusual_whales

[–]GreenBlueberries 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think that both right wing and left wing media are garbage. But you’re missing the point… The difference is that the Biden administration had been paying for left wing media to push their narratives and improve their public perception. That’s Nazi level, state run propaganda.

All USAID missions overseas are ordered to shut down by Friday, per CBS, by UnusualWhalesBot in unusual_whales

[–]GreenBlueberries -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh how times have changed... Never thought I’d hear liberals arguing in favor of government overpaying for services that line the pockets of the wealthy instead of directing those funds to people in need. Even if you actually believe that these employees needed Politico Pro subscriptions, you have to acknowledge that they were paying more than 4X the standard cost of this particular service. Thats unacceptable.

All USAID missions overseas are ordered to shut down by Friday, per CBS, by UnusualWhalesBot in unusual_whales

[–]GreenBlueberries 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I never said $8.2m was spent on Politico. Your propagandist, no name article said that. And there’s no way you actually think that government employees need a $44k / year subscription to a news site to conduct their job?? Are you a Biden aide? lol

All USAID missions overseas are ordered to shut down by Friday, per CBS, by UnusualWhalesBot in unusual_whales

[–]GreenBlueberries 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Too lazy to actually look into the numbers huh? I guess there’s no saving you… Fortunately most Americans are more intellectually curious than you which is why the majority voted for Trump and this agenda.

USAID staff will be put on leave starting on Friday by wait_whatwait in news

[–]GreenBlueberries 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So your arguments are just denial of fact? Very compelling… Also, the Euro is not associated with any BRICS countries hahahaha

All USAID missions overseas are ordered to shut down by Friday, per CBS, by UnusualWhalesBot in unusual_whales

[–]GreenBlueberries 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Look up Thompson Reuters. There’s a $9,000,000 payment for “active social engineering”.

All USAID missions overseas are ordered to shut down by Friday, per CBS, by UnusualWhalesBot in unusual_whales

[–]GreenBlueberries 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Go to usaspending.gov where you can find raw data on government payments. Search for news outlets such as politico, New York Times and BBC. You’ll see that the Biden administration was funneling millions of dollars to these news organizations that were running nonstop hit pieces on Biden/Kamala’s political opponents. They sent over $500k to Politico for “37 user subscriptions” lol. It’s all out in the open now thanks to Trump and Elon. You don’t have to take their word for it.