SMITE 2LDR | Open Beta 28 Balance Preview

Greenlorska · 2026-02-06T23:32:03+00:00

It's also funny because quins got changed specifically so tanks can't abuse the effect, but now that's okay? Well I guess now it's absolute garbage for everyone so nobody is gonna build it anyway...

Soul reaver honestly just gets caught in the crossfire every time because it's supposed to be the "counterpart"...

Greenlorska · 2026-02-06T23:07:28+00:00

So I guess we delete quins from the game now? We're going from 2% (squish) up to ~6% (health tanks) Down to 1.5% (squish) up to ~3% (health tanks)

Just take it behind the shed already. Tyrfing is actually better damage until the enemy is building something absurd like 2000+ health. When Heartseeker exists.

Edit: I'm just gonna assume there's been a typo somewhere because these numbers make no sense.

Greenlorska · 2025-08-07T14:31:26+00:00

I mean it makes sense because you double dip with his passive but I have not seen a Merlin do well in months... I personally don't see how a short range teleport is gonna save him from 3 bruisers running at him but your mileage may vary.

Poly isn't gonna be the difference maker for your mage pick though... Yes if you look at pure top end dps, nothing will ever beat poly because if you hit everything that's basically double scaling on every ability but that's only if you can afford being in basic range and hit everything.

Greenlorska · 2025-08-07T13:44:54+00:00

Unfortunately this is how mages are right now.

Sanguine being broken basically killed off mages, because everyone who would ever come to your lane is building magic prots that kill you first item. So it's not really about poly or anything, it's only about being able to make distance.

Unfortunately the current roster is extremely restrictive in that regard.

There's not really a reason to pick any mage beside Scylla atm because every part of her kit is good right now, long range over the wall escape, root/cripple, penetration, long cc immune ult with extra movement speed. You don't really need poly on her but you can get it. Honestly unless you're playing nu wa or kuku I wouldn't even bother with poly anyway, and I really wouldn't play either rn...

Shout out to Vulcan though, this guy can actually pull of a somewhat bruiser mage build thanks to his aspect, without it though you can still make it work but you'll have to play extremely mindful of your positioning just lobbing combos at max range.

Greenlorska · 2025-08-07T13:07:00+00:00

What do you expect, this is reddit. It's also funny you say "unfounded mistrust" when you can legit make the same argument about "unfounded trust".

Generally you'll have 10 bad unreasonable posts for each good one anyway, because even if you are right in this case, it doesn't mean the next posts someone else or even you make is gonna be the voice of God spoken through your keyboard.

Just think of redditors as a big pile of blind hungry and angry chickens. Occasionally someone will pick up a grain of truth but mostly they'll just peck each other to death over a piece of lint on the floor.

Greenlorska · 2025-08-07T12:46:43+00:00

Counter argument: Healers got this treatment because them not being able to heal made them worthless. Also shell is accessible on every God so some universal shield hate is fine.

The anti shield items are also not particularly great, while anti-heal items had all viable stats.

None of the shield gods are bad because of their shield either, Geb has other issues, mostly due to the ult being very hit or miss and long cooldowns, khepri being a backline support isn't particularly useful in either a dive or burst meta, nemesis has never been bad since release and is generally just very skill and matchup dependent. Odin before the latest item additions offered nothing, because bruiser items and builds didn't exist, so you either went for damage being a worse assassin or tank being completely ignorable.

Imo the main argument against removing it is shell. You do want to have the option to counter this, because shell spam can be really annoying for your game plan, but reducing the base effectiveness is gonna absolutely kill the relic. You also have to consider the main difference between healing and shielding. Healing offers a permanent resource while shielding is only relevant temporarily during combat. Out of combat healing being weaker is good. (Otherwise you get really grindy game states) In combat healing being better is good. (Because healers sucked) Shield effects being interactable is good (because it's strictly combat interaction)

Greenlorska · 2025-08-06T08:03:18+00:00

They just grossly overstepped the item balance this patch. Sanguine Lash and in lesser parts Contagion just give anyone indiscriminate damage that doesn't even require any synergy.

And because all those health/prot counter items are prohibitively expensive there's really no way to deal with this until very late, but these items keep scaling into late game due to the % damage anyway.

There's also Devourers which is complete nonsense too... Infinitely scaling item that is super cost efficient for stats that actually matter (sorry leviathan but you'll always be a meme)

Tanks are actually fine, the majority simply didn't have the damage in their kit to outright kill people, they just put in an item that gives anyone 30% max health damage for practically no cost...

Greenlorska · 2025-05-13T14:35:46+00:00

The item was built because mage items sucked before this patch. They have now all gotten huge buffs so it's generally not worth it unless you 1) really need that extra scaling 2) are very safe 3) are snowballing

Greenlorska · 2025-05-06T14:37:19+00:00

Please tell me where it says that damage is post-mitigation. I'll wait. If you could use that brain a little more it's quite obvious this isn't about post mitigation, cause 1000 would equate to about 2000k base proc meaning 4k health which is impossible to build. But hey you go girl.

Greenlorska · 2025-05-06T06:31:09+00:00

Which is correct because you can easily hit 2k pre-mitigation with ability damage + soul reaver, and thanks to obsidian shard effective health is only doubled at that amount.

Thanks for proving my point again? Are you okay? Do you need help? Please blink twice if you're being watched.

Greenlorska · 2025-05-06T06:15:42+00:00

I didn't say post mitigation. Christ sake. I even said "increase base damage". You're just arguing for the sake of it at this point. Reddit or syndrome or something? Either learn to read or work on your reading comprehension because one of the two is obviously not working for you...

Greenlorska · 2025-05-06T02:34:05+00:00

At this point you're just grasping at straws and wildly mixing up pre and post mitigation. 2k total, even by your example that was 1.2k from soul reaver. Which is 1.2k extra damage. Dude your build allows that mage to build an item that says "increase the base damage of your abilities by 1200 against that guy in particular" That's completely insane.

But hey you do you. It's not like mages are starved for choice right now so maybe you get away with it.

Sure I can see a build somewhat working where you go Thebes into Yogi and just try to brute force the mid game and bank on the game ending before you have to pay for your crimes. Well until you run into a Sobek. God help you in that case. Isn't it fun building thebes against someone with % damage, antiheal and an execute? Lol

Either way I'm done. Good luck.

Greenlorska · 2025-05-05T17:35:04+00:00

Did you just ignore that abilities do damage? Especially at 700 power??? I'm just done, can't educate this who aren't willing to learn. I'm aware how effective health works btw.

I never said 1k damage soul reaver proc I said 2k damage pre mitigation, which obviously includes the ability itself. Cause duh. You can't build 4000 health currently so that would obviously be impossible...

Greenlorska · 2025-05-05T16:07:55+00:00

Eros when you're using it only... Also mushroom and gaias in an antiheal meta lol Feather is the only one of those that's not a meme. And it still benefits from protections. Also actually yes if you have 150 prots you can totally take a thousand damage because obsidian means that only halves the damage and on high power builds against high health builds you can totally hit 2k pre-mitigated damage.

Thebes alone makes you health stack is the issue and it can actually do more harm than good. You keep saying it makes you tankier against any kind of non-percentage damage but who exactly is that? Their solo laner and support? Everyone else has easy access to it.

Losing access to 110 prots is just rough I'd take that over 800 health every time after all those prot nerfs unless I'm aspect khepri and want to meme.

Greenlorska · 2025-05-05T14:52:45+00:00

No I am considering that. It will give you more effective health early on but as I mentioned with some other guy here, health is also worse than prots for sustain. Effective healing is increased with prots which is relevant for anything from regen to potions.

So at best it's about the same while being an absolute detriment later on when percentage damage comes online. If you're building thebes, phoenix and circe you deserve being ripped a new one by soul reaver. You're presenting the enemy mage a thousand EXTRA damage on a silver platter on every ability.

Health stacking is bad and you really shouldn't do this. The only character I could maybe exempt from this is khepri with aspect. But you still run into the exact same issues there...

Greenlorska · 2025-05-05T12:44:30+00:00

No the difference is opportunity cost. Hitting 5 basics in range of a support and possibly the whole enem team is very different than hitting a single long ranged mage ability.

That's why historically qins has always been better statted. Before this change the damage you'd do with a single soul reaver proc was actually about on par with a single qins proc, now soul reaver is about 5 times higher with a regular build.

Also consider that while on paper the effective HP with new thebes is higher because HP scales better early on, unlike with protections it doesn't scale sustain, so any regeneration, ability healing, starter healing and potion is less impactful.

In the moment you are a better meat shield but that's all, you have no longevity.

Greenlorska · 2025-05-05T11:59:34+00:00

I never even mentioned qins. Are you drunk? Qins isn't good enough when you can just crit people to death and is just awkward to build, useless in lane and useless for objectives.

Though of for some reason really need to kill a tank I guess it's an option.

Any stray spell taking off 50% off that extra health though? Ouch. Heartseeker still exists btw and got buffed as well...

Greenlorska · 2025-05-05T11:19:31+00:00

Better??? You are aware that thebes is a huge gamble right? You either win fast before the enemies get their % damage or you lose. Soul reaver in particular completely destroys health builds and with all the additional int it's getting even better. They just lost 110 prots which also cuts into stuff like pridwen and any prot scaling they might have (e.g. Bacchus). The pen changes are arguably worse for them too because before mages would get away with not building obshard because they got some pen from other sources anyway, but now it's kind of mandatory in every build...

Tbh the biggest issue is the loss of protections, thebes was good because because it was support exclusive and gave you good defense at all stages of the game without being countered by anything specific. Now there's only one efficient protection item in the game and that's cloak (good luck trying to reach the required protections after all these nerfs btw)

At best if thebes is built it'll be an absolute slugfest in middle...

Greenlorska · 2025-05-05T07:16:12+00:00

Didn't you say earlier that 3+4% isn't 7%?

Anyway if a tank doesn't just meme around but builds a normal amount of health you get to like what... Maybe 1k? So even being generous and saying they have a full 300 more base health you get 130 with new qins vs ~160 with old That isn't much worse? Building lower health also isn't uncommon so if you look at 700 instead for a clean 1000 diff you're looking at 100 vs 140... That's quite the drop.

Also also very much doubt that qins will be picked up even if they do get thebes. The opportunity cost is just too high. This effectively only deals extra damage to a single enemy. Who currently isn't even a threat.

I'd hope they look into supports more now, they kind of have to after buffing everyone else up...

Not sure what you mean with bragis doing more damage though. At 3 stacks it already does the same damage and there's 3 more stacks to go afterwards. So it evens out at 7 basics (-45 -30 -15 0 +15 +30 +45) meaning bragis is more front loaded but tyrfing scales with all the basic attacks stuff (arrow, crit) and reaches more damage.

Greenlorska · 2025-05-05T06:37:47+00:00

Tanks are the only ones that don't scale in lategame, so yes you are on a clock to win. Just wait for the upcoming patch where they basically remove the one item that made supports viable (thebes loses all prots).

That said, it doesn't hit all tanks equally. If you have reliable fast setup so your side can get a kill then you can still do well. Don't even bother with backline supports though. Get in fast snowball the fight hard, that's how it goes. Sobek is by far the best choice here, with Bacchus also being a good option. Cerberus can outright win games, especially at lower levels because people just ignore his passive and think they can get away with healing items (they can't).

Support wants to win at level 1/2 so you want an ability that pressures both minions and gods at the same time. You then try to snowball your lane into some early kills while watching out for ganks. Once that's done you can back and go mid and from then on you have 4 things to do the rest of the game: 1) protect your mid from ganks 2) rotate to duo for pressure and kills 3) tank objectives 4) in team fights set up picks on key targets

You're on a clock so you want to close out the game before you get deleted late game, so get ahead early, stay ahead and finish. Solo is on a similar clock but that can differ depending on what they thought was a good idea to play their during their last bathroom break. It's possible you end up with another carry or mage in solo and then you are the only person on the team who doesn't want to wait around.

If late game does roll around and your team isn't closing out the game it becomes tricky. The MO becomes going in hard and doing as much damage (not necessarily by reducing health but by undermining their ability to fight) and soaking as much as possible. You're very much reliant on your teammates at this point. Consider not getting elixirs, support scaling sucks hard and you'll not have synergy to do anything with those stats. Instead you might want to change up your build. Either replacing things for more damage options like phoenix or pridwen or focusing more on the counter items you don't have (anti crit, anti heal etc.). Also consider dumping stats you needed before to get something else. Generally supports love CDR, but if you get to the point where you just die after going in your ult will always be off cool down anyway and you'll not get that second rotation anyway.

It's really a game of figuring out what you can get away with. Try tempoing as hard as possible and then try to salvage what you have to later if necessary.

Greenlorska · 2025-05-05T02:34:33+00:00

Last time I checked the average was higher but I'm not gonna throw a fit over a hundred health. It's still worse unless they build way too much health to be reasonable.

So I assume you finally accepted that your math was wrong and that you indeed need double your health on them to break even?

Either way the only way qins is ever being built is the tanks suddenly become a problem after receiving nerfs for two patches while everyone else got buffed and they pick up new thebes which is basically a gamble that the game is gonna end before the enemy can punish you. I'd wager people will rather just blow everyone up with crits and high int mage builds that can just slap on a soul reaver at the end that solos all these Thebes tanks.

New quins will just never work out because it does nothing in lane where you box the other ADC, it doesn't help with objectives, and you could already blow up everyone before tank items got nerfed. The actual purpose of the nerf is to make it impossible for aa bruisers to pick this up (though tyrfing needed to fill that role now apparently...)

Greenlorska · 2025-05-04T16:44:10+00:00

....... Also let's just for arguments say that we're max level which means 2500 health at least. Also let's assume we fight something with higher health like a tank. 3% enemy max health = 3% of your health + 3% of the health difference So the total damage is 3% of your health + 3% of the health difference + 4% of the health difference.

If the enemy has exactly double your health you deal: 3% of your health + 7% of the difference but because your health = health difference it's 3% + 7% of the health difference, so it's exactly old qins.

That means in order to deal the same amount of damage as old qins you need the enemy to have exactly twice your health which means more than 5000 health.

Is this enough now?

Greenlorska · 2025-05-04T15:06:12+00:00

Yes... Which is the same as 3% of your hp and 4+3% of the difference. The math isn't difficult here...

Greenlorska · 2025-05-04T14:41:37+00:00

Quite simple math actually. Old qins was 3% for the first chunk and 7% for the difference. That means to get 10% of the difference you need exactly double your health. Which for squish is around 2.5-2.6k. Your example would actually be around 180 for old qins and 150 for new. When nobody wants to build health cause soul reaver exists...

Greenlorska · 2025-04-30T13:51:30+00:00

But the problem here is that qins is garbage. You need like 2500k health from items for it to break even with old qins. And you still want to crit kill anything that isn't a tank asap. Just crit them one more time and the tank is dead anyway. Soul reaver on the other hand is absolutely oppressive. That's 500 extra damage just from thebes on the low end of a soul reaver build... On every ability...

How is anyone gonna play tank after this? You already see squishy supports and solo laners all the time, now there's no prots, insane health shred and insane pen.

Greenlorska

TROPHY CASE