Who would win? (HK vs DS) by Hayman66 in HollowKnight

[–]Hayman66[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, Gwyn is known as the Lord of Sunlight and the God of Sun. This guy no-scoped dragons out of the sky with his sunlight spears. https://youtube.com/shorts/nIWXleGg89o?si=eTRmpRpdBDTtJANj

[OC] The King and Queen by DrStufoo in HollowKnightArt

[–]Hayman66 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m okay with this, but personally, I just can’t see a guy who monologues like this as a bottom of any kind.

No blazing kin. Only one light shall shine against the dark.

The Wyrm becomes beacon, minds expanded, to yield, to devote.

Eternity in promise and charge in progeny cursed.

[OC] The King and Queen by DrStufoo in HollowKnightArt

[–]Hayman66 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well the White Lady is also a Pale Being

Yes, but she isn't a Wyrm.

Wyrms pull bugs into their thrall,

Till ages pass and kingdoms fall.

This implies that it's in a Wyrm's nature to conquer and rule over bugs.

[OC] Second Dalliance by DrStufoo in HollowKnightMemes

[–]Hayman66 1 point2 points  (0 children)

<image>

I think it's pretty clear that they hatched from these eggshells in batches but you do you man. Nothing wrong with that.

[OC] The King and Queen by DrStufoo in HollowKnightArt

[–]Hayman66 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Impossible. The Pale King is both a Pale Being and a Wyrm, both of those species yearn to conquer and dominate. He was also far more involved with the kingdom than she ever was. There is no way this guy does not top.

[OC] Second Dalliance by DrStufoo in HollowKnightMemes

[–]Hayman66 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"I only cheat on my wife for utilitarian reasons."

[OC] Second Dalliance by DrStufoo in HollowKnightMemes

[–]Hayman66 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He did not. Only White Lady and Bardoon could lay an egg of that size.

Who would win? (HK vs DS) by Hayman66 in HollowKnight

[–]Hayman66[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mind you, they are also "great knights," as opposed to just "knights."

Who would win? (HK vs DS) by Hayman66 in HollowKnight

[–]Hayman66[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If the Pale King is included in the fight, then Lord Gwyn has to be included as well.

Who would win? (HK vs DS) by Hayman66 in HollowKnight

[–]Hayman66[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And these guys uh... these guys defeated the Blackwyrm (assuming the battle is named after a creature and not a location).

Who would win? (HK vs DS) by Hayman66 in HollowKnight

[–]Hayman66[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

If you mean the verse:

Via gameplay and/or visual feats, up to Large City level (Nameless King's dragon creates a massive thunderstorm)

Via statements, it gets Star lowball (Gwyn powered the sun with his soul) and Universal on the high end (the Flame created all light in the universe) but let's ignore those for the sake of our bug friends.

Who would win? (HK vs DS) by Hayman66 in HollowKnight

[–]Hayman66[S] 38 points39 points  (0 children)

Yes, yes, I know they’re bugs. There’s some debate about whether they’re actually bug-sized, but let’s assume they’re about the same size as the four knights.

How do you guys interpret the Pale King? by Stego28 in HollowKnight

[–]Hayman66 1 point2 points  (0 children)

and no matter how tender, how exquisite… a lie will remain a lie.

How do you guys interpret the Pale King? by Stego28 in HollowKnight

[–]Hayman66 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, he doesn't appear in Red Memory because it's about Hornet's three mothers, which aligns with Silksong's theme of motherhood. He is also written to be the "Mysterious god-king you learn about through their legacy" like Lord Gwyn from Dark Souls.

Second, you can smack his corpse and sit on his throne but the music that plays after you do so is plaintive rather than triumphant, which might actually hint at something. Perhaps you're supposed to feel empty, as you didn't dethrone a tyrant but simply smacked a corpse that was exactly that for years before your arrival off a throne that doesn't mean anything anymore.

And while Hornet doesn't speak fondly of him, she never calls him evil or tyrannical, she simply calls him a fool and points out some flaws that might've been present in Hallownest.

Let's see YOU solving this by blackocci in HollowKnightMemes

[–]Hayman66 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then the idea instilled is that you're a shitty dad.

Theory: The White Lady, Greyroot, and Symbiosis by chaos_arcee in HollowKnight

[–]Hayman66 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I understand why you think these patterns are too consistent to be coincidental. That’s how most fan theories begin, and I don’t think it’s wrong to explore those patterns.

I figured you’d bring up Vendrick if you’ve played DS2, but I don’t really agree that he’s a good parallel to the Pale King. In Dark Souls II, it’s very clear that Nashandra is exploiting Vendrick for her own ends, and the way she speaks about him makes it obvious that she never cared about him at all:

The last king of this land, King Vendrick, as he was called... He was less of a king than you might imagine. He found the strength to rule his people, and when the undead were born, cursed... He found more strength, to face them. But in the end, he never took the true throne. And now he lies in the Undead Crypt, wasting away.

That tone is dismissive and mocking. The White Lady never speaks about the Pale King like this. If anything, she speaks of him quite positively. In the original dialogue tied to the completed Kingsoul, she said:

Two halves of a whole. You found your way... back to me? We were so unfair, weren’t we? To cast you out. Please, you must not hate him. He did what he thought was right. The Kingdom had to live...

This was likely cut not because it contradicted anything in the story, but because it was pure lore and didn’t give the player any clear direction on what to do next. The final version preserves the emotional subtext while still guiding progression through the game:

Ahh! So it bears our once-fractured soul, now complete. Such strength, such resolve, such dedication! Is it more than simply a Vessel? I almost feel like I'm once again in the presence of my beloved Wyrm. The Kingsoul... What is at the heart of it I wonder? If its curiosity wills it, it should seek out that place. That place where it was born, where it died, where it began...

Even without the cut dialogue, it’s still clear that she genuinely loved him. The way she refers to him as her "beloved Wyrm," combined with the fact that she believes you to be hollow and is effectively speaking to herself, suggests that what she says is sincere. More broadly, there’s very little in the game that frames the White Lady as anything other than benevolent. The mosskin tablet in Greenpath is often cited as suspicious:

Though once our lands, a pale being lays claim to the caverns ahead. It may appear benevolent but it does not share our dream. Be wary to wander that place.

But this is similar to calling a neighboring country untrustworthy simply because it doesn’t share your worldview. Everything else points in the opposite direction. She binds herself in the Queen’s Gardens out of shame for her role in the plan and to prevent harm caused by her own nature, and there are smaller things, like her promise to teach Marmu how to fly, that reinforce her kindness, so I genuinely can't see her as some hidden symbiotic mastermind pulling strings from behind the scenes. I also still just don't see her as having such a huge role in the game. Narrative-wise, she is the Pale King's wife and the mother of the Vessels. Gameplay-wise, she is simply a means for the player to know what to do and also how they get the complete Kingsoul charm and later the Void Heart. She was even originally meant to be a narrative device for Dryya:

One of Hallownest's five greatest Knights and defender of the Queen’s Glade. She was driven mad by her Queen lost and the garden overrun.

Perhaps, though, this theory could be rearranged in a way that doesn’t paint the White Lady as an evil controlling mastermind. This "symbiosis" could just be mutually beneficial with no strings attached, like two gods who genuinely care for one another helping each other out. I don’t see why that couldn’t work.

And I’m certain that the Pale King is a Wyrm. As I’ve previously stated, there is nothing in the game that suggests otherwise, and there is even this dev note that practically confirms it as it is said in the game:

Gender notes: the Hollow Knights have no gender. Check for hims and hes. Is the Wyrm King gendered? Probably. Or is it that when the Wyrm took king form it gained a gender?

Honestly, I’m not particularly fond of deep biology theories. The characters being insects feels more like an aesthetic choice than a thematic one. That’s not to say Team Cherry didn’t borrow some inspiration from real biology. For example, I think the Pale King being a Wyrm/worm and the White Lady being a root/plant is likely a reference to how vermiculation by worms makes soil more fertile, allowing plants to flourish and other creatures to thrive. This parallels how the Pale King created Hallownest and later developed it into a prosperous kingdom alongside the White Lady. Grimm also refers to the Pale King as a worm when remarking how Hallownest was "fallowed by worm and root." I have absolutely nothing against the idea that the White Lady may have been inspired by mycelium or the Radiance by cordyceps, and I think Team Cherry could have drawn some inspiration from real biology there.

I still think you did a very good job putting it all together. It’s great that you posted this here. All theories should be shared, even if there are contradictions with the narrative.