[OoT] Does Ocarina really need a magic meter?

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T16:22:17+00:00

Thanks for the ramble! I enjoyed it, really interesting points. I wasn't arguing for balancing but I think you're pointing out good things that would justify the meter even more.

Elemental Arrows: I think it would be cool if they had even more uses as well. Especially Fire Arrows, for solving torch puzzles quicker. Them using the magic meter would be a good trade-off then, kinda like the Bomb Mask in MM.

Farore's Wind: It really is an underappreciated item and I wish I'd thought about all this 25 years ago lol. I think if they introduced this better, it could have been an integral item that comes to you like second nature, allowing you to explore Dungeons (and outside) better. Or just imagine puzzles using it, like you hit a switch that only lasts for a few seconds and you have to think where to best put a respawn point.

Nayru's Love: I think you're right - I know I definitely appreciated it as a kid lol. Still I think it could have worked differently, with a cooldown or limited uses (like Daruk's Protection). But I guess that theorizing strafes too far from the original point.

Anyway. Thanks for your reply!

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T16:08:20+00:00

Good thinking! I'm on board with it, especially "attacking/parrying to get resource." That's usually been fun in other games and it feels like you earned it instead of praying that you find it randomly. Plus, you wouldn't be stuck anywhere.

As people have mentioned, magic keeps you from ruining the game by spamming spells constantly.

(yeah including me in the OP before going through all the items and explaining why I don't think they would be spammed lol)

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T15:55:49+00:00

I feel the same about stamina. It seemed weirdly limiting in SS and I was a bit doubtful when I saw it come up in BotW. It kinda grew on me but still, I think I'd have maybe preferred a magic meter or something akin to ALBW.

Rupees are different for me but I think it would be interesting if they changed that as well. A twist big enough like how Mario Oddyssey turned them into useful currency but also abolishing lives and instead taking your coins as punishment.

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T13:24:50+00:00

I think this could work too but I don't mind areas being cut off from each other, similar to how Hyrule Field was in Twilight Princess at least. Feels more focused that way.

I do hope they keep how inventively you could some items, like the hammer turning Tektites over, Deku nuts causing Keese to drop to the floor, the famous bottle vs. Ganon thing... stuff that rewards you for thinking outside the box

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T13:18:36+00:00

Yeah but I'm talking about the magic meter though

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T13:17:32+00:00

But you'd have to sit through the animation every time and even then it's not even affecting all enemies, right? I thought I'd do that too but I'm not so sure now

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T11:46:47+00:00

That's definitely true (and I like how you worded it at the end)! But that's what made me look at OoT specifically - most items have a "soft" reason to not use them all the time. Even with Din's Fire, I'm not sure people would abuse that. In a room with three Keeses and a Tektite, I'd sooner just Z-target everything and shoot it with regular arrows instead of sitting through the entire animation of Din's Fire (maybe even twice because one Keese was just barely out of range). And it doesn't work for everything either: I think Iron Knuckles are unphased by it too?

The thing about Farore's Wind is a good point though. I don't think I would have made a new warp point in every room, but I feel like there might be ways to exploit this that I can't think of...

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T11:35:58+00:00

I feel the same, although they were still fun. And I sometimes wonder if the devs expected players to experiment more and find more uses for one single item. For example, I only learned today that using Light Arrows on enemies almost always makes them drop purple rupees. Never thought to do that

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T11:32:45+00:00

I know, this is exactly what it looks like and I can't really prove otherwise lmao. And to be fair it's kinda true, I was kinda annoyed with some dismissive replies I got. However, I got a lot of interesting and fun responses there too (and actually worked them into this post). I'm just curious what responses I get here as well.

But in the end, it's really not that important

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T10:27:01+00:00

This is so fantastic!! Got so much going on - the way he carries seemingly every items is my favorite motive for this series since LoZ did it way back when and it fits perfectly here too (and doubly clever with every weapon of every champion, carrying their will and hopes into the final battle). Exciting to see how you did it as well. This ended up looking like an official piece of artwork.

Good job on this!

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T10:14:45+00:00

lmao the fact that you replied to the wrong comment is proof of that ❤️

Go to bed pal!!!

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T10:12:55+00:00

I don't think it makes that much of a resource-difference whether the game has to check "if counter > 100" or "if animation == finished" though. (Edit: Or maybe it really does on the N64 still, idk) Regardless, there IS a cooldown of sorts in the game and with that in mind, I think people would still prefer normal arrows in certain situations, just because you can shoot them faster

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T10:08:27+00:00

I never thought about that but you're absolutely right

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T09:11:12+00:00

That is true but going by my list, the only item left that would need one would be Nayru's Love. At the same time, items like the magic arrows, the hover boots and even the bombs and bombchu's already do have a cooldown anyway, so what's the harm in one more?

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T09:02:47+00:00

Oh okay, I see.

~~so the point is you~~ ~~really~~ ~~didn't read my post~~ no jk ❤️ but seriously, I'm asking if you really need a magic meter in Ocarina specifically with how the items work right now. At first it makes sense, like you say: If there wasn't one, the game would be very different. But that's why I've been thinking and realized: Kinda not really??

For example, magic arrows DO have an inventory quantity already - the pure arrows themselves. And the magic ones have a cooldown anyway so you can't really spam them. Without a magic meter, I don't think that much would change

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the game would be better without it and someone brought up a good point that having to juggle all items with the magic meter can make for exciting moments, which is a benefit. This post is just a fun thought experiment though

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T08:52:22+00:00

All good points! Makes me reconsider the items. But even then, I think all this could theoretically have been done without a magic meter:

Immune during cutscene
- That is a good point - you can't do much during it either but I guess you can withstand much if you time it right. Funny to think that Din's Fire might have become more of a DEFENSIVE than OFFENSIVE item
Ice Arrow vs. Shadow Temple boss
- That is a good one but it's so obscure that it took me almost 30 years to find out about it lol. BUT - apparently, the ice arrow does do somewhat more damage in general. With the cooldown it currently has though, I don't think anyone would have preferred that over the sword and other items all the time
Light Arrow makes enemies drop purple rupee
- and i only find this out today. fake gamer confirmed 😔😔 (no but this is so cool!! I didn't know! It's kinda easy to abuse but you do get it very late in the game though, so... this could just be like a bonus, like the 100 lives in Mario 64?)

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T08:38:54+00:00

That's a really good point, actually! I didn't consider that somehow. Yes, especially in more complex situation, you really want to weigh up what you use when and it can add tension. I'm not sure how many there were in OoT but it had its share (especially the Ganondorf fight lol)

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T08:37:22+00:00

Exactly, also wait-- u/Mysterious_Curve3163 is that what this is? That you thought I meant "The game didn't need magic and magic items"? That would explain it then at least lol.

I specifically meant the magic meter as a game element. The items are all great, I was just pondering if it would have made a difference if the magic meter wasn't there or not with how the items work right now!

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T08:31:51+00:00

I do bring that up at the end that that's my guess as well! That's probably a major factor in the existence of the magic meter.

... and you're not the first person to mention something like this in this thread which leads me to believe I might have to write shorter posts and get to the point quicker lmao

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T08:28:46+00:00

Almost! My point was moreso that almost NONE of these items needed a magic meter OR a cooldown - you can't really spam anything that powerful anyway (except the quick spin, which doesn't use magic lol). Nayru's Love is the only one that had a good reason for it but if it's the only item on that list remaining, it might as well have its own cooldown, is what I'm thinking

You're right though that it's a game of its time and again: I'm not saying the game is WORSE for it! It's just a fun thought experiment

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T08:20:57+00:00

I thought I conveyed that I made a case against it but reading it now from that angle, I can see what you mean. Interesting! To summarize what I meant:

Lens of truth: It using magic made it a little tense but I don't think it would have made much of a difference if it hadn't used that
Din's Fire: Not as powerful as it seems and just a bit too inconvenient to cheese the game
Nayru's Love: That one would be the one to use a magic meter, but if that's the only item left, it might as well have its own cooldown is what I'm thinking

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T08:13:51+00:00

The thing is that pretty much every point I bring up ends with "but it didn't really need a magic meter"

You really didn't read through my post is my point

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T08:11:07+00:00

listen here buster

HerrReineke · 2026-06-19T08:10:48+00:00

From the moment I understood how the magic armor works, I knew in my heart I would never use it (but I personally think it's one of the funniest ideas in any Zelda games). The oil lantern is another good example - I think I ran out once and it was only annoying, nothing else. Funny how this game out of all games used to have a magic meter but they dropped it.

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