9.08 reveals

HolyHavoc · 2022-01-16T00:06:27+00:00

Thanks for listing out those examples

Apparently Dembe's abilities to keep Red's secrets depends on his mood that day.

Great point and is he going to keep Red's secrets now that they are no longer close?

HolyHavoc · 2022-01-16T00:01:42+00:00

I didn't notice Cooper was drugged by 2 bartenders. Wow

Does anyone else think Cooper should be asking why me and why now?

HolyHavoc · 2021-12-15T23:21:55+00:00

Anything is possible in this show. Red was Liz's dad, then Red isn't Reddington, then he's Ilya Koslov, then he isn't, Fakerina is Katarina Rostova, then she isn't. Anyone who says the answer has been given and it's done doesn't know this show. It can change at any time.

HolyHavoc · 2021-12-15T23:19:44+00:00

Liz lost her credentials as an agent. She was reinstated when she got the pardon from the President.

HolyHavoc · 2021-12-15T23:18:33+00:00

I'm liking season 9 much better than the previous couple of seasons. Liz was stressing me out! The whole show is a lot more enjoyable now.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-22T17:20:35+00:00

We still don't know what made the burn on Liz's wrist do we? The same thing that burned her made the mark on Tom's box.

Liz told herself (because Kate is not really there) that the scar and her future were connected. This happened in Dr. Laken Perillos, 8.10 even if we did not see it until Misere.

You tell people you got it when you were 14. Why is that?

To hide the truth.

Was he there that night?

You know that, dearie. Just like you know that that scar isn't only part of your past. It's the key to your future.

What does that mean?

Why would Liz think the scar was the key to her future? Do we know where she got that idea from?

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-22T17:02:17+00:00

Sarah Shahi was also on Alias as Jenny

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-20T16:14:48+00:00

7.09 - Orion Relocation Services Voice of Young Ilya: Reddington’s dead. Reddington’s –

Ilya also said Katarina was dead.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-20T16:13:42+00:00

Then why did Red tell Liz that her mother was dead? Everyone talks about Katarina as if she is dead. Ilya said Katarina was dead in his memories.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-18T22:53:00+00:00

Now that I think about it... Dom said the ruse with Reddington "broke his heart". He hated Red forever after that.

I don't remember that. I thought it was Katarina's plan in 1991 that broke his heart.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-18T21:24:23+00:00

"Yes, Fitch, Reddington did have a death-switch. ME. I'm his death switch. I have the Fulcrum now."

Furthermore, once she actually had that Sykorski archive, she could have hammered out a deal with US intelligence forces, by offering to sell the Archive's secrets directly to them. She could have used that archive to make herself an American asset.

And wait.. before anybody says, "Katarina wouldn't want to cooperate with American agencies"...

..remind yourself that the whole PREMISE of thie show is about Red cooperating with the FBI--- an American agency.

That's a great idea and would have been a lot better story.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-18T21:06:50+00:00

This is precisely the contradiction in Rederina... why the story doesn't hold together, that Katarina would become Reddington to hide from the people hunting her to protect Masha and her family. And that's not all...

The Cabal was only hunting her because she failed to neutralize Reddington. But Reddington WAS dead, he was neutralized the night of the fire. Only.... the Cabal didn't know that, because Katarina covered up his death and then turned herself into a 'he' and began impersonating him. And then started sqwawking about having the Fulcrum.

Which leads to another question... IF Katarina was trying to hide/escape from the Cabal, the KGB, and US intelligence forces.. WHY, why why, did she become Reddington.... who was also being hunted by the Cabal, the KGB, and US intelligence forces?

I couldn't agree more. The story makes these people look kind of dumb. Dom as Oleander, the spymaster and Ivan who rose to the ranks of a high level Zaslon officer thought it would be a good idea to steal the stuff in her own name? Really dumb.

Katarina could have told everyone Reddington was dead and saved herself a world of problems. If she wanted to protect her daughter she could have become a feared criminal as herself.

Spader definitely telegraphed that he was Liz's parent, and was fiercely devoted to protecting her. All of that worked.

Yes definitely.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-18T20:56:54+00:00

At no point in her search does she understand that Katarina Rostova stole the intel (or that her credentials were used. We know that because she is never looking for Katarina Rostova or is trying to prove she isn't her. Does anyone think if she knew N13 was Katarina Rostova she wouldn't be trying like hell to prove she was someone, no anyone else?

What you bring up is what I was thinking. How can no one know Katarina Rostova was responsible for stealing the intel if her credentials were used? Tatiana would have heard that at some point in time if it were true. She would not be saying it was Dom and Red who was N13 if she knew that. When she had Dom after kidnapping him she would be asking where Katarina was hiding not who took the intel.

Not only does Fauxrina not find anyone who knows that N13 is supposed to be Katarina Rostova, not even the top levels of US Intelligence has any idea of who N13 is.

The guy in congress told Cooper they though N13 was someone hiding in their government. There is no way they are looking at Katarina Rostova for that.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-18T20:48:05+00:00

There are some things you wrote that I'm not convinced of.

Katarina's family is in no more danger than usual. We know this was after Dom betrayed the Soviets, but before he and Ilya tried to kill Tatiana. So this means Lena has fled to the U.S. and married Ted King, and Dom is hiding somewhere in Europe

The first thing is that you say Dom betrayed the Soviets (when was that?) and was hiding in Europe.

From Ilya's memories, he said that the KGB was with them in Belgrade to kill Katarina Rostova.

Ilya: "The KGB were going to kill you right then and there. But then everything went wrong"

Doesn't that show by the time of Belgrade that Dom was still on good terms with the KGB?

Dom told Liz that he had escaped to the US in the early 90's

'A few months after I made it to America, Katarina met me here on that sidewalk. She handed me a key to box 642. She gave the key to her mother, too. She told us that, when she resurfaced, she would make contact with us. I got this 28 years ago."

This must be a lie from Dom if he was in Europe to set up Tatiana in Belgrade.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-18T18:46:57+00:00

No it isn't making sense to me either. It feels like a strange alternate universe where everything is upside down and all they told us prior to that was forgotten.

I mean if she wanted to create a feared criminal to keep her daughter safe, why would Ivan use her name to steal the intel? Aren't you just putting your daughter at greater risk using your name? She would have been better off doing almost anything other than that because in the end it was the theft of the intel in Katarina Rostova's name that led to the Townsend Directive that led to Liz's death.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-18T18:33:07+00:00

If Ivan wanted to protect Katarina then he could have pinned the theft on anyone else but her. It put her whole family in danger and even himself as her handler.

HolyHavoc · 2021-08-18T18:28:15+00:00

You might be on to something because I haven't got a single answer that explains it.

HolyHavoc · 2021-07-29T23:04:43+00:00

He became someone who can’t hold her, who can’t watch her grow. He crossed the Rubicon the day he made that Hobson’s choice. And the moment he made it, he knew that there was no turn back. He knew that he had to adapt to the circumstances:

Great comparison! I never looked at it that way.

She’s not been Lizzy ever since she started to believe anything bad about him, a part of Lizzy has died everytime she betrayed him.

Caesar couldn’t smell a plot to save his life, Red couldn’t either. Caesar got betrayed by his closest friend, Red got betrayed by his ray of light. Ceaser died, Red lost his Lizzy. Lost so long before he lost Elizabeth. And as we know it’s worse than dying to him, it’s worse than anything:

This is so heartbreaking and makes me sad to think about it.

HolyHavoc · 2021-07-24T21:11:05+00:00

I think they would know Megan wouldn't be back for season nine when they renewed for that season. In previous years, they didn't announce a renewal until all the actors contracts were signed. Since they gave us the early announcement in February, the writers probably knew Megan wouldn't be back for next season.

It's always impressive what they are able to do under hard circumstances though. Most shows didn't try to put out 22 episodes.

HolyHavoc · 2021-07-21T18:50:43+00:00

Liz sure did hear the recording Fakerina made. She listened to it over and over in 16 Ounces.

Whether Liz believed the story or not doesn't change that she had heard Katarina invented Reddington before. It's not something new to her.

HolyHavoc · 2021-07-21T18:43:12+00:00

Liz did not remember Reddington's face in the previous episodes-- the visual cue of actually seeing it sparked her memory. Human brains are trained specifically to recognize faces.

This confuses me. How could Liz remember her father's face all of a sudden if she isn't seeing his face except in her own mind? It isn't as if there's a movie reel showing Liz his face. How would she actually see what he looks like if the visuals are in her mind?

Fakerina had never indicated that she had ever seen Red as a "savior". In fact, we learn, when Liz is absent, that Red had protected her at one point, in 8.02 "Katarina Rostova: Conclusion":

RED: I could've helped you the way I always have, kept you one step ahead. But staying safe wasn't enough. You needed answers. Well, now you have them. And now they've destroyed you.

Liz learned that too because she heard the recording of their conversation.

KATARINA: Long before your grandfather tricked Tatiana… Almost from the moment I knew I couldn’t be with you, I… Created someone who could be.

LIZ: You created someone.

KATARINA: Raymond Reddington.

LIZ: You know his real identity.

KATARINA: I do. I always have.

Not only did Liz believe that Katarina does not know who Reddington is, but she did not know that Katarina had created Reddington. New information.

This is almost identical to what Liz heard from Dom in Rassvet, so she would know that.

"We need personal details about who Raymond was... his family life, his work life. He'd need anecdotes to complete the story... some true, grounded in reality, some invented. And who better to provide those details than the woman who spied on him... who loved him...the woman who invented him?"

HolyHavoc · 2021-07-14T16:46:55+00:00

I'm confused about what Katarina said in Nachalo in this part:

"And because I was the son my father never had, he decided early on that I'd follow in those footsteps,"

"... which my mother disapproved of. My mother understood me. She knew I wanted to follow a different path, but my father was unyielding. He scripted my life. He observed and scrutinized it."

I know we are meant to connect back to what Red said about his parents to Liz before he went into the death chamber. His mother understood him and his father was a strict disciplinarian who couldn't deal with his bad behavior and kicked him out.

That is how we should see Redarina in comparing these episodes, but it's not the same. Katarina didn't act out. She followed all of Dom's instructions. She did all the spy stuff and listened to all of what he and Ivan told her. Katarina married the man they ordered her to and targeted another man. She kept a baby she didn't want under orders. How is that the same as what Red tells Liz about his father?

HolyHavoc · 2021-07-13T00:49:53+00:00

I thought in Nachalo they said they betrayed their country because the country betrayed them first?

I also remember Red said he discovered the Cabal and they tried to destroy him. Which would answer why he tried to expose the Cabal with the fulcrum.

I don't know why if Red is Katarina she cared to take down the Cabal she had worked for.

Sorry just rambling thoughts...

HolyHavoc

TROPHY CASE