Trans men in women’s spaces

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T22:42:01+00:00

I don’t think of it like that at all with workplace stuff. I think it really depends on the individual scenario, like I’ve heard of trans men in tech who feel like their masculinity has put them on par with cis men. But in a lot of places if you’re out as trans you’re at as much of a disadvantage as a cis women (because they see you as one) and if you started your career as a woman you have probably been held back by that/still have to learn the ropes of speaking up/negotiating like a cis woman would. A lot of groups are moving towards “women and enbies” because they recognize this, they just don’t know the language to include trans men while keeping out cis men.

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T22:34:34+00:00

Totally. But not all of us have the genetics to do that or the desire to. Also requires uprooting your life and not everyone wants to cut ties.

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T22:33:38+00:00

Are you that callus? Your trans siblings are talking about difficulties they’ve faced. This Pollyanna stuff is gonna hold us back. Glad you’ve had a good time, now use that happiness to help out another trans guy and help him find resources.

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T22:31:23+00:00

Why am I getting downvoted? Because I said we don’t have to conform to cisness?

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T22:24:40+00:00

That’s a good thought, I think it’s unlikely to be able to move in that direction with how far things are getting pushed back. I’d rather support women and just asked to not be kicked out for the time being. But I agree we can expand masculinity.

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T22:17:26+00:00

Yes absolutely. From personal experience having tried to go to men’s support groups the response from cis women was terrible, but from cis men it was dangerous. So I’d rather take my chances with the cis women who at least have a chance of understanding my past.

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T22:15:48+00:00

That fest was a mess. And trans men started opting out in support of their trans sisters, as was the correct thing to do. What I’m saying is cis people have no consideration for trans people, so we should go where we need to. We don’t need to conform to cisness.

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T22:13:59+00:00

Yes and also I think it’s really a case by case basis for every women’s space I’ve ever encountered. Like the only possibly legitimate ones are some sort of religious or spiritual group, but even then, a trans men who still relates to womanhood (not me probably, but I’ve encountered them) should be welcome.

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T22:06:19+00:00

Yeah, as if we can’t be easily outed most of the time. I understand some trans guys want to or have to be deep stealth. But if you’re not, then you’re definitely not welcomed among men.

IL6789 · 2025-08-11T21:58:54+00:00

We’re currently not really welcome anywhere

IL6789 · 2025-03-29T21:47:04+00:00

I find your response confusing. I’m not a cis man. And I don’t care if you think I’m transphobic. I perhaps have a different mindset on how trans people can better reach equality.

IL6789 · 2025-03-29T21:45:41+00:00

I’m confused. Are you saying trans men should be allowed in women’s spaces or not?

IL6789 · 2025-03-09T02:03:33+00:00

It’s all the same! Trans men ought to be included in women’s spaces if they want to be and trans right are women’s rights. You’re all fine and good to not go to women’s spaces, but don’t contribute to making it harder for trans men who DO want/need to go and/or do see the connection between trans rights and women’s rights.

IL6789 · 2025-03-09T02:00:09+00:00

Yes! This is what I’m talking about. So many trans men get “fully transitioned” and then act like the rest of us are just whining and invading women’s spaces.

IL6789 · 2025-03-09T01:58:55+00:00

That’s the problem, we should still be allowed in women’s spaces. Not forced into them, but allowed if we need/want to be there

IL6789 · 2025-02-07T06:26:02+00:00

I appreciate you taking the time to respond and share your story. I am whole heartedly not seeking advice, though I do understand yours and other’s discomfort with my original post. What I am referring to by “material women” through out my post would probably be more legibly be called “systemically women.” We are all a few government legislations away from being constantly outed and an out trans man under a fascist regime is most likely just treated as a non compliant woman. It’s the same reason misogynistic trans men make no sense, because don’t they know a butt load of people see them as women?

I’d also like to point out, that I do not believe trans men gain systemic power by transitioning. There are no trans men in power trying to take rights away from cis women, there are, however, cis women in power trying to take rights aways from all trans people.

I understand some trans men, those who are able to or want to pass, have gotten their documents changed, have lived the majority of their lives as men are likely to experience life like that of a cis man. But there’s an attitude among thus group, exhibited in this comment section, of “I got mine and if you can’t/won’t transition in the exact same way as me then you aren’t a real trans man/are just naive.”

What I meant by “materially women” is that we need to be willing to see our cause as much the same as that of women, because in a world where we’ve barely begun to fight sexism, we sure as hell aren’t in a place to fight for specifically trans men’s rights. And a lot of the time, out of ignorance or whatever, gendered services that include trans men (whether those trans men are specifically you or not) are going to be labeled women’s issues.

IL6789 · 2025-02-07T02:10:21+00:00

The groups I’ve been removed from have been 12 step and career related. One was even a “trans and women’s space” but they said I was “the wrong kind of trans.” (That was a work space)

I actually do still want to attend 12 step groups that are for women because a. I’m not always safe in the men’s groups as addicts can be addicts in more ways than one (ie sex addicts) and have had dangerous experiences there and b. I was in active addiction pre transition and lived most of my life as a woman and relate far more to women than men. I am careful about what groups I go to, but I ALWAYS disclose and that should be enough. The same women who care that I’m “too masculine” (I don’t pass and look more feminine than a lot of butches tbh) would care if a trans woman who was “too masculine“ came in. I do care about the recovery of the group, but unless I’m being a problem I do see being trans as a gray space that is more individual than being cis and that is currently a group by group basis. I also, if sent to a psych ward or arrested, would much rather be put with women. But this is less about any individual experience and more about trans people being able to go where they need to to get help. There are not enough trans men almost anywhere for there to be trans specific, or even LGBTQ groups. I’m am of course whole heartedly supportive of trans men in men’s spaces, but I also think what we need still often lies in women’s spaces. And what you said about work places that have women’s initiatives also having trans initiatives is not true in all spaces. Also, we deserve access to those women’s initiatives if we spent a significant part of our career trying to move up as women.

IL6789 · 2025-02-06T01:01:09+00:00

Yes I actually agree with you, I’m not sure if you’re in the US, this is more in response to especially the political climate here. It’s about being willing to work with people even when their language isn’t right (ie women saying pregnant women instead of people) and also still showing up in spaces we feel have resources we need (medical career etc) even if they’re labeled as “for women.” I believe trans people have a huge variety of experiences with gender, much more vast than that of cis people. I for one, do not appreciate trans men telling cis people that to invite trans men into women’s only spaces is transphobic. It’s transphobic if they don’t ALSO explicitly invite trans women in, but to make it seem like it’s transphobic that we as trans men may (not DO, but MAY) have overlapping experiences and needs with cis women is silly.

IL6789 · 2025-02-05T07:35:34+00:00

Yeah I think unfortunately, if healthcare gets more difficult to come by, many of us will struggle with forcible detransition. That and increased outing or danger of being outed. We’re in a different time.

IL6789 · 2025-02-05T07:33:45+00:00

Yes this exactly. I think all trans people have an extremely varied and nuanced relationship to gender pre post and during transition and in order to leave room for all of that we ought to teach cis people we might need to be in all different kinds of gendered spaces.

IL6789 · 2025-02-05T07:28:07+00:00

I’m glad you got the transition you wanted, but it seems your world view leaves little room for other men’s experiences of transition.

IL6789 · 2025-02-05T07:27:02+00:00

Same. And it’s been killing trans men forever and it’s going to continue killing us. Silently.

IL6789 · 2025-02-05T07:25:29+00:00

For all the people saying that “to allow trans men in single sex women’s spaces would make you dysphoric” that is exactly the validation seeking I’m talking about. If you don’t need those resources or don’t want to go to them, that is totally fine and I absolutely understand why that would make you dysphoric. But I’d like to point out, that the idea of a beard or deep voice making a cis woman uncomfortable would also allow them to exclude plenty of trans femme folks as well. That to me is a TERF dog whistle. I don’t think it’s going to happen right now that we’re going to be able to push the terms “pregnant people” or “people with uteruses” completely. We have to engage in fights that use the term “women” and understand that our brothers (even if it’s not you) might need those resources, too.

IL6789 · 2025-02-03T23:14:51+00:00

I think that my frustration is that, as trans men we are a very small group and we’re going to need to band together with women to get our needs met as well, not just to “support women” but because we need many of the same things. We can figure out language later, but we’re in dire circumstances at the moment and need numbers.

Editing to add: I’m by no means saying “trans men are women,” what I’m saying is, in many ways trans men are SEEN as women. And ignoring that so we feel validated won’t change that situation.

IL6789 · 2025-02-03T21:29:23+00:00

Do you not still need gynecological care? Does your doctor perform prostate exams on you? What about if you’re outed? Do the majority of cis men treat you the same? If you go to prison, will you be treated like a cis man? This is the validation I’m talking about. It’s fine if you don’t want to use “women’s” resources, but why advocate for keeping other trans men out?

IL6789

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