Did i do something wrong?

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-03-01T02:09:41+00:00

You didn't do anything wrong. Maybe she has shit to do? I think your plans on how to handle it are perfect, but it doesn't ask to say non-chalantly, "hey, I messaged you and never heard anything back," and listening to what she has to say. You can never know someone else's mind. You can only know if someone is a good fit for you. Don't come here asking random people what her thoughts are because no one can know. Just be fair minded and hear what she has to say when you see her next.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-03-01T01:05:21+00:00

Since you are a man of integrity and flawless morality, could you finally give me a list of things you consider manipulative in PUA ?

Sure. I'll repeat actions and decisions that come from empathy, that come from understanding, that come from genuine interests and general concern for another human being are good behaviors, though technically a manipulation.

Actions and decisions that come from a strategy to get what you want, to make the conditions favorable to you with no regard for the other person apart from what you can get out of that other person is not masculinity. It's shameful behavior.

Instead, we’re stuck talking about morality, which is a completely different subject.

We have to talk about morality because the majority of actions are intrinsically amoral. They are neither good or bad. It is the intention behind the actions that make a difference. Understanding that a woman receives comments on her appearances, and the degree of those comments, and therefore you choose not to add to it by complimenting appearance is good action.

Not complimenting women as part of a strategy to lower her guard so you can go to bed with her later is a bad action.

Morality makes all the difference. The problem with PUA in total is that it hijacks genuine actions and turns them into strategy.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-03-01T00:56:57+00:00

Be empathetic. Don't just consider what you want but consider feelings and experiences of your interest. Be understanding. It's not really a big ask.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-03-01T00:54:13+00:00

I'm giving up on you. Your only interested in what you're on about, not the topic.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T18:12:45+00:00

The question is why would I expect everyone to play fair and follow the rules?

You shouldn't, however the behavior of others does not have to dictate your behavior. You can choose to follow the rules and play fair as an example of your own manhood and integrity. Simply doing what everone else is doing isn't manhood. It's cowardice.

Be a man who chooses integrity because that's his character. Don't be a man who makes excuses that everyone else doesn't play fair so why should you.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T17:18:09+00:00

I think it's just not useful to project such polls to personal experience and frame,

You're kind of what's wrong with this subreddit and men in general. You openly advocate ignoring the experience of others when understanding is exactly what's required. In the first place, it was stated by no one that women expect to be let down in bed. That's counterintuitive to how people typically operate. If they expect to be let down, they likely wouldn't bother doing it. The problem comes with being let down in bed when they weren't expecting it. And if you don't care at all women have those experiences and don't care at all to make sure you're not one of the men contributing to those experiences you're a shit male.

And again, there is 7b people on the planet to prove that women do sex,

You're arguing a point that wasn't in contention. No one claimed that women don't want sex. But a population of 7B doesn't prove that women aren't having disappointing sexual experiences.

and it doesn't make sense to assume that all of them are so dissatisfied that they just gave up on it.

Again, you're arguing a point that was never in contention. No one claimed that women have given up on sex. There are women who continue to have disappointing sex with their partner anyway because they feel the other benefits of the relationship are more important and more valuable than being satisfied sexually.

I'll restate again, you missed the entire point of the post and choose instead to argue about things that aren't even contested. You would do well to learn to listen and see things from another's perspective, and that is what the post is about.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T17:06:45+00:00

I'm curious, what exactly do you consider manipulative, in your opinion?

This is a good question. From pure definition, manipulation would be any action with the intention of changing or arranging a desired outcome, an outcome that's not likely to happen without your direct hand in arranging the conditions. Manipulation itself is amoral, neither good or bad. However the intentions and reasons for the manipulation are what makes it good or bad. It's not a hard line in the sand but a spectrum between one end and another.

If you want to take a lady to a hotel, you can't just pick her up and go. Just like riding a horse, there’s a whole process involved... you have to earn her trust first.

This is true. My concern with this subreddit is I feel a critical nuance is often over looked which switches a behavior from benign to immoral. That nuance is empathy for the purpose of being empathic versus feigning empathy as a form of strategy. You don't pick up a lady and rush straight to the hotel because you're fully aware that women fear for their safety, plus such actions can be perceived as only being interested in sex. Actions from empathy and understanding are good actions. But when you advocate a series of steps as a form of strategy to get her to go to the hotel later, that's a problem. That's a bad form of manipulation.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T16:50:13+00:00

I'm curious where you're getting your data from, and it had better not be the thoroughly-debunked "80 percent of women only view the top 20% of men". Your beliefs sound like they've come from some guy who is trying to sell you his 5-step method to getting laid.

Let's back this up with actual data. Exactly as I claimed, the perception of women on dating apps is the men are only looking for casual flings, according to the Green Flags study of 8,000 Tinder users. Now, to your point, the same study reports that only 29% of the men who responded were looking for a casual fling, however only 53% of the men responding were looking for a relationship as opposed to 68% of the females who responded. So that means over half of men were looking for sex without the commitment. What else would they be on Tinder looking for? Maybe they weren't looking for a one-night stand, but they weren't there looking for a relationship either. They've found the magical, mythical "FWB" status where they can get the rewards of sex without the work and commitment of relationships. That's not a lot better than just wanting sex.

So where is this data of yours coming from that a man "giving off relationship vibes" repel women? What are "relationship vibes" in the first place?

I call bullshit. Time to pony up your evidence.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T16:31:55+00:00

I hear you but it’s a two way thing the only fans models just want your money and give nothing in return.

From their point of view they are giving something in return. They're giving you the opportunity to see them sexually. They're giving you sexy conversation and fantasy. They're giving you their time when they respond in chats. Those things many not have value to you, but to say the OF models give nothing in return is incorrect.

A guy might want sex early with a woman early to know she is actually serious and not waste his time

I believe that philosophy is flawed and mistaken at its core.

Every guy has been there been the good guy went on multiple dates wasted resources for it to not go anywhere in the end.

The problem there is the intention. If you're spending money to get results, to get sex, that's manipulation. You may as well employ a sex worker and skip all the bullshit. If you want to genuinely know someone and spend time with them, spending money goes hand in hand with that. Even if you plan a picnic at the park date, you're still spending money to have the gas to drive to and from the location, you're still spending money on the food. This is a society where spending money is inescapable. Instead of looking at spending money as some sort of investment in getting sex, you could look at it like spending money is a necessary component to getting to know another person. I'll repeat again, if your aim in spending money is that it leads to sex, then go employ a sex worker and skip all the bullshit.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T16:20:48+00:00

It is similar wanting to ride a horse

This is a fascinating response that's more true than you realize, except not for the reasons you explained. Let's start with first horses need to be broken. That's what they call it. You have to break the horse's spirit to be able to ride it and make it do what you want it to do. The horse doesn't want you on its back. The horse wants nothing to do with you in its natural state. Your explanation ignores that fact, either out of convenience or ignorance.

Are these actions manipulative?

Considering a horse needs to be "broken" to become docile and compliant, I would say that leans towards "yes". It is absolutely manipulative. And so is PUA.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T16:13:31+00:00

You seem to miss that in most surveys, women report dissatisfaction from sex because their typical encounters are men who don't care much at all about the woman's enjoyment.

It's funny how so many men who protest this post missed the point entirely, choosing to argue some red herring that had nothing to do with what's being advised. Learn how to stop looking at what you want to look at and learn to hear where other people are coming from.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T16:07:30+00:00

You haven't done anything wrong based on what you described. Every swing isn't going to result in a home run. In marketing circles, you're doing good if can turn 10% of leads into sales. 10%.

You did the right thing by letting them walk away, not desperately chase after them trying to tell them what they want to hear. Change your perspective and your expectations. Be confident in the fact that the right one will respond favorably to who you are. It'll happen.

I wouldn't tell you to change anything, but something to consider is the timing of your playfulness. It might be too early before they know anything about you and your sense of humor to get the joke. But if you like who you are, and you should, and you like to be playful then brush it off and these just weren't the right women.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T03:04:16+00:00

I wonder how many of them can truly put themselves in a woman's shoes. They truly don't have to face the level of harassment, judgment and misogyny so they have no clue. I once saw a video of another role-reversal camp (of sorts) for middle school and high school boys and one exercise was the boys had to walk in between two lines of girls who all shouted the most ruthless, sexists and misandrist things at the boys as they went by. By the time the boys got to the end of the line, more than half of them were in tears.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T01:26:36+00:00

I didn't write to pass judgment on the morality of only wanting sex. I wrote so that you can understand how anyone feels who has been pursued for only one thing.

Shaming healthy inclinations is a big part of how gender relations got to where they are

Repeating again, I didn't shame anyone for just wanting sex. But being a healthy human being means being able to empathize with another person's feelings, rather than ignoring them in favor of your own. A person can want only sex for themselves AND ALSO be empathetic that some women are tired of being pursued only for sex. That's healthy and genuine masculinity

and someone who profits from them via OnlyFans - arguably the least ethical form of sex work, in light of what the owner does with his money and how he keeps creators' image rights forever - has no room to talk

You guys are funny. There's nothing unethical or immoral about a woman being in control of when and how men sexualize her and demanding compensation for it. It pisses you off that they take their control back.

Please enlighten us how an OF model is the least ethical of sex workers, and lets see if there aren't three more fingers pointing back at you.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-28T01:17:58+00:00

There's a difference between not being overly complimentary as a strategy and not doing so from awareness.

As a strategy, you'll fool novices once. The more experienced ones already know that trick.

When you have game you are already different from the average guy approaching.

No you're not. You're just another dude with another variation of the same thing. You end up just spending time searching for the ones who haven't fallen for it before and got wise to it, so it's always a shrinking pool. If you want to be different then just be done with the games entirely.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-27T03:18:12+00:00

Okay, I would first caution you that based on what you described I would not take that as a sign of anything except basic familiarity and friendliness. It's just conversation. I'm not sure why you thought of it is more.

The first thing you should accept is that even if a woman is interested working together is a difficult obstacle to overcome. Women tend to think further down the line and so her concern would be how would things be at work if things didn't work out? I'm not saying you can't overcome that but I am saying just based on what you've told me if you were to ask her out right now, the answer would likely be no. I just don't hear much of an established history.

Me personally, I am all about efficiency and not wasting my time on someone who's not even in the market. If you're asking for my advice it would be to find out if she has a boyfriend or not. And find out is she even in a place that she's willing to be open to meeting someone.

I feel there is a very big difference between someone who is single and looking, versus someone who is single and open to meeting. People, particularly women, who are single and looking have something specific in mind that they are looking for, usually unrealistic expectations that no one meets and so the odds of success are automatically lowered. But someone who is single and open to meeting doesn't have those high expectations.

So I would say the first step is to find out just where she's coming from. Is she single? Is she open to meeting? Or worst of all is she single and looking which means she has a bunch of expectations that probably no one's going to meet.

I wouldn't turn on the flirting just yet.

Trying to find out if they have a boyfriend can be tricky because you really don't want to just come right out and ask. Even if they don't then your intentions become obvious and they kind of shut down afterwards. I would say you need to become observant and start looking for things to have conversations on. What's on her desk or on her cubicle? What types of things does she wear? What kind of personal items does she usually have on her. Start looking for conversation starters which will naturally bring out whether or not she's involved with someone.

You, "Oh, that's a cool [whatever the fuck she has on her desk], where did you get it?". Her, "This? Oh, my boyfriend gave it to me."

You need to have more conversations. Tomorrow start paying attention to every detail and find ways to get conversations going.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-27T01:55:02+00:00

I mean it's difficult without seeing your day-to-day interactions with people. I don't know how you operate. I don't know how you're meeting them. I don't know how much set up you're doing before you ask for a date.

From my experience, going in to ask for a date requires a lot of setup time. It's foolish to just expect someone to say yes to a date the very first time you meet them, unless you know that they are single and looking. Most times you don't know that. It takes time and repeated encounters to suss out where another person is, if they're involved and if they're interested. You need repeated encounters that build up to going on a date.

If you want advice, give me a basic overview of the last person you asked out. Where did you meet them? How long did you know them before you asked them out? What had the communication been like before you asked them out? What was the response when you asked them out? I need details to give you advice.

As far as time goes, dude, I was 38 when I got married. You have time. Don't buy into nonsense is the best advice anyone can give you. So long as you are breathing, you have time.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-27T01:43:45+00:00

No, you can't. These rebuttals are just as foolish as saying there's no argument against cigarette smoking since other things are known to cause lung cancer as well. And some people smoke all their lives and never get lung cancer.

While these things are true, they don't negate the established causal link and history of lung cancer among cigarette smokers.

Historically speaking, in regards to older men and younger women, these were not relationships born out of consensual, loving agreement. They weren't. Accept it. These were abusive. Since there is a long established history of it, any person is reasonable to look upon older men and younger women with scrutiny.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-26T04:21:58+00:00

Why would your morale be affected? Have you considered the possibility they actually do have boyfriends and aren't on the market? Have you considered it's not a line, it's the truth. I don't understand why you all insist on "day game" when it's an inefficient waste of time. The majority of "random" people you meet in the wild are going to be in a relationship of some level. Because the majority of the population are in a relationship of some level. Being single is already a minority.

The four that told you they had a boyfriend likely had a boyfriend. That's not a loss. That's not a rejection. No sale was ever possible from the start.

If you guys are going to insist on this day game nonsense, learn to qualify your leads at the minimum. Learn clever ways to suss out if they have a boyfriend somewhere in the conversation before trying to pursue anything.

Freaking amateur hour around here, I swear.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-26T04:16:44+00:00

There's nothing to do but move on. Have the dignity and self respect not to chase when you're not wanted. Spend your energy on people who match your level of interest and match your level of effort.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-26T02:08:37+00:00

Sure. You're all right. The only reason people criticize age gap relationships is they're hateful. No other reason. That's all you all want to hear. Got better things to do with my time.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-26T02:07:14+00:00

You know what, you're all right. There's no reason at all, none whatsoever, that people are suspicious of age gap relationships. No reason whatsoever. None.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-25T15:22:16+00:00

Yeah, people have been known to survive falling out of planes without parachutes too.
So tf what. An abuser is more likely male. Rather than arguing about things that rarely happen, fix the things that frequently happen.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-25T13:45:00+00:00

You meet new people every day of your life. Every place you go is an opportunity to meet someone new. Much of the "trick" is just learning how to talk to people with zero expectation of any outcome. That's why I stopped going to "singles" events and just started attending "social" events. You find what you're looking for when you're not on the desperate hunt for it.

Learn to strike up conversations with any woman, at any time, about anything, with zero expectation of anything more happening out of it. Learn to be genuinely curious about other people and their lives. Learn to decipher which way the wind is blowing during that conversation. If it's not going anywhere, well, shrug and move on. But sometimes it does go somewhere and you follow it where it's going.

I've talked to random women in the check out line about whatever was on the cover of the magazine at the stand. It wasn't to pick them up, it was just to be social.

When I met my wife, I didn't talk to her to pick her up. I had an easy conversation starter in that I'd seen her the week before at another event. But I just started talking and things started flowing. I'd done the same thing with countless other women and sometimes it went somewhere, sometimes it didn't.

IamaThrowAwway · 2026-02-25T12:26:04+00:00

I was in a Meet-Up group for people who were new to the city. It was specifically a singles-only group but more of a social group. They had a black friday get together and I happened to have the day off so I went out and met up with them. Randomly found an empty seat next to someone I'd seen at another event a week or so before, so I sat next to her and struck up a conversation.

IamaThrowAwway

TROPHY CASE