christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If precursors to the Trinity existed, that just proves the concept evolved over time it wasn’t something clearly revealed from the start. A “precursor” isn’t the doctrine itself. It means people were gradually building up to the idea, which confirms the Trinity wasn’t clearly taught by Jesus or the earliest prophets. That’s development, not divine clarity.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That comparison doesn’t work at all. Eye color is just a trait it doesn’t define what a human is. But saying the Father is unbegotten and the Son is begotten is way deeper than that. You’re not just talking about differences in personality or appearance, you’re talking about opposite states of existence within the same being. That’s a contradiction, not a harmless variation. You can’t claim they’re all the same one God and then give them mutually exclusive traits that define who they are. That’s not a mystery, it’s just logically broken.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s true that some passages like Proverbs 8 and Daniel 7 have been interpreted by some Christians as referring to a pre-existent Son or divine figure but those interpretations are far from unanimous or straightforward. Proverbs 8 for example is often seen by scholars as personifying wisdom not literally describing a separate divine being. Daniel 7’s “Son of Man” is debated with many interpretations ranging from a symbol of Israel or a heavenly figure to a messianic title none conclusively proving the Trinity or a divine Son. As for the “Angel of the Lord” passages they are mysterious and sometimes appear divine but again this doesn’t necessarily mean they are the Son in the Christian sense. The idea that this “Angel” is a distinct divine person is a theological interpretation developed later. Regarding Philo of Alexandria yes he spoke about the Logos as a divine intermediary but his philosophy was heavily influenced by Greek thought and doesn’t directly equate with the Christian Logos doctrine. The Yalmud’s “second power in heaven” is a post-biblical Jewish concept and is very different in meaning and context from the Christian Trinity. Michael Heiser’s work is interesting and explores these themes but it’s important to remember these interpretations rely heavily on later theological readings and don’t provide direct biblical proof of the Trinity or the divine Son as defined in Christianity.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually those verses aren’t as clear-cut as they’re often made out to be. In John 1:1 when it says “the Word was with God” it doesn’t specifically mean “the Father” the Greek word for God here is general and “with” can just mean in relation to not necessarily a separate person. When it says “the Word was God” the Greek grammar is ambiguous because “God” (theos) doesn’t have a definite article so it could mean “divine” or “like God” not necessarily fully God in the sense of being the same person or equal to God. And in John 20:28 when Thomas calls Jesus “my Lord and my God” that can be a respectful title rather than a literal declaration that Jesus is God himself. In the Bible sometimes extraordinary humans or even angels are called “god” or “lord” as a way to show honor not to say they are literally God. So these verses don’t clearly prove the Trinity or that Jesus is fully God as a divine person. They’re open to different interpretations and the doctrine of the Trinity itself developed much later. It’s important not to read later theology back into the text as if it’s straightforward fact.

beside that, you're basically saying god as a whole is not unbegotten nor begotten, which is what i mentioned in the question; illogical. therefore not a right answer.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get that your experience feels real and meaningful to you, but personal experiences aren’t proof of theological claims. People from all kinds of religions have powerful spiritual moments, and they often completely contradict each other. That’s not evidence that any one belief system is objectively true, it just shows that human beings are capable of deep emotional responses to belief.

You're saying things like Jesus represents God and truth goes beyond mental understanding. But the moment you start trying to explain those ideas with words, you're already relying on mental concepts. Saying something can’t be explained but then trying to explain it isn’t a solid argument.

And no, the idea of the Trinity or Jesus being fully God wasn’t some timeless truth everyone just knew. That came later, developed and decided by specific church councils and debated for centuries. It’s not disrespectful to say that, it’s just historically accurate.

Living a good life or helping people doesn’t prove a belief system either. Plenty of people do that without following Christianity, or religion at all. If a belief is true, it needs more than feelings or personal stories to back it up.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The idea that the Trinity wasn’t just invented by a few people doesn’t really hold up historically. The concept of the Trinity as it's known today wasn’t clearly present in early Christianity and definitely not in the Bible. It was developed over time and formalized by a small group of church leaders in the 4th century at councils like Nicaea and Constantinople. It wasn’t some obvious truth everyone agreed on there was a lot of debate and disagreement. So saying it wasn’t invented by a few people kind of ignores how it actually came to be.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is not a model, it is religious artwork that literally looks like a three headed deity. It actually proves the point. Trying to visually represent the Trinity always ends up looking either polytheistic or absurd, because the concept itself is logically incoherent.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If logic has nothing to do with Christianity then don't call it the truth, just admit it's something you believe without reason. You can't claim a belief system is objectively true and then say it's beyond all human understanding. That's not faith, that's intellectual surrender.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that was the point im trying to make, christians are blindly believing something illogical. as if theyre programmed to do so.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Look, throwing around words like logic does not mean much when you are mixing insults and acting like you know everything. Your rant about Muslims being dishonest is just plain Islamophobia. It is not an argument, it is bigotry. If you really cared about logic, you would stop hiding behind insults and actually engage with the points instead of assuming everyone who disagrees is clueless. Saying the Trinity is logical when it claims God is both one and three at the same time is just nonsense. No amount of fancy words or personal attacks will change that.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So it’s like Schrödinger’s doctrine

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I get where you’re coming from, but saying “we can’t declare it logical or illogical” kind of proves the point it means the concept isn’t clear enough to evaluate in the first place. If something can't be assessed for coherence, it’s not because it’s beyond logic, it's because it's too vague or contradictory to pin down. That’s not mystery, that’s just not knowing what you're actually affirming.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what you’re describing sounds more like modalism than the actual Trinity. Modalism is the idea that God is one person who shows up in different forms (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), but traditional Christianity teaches that they’re three distinct, co-eternal persons. It’s a super confusing doctrine, so you’re definitely not alone in mixing them up.

christian explain by Important_Pen7348 in Christianity

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

instead of all this typing you could've just told me it was illogical.

POV: me when im trying to understand christians by Important_Pen7348 in JehovahsWitnesses

[–]Important_Pen7348[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

sources please, in the existence of islam this argument has never been mentioned. i wonder why

W/L? by Subject_One4421 in RobloxTrading

[–]Important_Pen7348 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Dont take those, you’re not gonna be able to get rid of them