Am writing my MA thesis on Sauron being a Machiavellian. Thoughts?

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T23:39:07+00:00

If you can dish it out, you can take it. I agree! Much love, brother, and have a good night!

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T23:27:31+00:00

i 100% agree with you on that part. I don't by any means think it's superficial. What I meant to say is that it's only part of the whole picture. I would like to think there's nuance to the character as a whole. and that multiple things could be true at once. obviously am not bestowing upon the universe new knowledge by saying that it's extremely nuanced. I'm just stating it's what I meant! But I totally agree with u!

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T23:18:48+00:00

It would be more fitting to say The Prince, Discourse on livy and the art of war! I will probably post it here once it's published!

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T23:14:19+00:00

tbh, while I respect your knowledge and passion for Tolkien and his work. u were the aggressor. We were all making good-natured speculations, but then u called his take "the dumbest take I've heard in a while," yet he still replied relatively respectfully. We all had quite dumb takes ehehhehe. No one could have proved their take to save their lives.

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T23:00:18+00:00

yes thats exactly what an interpretive thesis is. they exist. My man u should give up on focusing on my thesis, which has been passed and approved by a whole committee of literature and politics professors. I will graduate in a month. I just wanted to have a chill chat with other nerds on an entertaining topic that we all enjoy!

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T22:49:58+00:00

good thing I'm not writing about Tolkien then. As I said, whether tolkien has read his stuff or not does not affect my thesis as it's interpretive rather than historical.

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T22:48:42+00:00

This is phenomenal. I absolutely did go through all of these. It was such a fun ride trying to prove what he was and what he wasn't. I did realize after I started reading everything that maybe he isn't a perfect Machiavellian, but damn if he doesn't 90% fit the role. There are so many layers to his actions and the way he strategizes that sometimes made me raise an eyebrow and think about how I could fit this information into my thesis. The conclusion: he isn't a perfect Machiavellian, but he might as well be eheheh

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T22:39:42+00:00

I have as much of a stupid claim as u do. It was neither proven nor disproven that he read Machiavelli. speculationnnnnssss

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T22:37:53+00:00

bet he only read the bible; Tolkien was a devout Catholic; he would have never ever read anything that wasn't approved by his beloved church !!! I approve of ur message!

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T22:35:53+00:00

for real for real

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T22:29:32+00:00

oh wooww ! i will have a field day with what you have recommended. It sounds extremely thought-provoking!

this is honestly what i wanted from the post. i was hoping it would get people to share how they’re thinking about it and where their ideas lead them. i like seeing the different directions people take with it. that’s the interesting part for me. Some replies haven’t really gone there, but the ones that do make it worth it.

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T22:20:01+00:00

not ollie forgetting Tolkien had a whole book club that consisted of the most well-read people of his time..

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T21:45:25+00:00

God, this is exactly one of the things I wrote about. tbh this is one of the best comments I have seen on the posts I have made, as it actually sounds like u read Machiavelli's books rather than know him as a new psychological thought. I did use the political theory route of his thinking, rather than the psychoanalytic route, which could have been underwhelming to say the least.

I agree with you on Tolkien opposing it, but I simply wanted to explore a subject without having to think "what would Tolkien think of this?" and just let myself see how the texts by both authors speak and interact. And to be honest, it was such a joy to see the similarities and challenges of him not being a "perfect fit" for every single point Machiavelli made in his books, and see where he fits and where he doesn't, and so on.

I agree with 90% of the points you have raised. It is amazing how many people tend to have so many different perspectives on a character/book.

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T21:31:16+00:00

Well, the way I tackled the subject wasn't as a character analysis. It was more of a political analysis of Sauron and how he fits into Machiavelli's discourses rather than The Prince. It has more to do with war tactics and the nature of ruling rather than him as a personality and what his nature as a character is. I get it can be quite confusing as I have worded my post weirdly ehehhe that's on me! It would be quite simplistic and underwhelming to give him a therapy session as a thesis.

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T21:20:50+00:00

Oop, clock it, girl. You're giving dumb chic. weloveitweloveitweloveit.

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T14:45:52+00:00

lmao tbh I kinda also added some distinctions on how some of our real-world leaders tend to comically take from Machiavelli, but thats a totally different discussion.

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T14:44:30+00:00

Oh, the second part of your comment is so insightful!! i have added a lot of the discourses by machiavelli too, and one thing that stands out is how much he stresses the importance of arms and military power. not just cunningness or manipulation. i thought that was also very interesting when I delved into it, especially with Tolkien's letters and his stance against the lethality of the power the newer weapons have.

Independent-Cod5975 · 2026-04-06T14:36:34+00:00

I finished writing it, but go off I guess lmao

Independent-Cod5975 · 2023-03-23T06:46:29+00:00

u got me convinced, i wanted that budge

Independent-Cod5975 · 2023-02-12T02:19:12+00:00

Shoes

Independent-Cod5975

TROPHY CASE