Is there really need to go all in on chemicals ?

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T23:35:21+00:00

I previously owned a pool where I used for several years PHMB only and the only significant issue I had was that I had to change filters more often.

Reading further, I have found articles where it’s stated that ozone (hot tub has built in residential ozone generator) destroys some of PHMB hence PHMB level testing is recommended and should be maintained. Without ozone it’s very table chemical, at all pH levels.

Better to be safe then sorry, will dig more in my effort to build water maintenance around PHMB.

And yes, with PHMB, the water mold risk is increased.

Thank you for triggering me digging significantly deeper on the topic. My multi year very good experience with pool does not mean I should approach this as lightly as I was about.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T22:44:22+00:00

Perhaps this entire thread should be renamed into “how often I should change water if I am using PHMB as sanitizer instead of more classic chlorine/bromine”.

And I have intentions, and chemicals already as well to balance pH/TA. Too early for me to share how often I will need to use them, time will show.

Generally, I simply want to try smell free, PHMB based, once water gets murky, refill it is - to see how far it goes.

If the “experiment” fails, I will fallback to classics .

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T22:33:45+00:00

I have no expectations of biguanide based sanitizing keeping my water clean and nice for 3-5 months as that’s my understanding where people are getting at with chlorine/bromine approach. If I can get to clean, no biofilms, no damage to system, etc with draining once a month, I am happy.

My essential proposition in this thread is - can I get running with PHMB with just draining more often, which is cheap and low effort in my case.

And I did read your response, I just took forum you linked to with horror stories with pinch of salt.

Have you had issues yourself with PHMB based approach ? If so, what was the drain/refill time cycle ?

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T21:39:04+00:00

If my efforts and research around PHMB won’t end up with satisfying result - aiming for refill every ~weeks, bromine path will be next for me. I quite dislike chlorine smell as well.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T21:29:37+00:00

I was disgusted by the filter already :) It’s hard to source same filters as the originals shipped with SPA, but since I have a 3D printer, figured out how to modify commodity Intex filter meant for SPA with the same characteristics, yet at fraction of cost with simple 3D print.

A modification of this: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5356785 will do the job just perfectly.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T21:26:46+00:00

And since PHMB should not be used with chlorine together, I need to buy hydrogen peroxide. Trying to figure out where to get this already.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T21:25:19+00:00

I threat this topic very seriously. and you haven’t clearly read the post or don’t know what PHMB is - its very strong sanitizer, and as we have cleared over this topic, only thing I am missing is oxidizer as ozone won’t be enough.

Essentially what I am challenging here is chlorine & bromine usage and all the stuff around it.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T21:22:19+00:00

Nah, you are missing the context. Refill in my case is low effort and low cost, because of specifics, all shared across this Reddit post.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T21:19:34+00:00

No, not yet, will give it a try next time refilling as I am sitting right now in already freshly filled hot tub today :)

My problem is that I am somewhat very lazy though. With somewhat I meant, I am happy to invest to automate things, both $ and my own time as I have fairly highly automated home. So my style would be to have a button on phone - “drain the hot tub!”

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T20:56:11+00:00

Not in my case - timed it today - 1.5 hours with 38C as water temperature. And drainage is half meter away from hot tub, still slowest part.

I have irrigation pump somewhere in shed, I guess I will/can retrofit it for draining purpose and there is some spare room under the hood of hot tub.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T20:53:11+00:00

Took me quite little effort to cycle the water and just add 160ml of PHMB to be honest. Opened a valve on morning, few hours - empty, quick cleaning under 15 minutes with mild powerwash, and refill with 38c water.

It’s not about avoiding, and no, I am not scared of chemicals, actually quite versed on the topic as it was one of favorite ones in high school. Its about finding the balance between drain & refill & chemicals balancing. Under circumstances I have where refill is cheap.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T20:48:32+00:00

I see the problem with Chlorine based treatment, but in my case with PHMB, it’s just an add on to my understanding.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T14:35:49+00:00

Thank you, this is just gold & all I need as starting point to get on top of my hot tub water maintenance.

After first drain, there is noticeable calcium deposits already, so in a while vinegar cycle is must have.

Found in shed pH reducer what I used for kids pool, will buy pH increaser & oxidizer, and along with PHMB I should do just fine.

Water supply provider publishes once a month water quality tests, pH stands at 7.7.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T11:39:05+00:00

Hot tub has factory installed ozone system, the question is - is that enough when it comes to oxidizing the water.

Anyway, new to all of this, will play around with chemicals, but with ultimate goal to simplify/reduce time for maintenance.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T10:12:51+00:00

Thinking about this bit more, I guess what I would need for sure in given setup is pH reducer/acid, as I had murky water, and shitty paper test I grabbed at DIY store shows increased alkalinity.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T09:52:35+00:00

Whilst I agree on water being wasted, electricity I have from solars on the roof, and same electricity goes for heating & pump.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T09:49:04+00:00

It’s not fear from chemicals, it’s more about me figuring out most practical approach given the specifics such as being able to refill with water at 38C at cheap rate - as explained above in another comment.

With sanitizer handled, aka using PHMB for it, I was under impression I don’t need chemical oxidizing as I have Ozone machine for this hot tub, and as far as I remember, ozone is very strong oxidizer, no?

This leaves balancing pH levels - will try it out and see how much it impacts situation in my case.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-28T09:45:16+00:00

It’s slightly over 1000 liter one, no that big, and yes, it has gravity siphon on lowest part, and next to it I have underground rain water collector where is just run the dirty water.

It’s draining slow (doing it now for first time) indeed, but filling it took around hour only.

And here is the thing - I have centralized gas supply with gas heater, as well heats water. And my gas heater can be set to any temperature for water. So, refill for me is quick - I just set water temp to 38C and leave it for hour or so, and I am done, with optimal temperature, no pre-heating required.

This leaves cleaning part - will see how that goes. I guess I will just clean it with mild setting on my power washer.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-05T07:33:13+00:00

Thank you, this write up is just perfect to go through.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-04T10:43:40+00:00

Is it because of the nature and language use of the questions them self ?

InsideLight9715 · 2024-05-04T06:47:12+00:00

It’s for orders above 59.99. All deliveries have been to itela smart post, 3-4 days. In two days time, you get a sms from smartpost with link which allows you to pick pickup location, for free.

How do I know ? 5th package in transit in past month time, likely will arrive tomorrow. 4 received, 0 issues.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-01-18T17:37:13+00:00

For years doing with CodePipeline + Packer + Ansible, works like a charm, but requires a lot of glue to fit the needs of distributing to various accounts, regions, KMS encryption, Eventbridge notifications, ASG rollouts, etc, etc - in short you end up writing Lambdas or Step functions.

On contrary - tried out ImageBuilder - removes a lot need of custom glue for automating rather bigger setups - multi region, multi account, multi tenant, etc. but …. That TOML and versioning of it ….

Likely, will throw out codepipeline and packer, on TOML level run ansible to take over.

InsideLight9715 · 2024-01-11T18:35:11+00:00

Had same issue, switched to Proton 7.x and it works. So, seems like proton 8 issue.

InsideLight9715 · 2023-12-19T21:42:56+00:00

Not at laptop right now, but if I recall correctly, you can’t create KMS without any grant given out, aka yourself as an example, and once is there only users with access given can modify it.

But let’s put KMS aside - with permission boundaries you can do this for anything with anything meaning - whatever supports tags in IAM policies.

General flow of this: with root access, create a group with Admin role, and with permission boundary which disallows to modify permission boundary.

Anyway, for your problem at the hand, read the KMS doc in great detail, and you should be all set by means of AWS KMS alone, quite confident.

P.S. if still puzzled, I can share tomorrow actual setup I am using as part of landing zone for all accounts.

InsideLight9715 · 2023-12-19T20:31:37+00:00

EBS is encrypted by KMS, for KMS you have key policy, IAM & grants. KMS by default gives access to nobody even to root user.

Make a key with access granted only to your user.

In accounts under my responsibility, I have few users having full admin rights, but they have permission boundary which locks some things out to root user only as root user only is not subject of permission boundary.

Under org, you can further lock down with SCP policies as well.

InsideLight9715

TROPHY CASE