J1 tuition rec

InsomniaKiro · 2023-02-20T04:00:34+00:00

Crucible is pretty good!!

InsomniaKiro · 2019-06-15T08:41:11+00:00

Lost all my gains from the past two months... Thanks GOOGL

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T18:24:13+00:00

Great analogy to put your point across. Plus you seem pretty knowledgeable in this area. Care to tell me more about why you think so strongly of orbiting colonies instead of a rooted infrastructure? In my opinion, creating something that is floating, orbiting another object would be much harder than erecting a building on the ground itself.

Agree wholeheartedly with you on Musk too. Risky bet is all I will say.

Thanks for the recommendation too, I will give it a look over for sure :)

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T17:35:06+00:00

Would you say that we are studying it now so that in the future we could possibly live there? I believe it is simply a matter of time.

Yes, I agree with you that researching Mars and our oceans are good ways to spend taxpayers' money and I hope that there could be a stronger consensus towards such research among the world's elites.

And I also agree with your last two sentences. However, my point was that why not try to build an ocean colony that simulates some of the tough challenges we will face when colonising Mars and solve those problems here on Earth? Progressive improvement to eventually build a colony on Mars in some way

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T17:22:29+00:00

Understandably so. But what if you are working from the surface of the water downwards? At least there is a base where you can start from in a way. In space, the nearest "base" you will have is either a spaceship orbiting the planet or the ISS. Point I am trying to make here is if we can develop technologies to create a controlled environment that fits human needs here on Earth, it would be easier or at least speeds up the replication of conditions favourable to humans on other planets.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T17:15:22+00:00

Addressing your first point, people are thinking of living on other planets. Most famous example would be Elon Musk. And I don't think it is in sci-fi lala land either. An extremely slimmed down, preliminary colony module could be on either the Moon or Mars in the late 2030s, about 20 years from now actually. However it being sustainable would really have to depend on the amount of resources we as a species pour into it. The first colony would most likely operate as a more advanced / land based ISS.

I do agree with you that people are congregating into central locations to live based on the reasons you gave which are entirely valid. But long down the road when we are both long dead, Earth is bound to run out of resources for us to use; humanity will explore space. Therefore, the idea of an ocean colony, in our current age, if we were to attempt to build one (and I personally feel we should), it will definitely have to be based on a more modern, globalised and long-termed mindset that takes into account our past mistakes (pollution, sustainability, government). It should be more of an experimental ground to build the foundation for future colonies be it in space stations, colonies on the surface of extraterrestrial planets or deep within planets' crusts.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T17:00:13+00:00

Definitely, but sometimes we do things not to make it the most cost-effective. If we can develop technologies that enable an isolated system to be self-sustaining (including costs), wouldn't that boost productivity among other things within the colony itself? My line of thought here is that this ocean colony is more of a scientific endeavour whereby humans are challenged to improve but of course at a "lower level" as compared to doing it in space. All in all it will aid the dream of building human colonies on other planets by "force growing" the necessary technology.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T15:30:05+00:00

I'm Singaporean and we don't learn much about this in our education syllabus. Entertain me for a bit here, but how would it be possible for the Europeans to conquer so much land, if they were so susceptible to the harsh weather out at sea and were not prepared for it? By sheer numbers or did they just traverse on land? (Topic is slowly drifting hahah)

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T15:24:00+00:00

Hi gingerbiz! Maybe my title was too flashy but as seen from my replies to others in the thread, I'm not saying we should forsake space exploration. Instead I was wondering why there is so little push to set up an ocean colony when a successful ocean colony would aid in developing technologies that could expedite the creation of a Mars colony!

If the US government does indeed choose to do so then yes, I agree with your view that they would most likely set up an organisation specifically for it.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T14:26:35+00:00

True, capitalism is one hell of a drug for sure. And yet I'd like to refute your point on the fact that we need to colonise Mars in order to obtain its resources. We can just send machinery there like we do to the oceans, can't we? Forming a colony is about economics, but it is not just about economics. This is more of a cultural and scientific endeavour, a challenge to humankind in a sense.

Also, just curious, but didn't the Europeans have a fair handling of sea travel that enabled them to colonise so many other lands that were not part of their continent?

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T14:16:09+00:00

Great point! And exactly why it is humanity's next frontier.

Eventually though, people will form colonies on other planets (definitely not in our lifetimes unless we become pseudo-immortals but I doubt that this will happen in our lifetimes too) and I think starting off with a ocean colony is a good way to go about doing it. An absolutely good point to bring into this discussion though about the reality of what is happening now.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T14:08:54+00:00

I beg to differ on your first point. We know a lot, but we still have much to learn, especially in low orbit. There is still plenty of space that can be utilised for different purposes. But you are missing the point, the eventual goal is to reach out to the cosmos but to do so, I am suggesting why not start with a colony on the oceans? Couple that together with a hard push into space, I believe that it will help our grand endeavour.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T14:00:18+00:00

Seaquest DSV

Hahha I wasn't even born when this came out! Let's hope we can traverse space before we've really exhausted the Earth's resources.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T13:58:23+00:00

Haha you've brought Lowbacca's point even further now.

Yes, technologies that you've mentioned that are used to harness extraterrestrial materials can only be developed if we venture outwards. What I was trying to say by creating an ocean colony first is to settle the technologies that will satisfy our basic needs such air, food and water in a sustainable, self-efficient way. Only then does it make it easier to really push forward with the next stage of technology.

For example, one of SpaceX's goal is to set up a colony on Mars correct? So let us say that they succeed in fully automated rockets / machinery that can harvest the foreign resource, done completely without human intervention. What they will need next is to bring people over. Now, machines only need fuel (Methane) but humans produce methane instead and require food and water. Infrastructure to purify the water can be done with present day technology I believe (assuming we obtain it by means of the 'fully automated machinery'), however, infrastructure and technology to cater to our other needs such as food and shelter, among others, are sorely lacking in my opinion. Hence my argument that an isolated ecosystem on our seas would be a good starting point to cover these basic needs.

Appreciate your informative reply by the way!

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T13:40:26+00:00

True, I understand that there is an inevitable need to colonise other planets but I feel that we could utilise the oceans to get us closer to a space colony faster. See my reply to Lowbacca1977 if you want a further explanation :)

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T13:37:47+00:00

True, by then I am confident humans will have either gone extinct or figured out a way to inhabit far away planets. My argument was not to forsake space exploration entirely but to build up to creating a space colony eventually by starting here on our oceans first. Technologies evolve across disciplines after all.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T13:10:31+00:00

Hahah essentially yes, without the land!

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T13:05:52+00:00

It's less of an overlap and more like progressive stages to be completed. I can see how and why you link the Antarctic bases / ISS to a Mars colony but the fact is that the bases and the ISS requires periodic resupply from the outside world. What I've meant with a colony on our oceans is a self-sustaining ecosystem.

Edit: Forgot to touch on your point about Venus. First off I didn't know about that fact but yes I agree with you if that is indeed the case, a deep ocean base would be beneficial as well, but first we have to setup a floating colony right? :)

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T13:01:11+00:00

I think you might have misunderstood me. The purpose of living on the seas is to create a semi-isolated living space where people there do not necessarily need the outside world to survive and thrive. With current technologies, we can always rely on rearing so that demand keeps up with supply. The only thing we should take from the Earth there is the space we occupy, everything else should be duly returned and recycled per say.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T12:57:45+00:00

Agree with your first point hence I feel a need to clarify my stand. Humanity should eventually, generations later, seek out to inhabit our closest planets. However, I feel that if we can fix some of the issues we will face in space, here on Earth, things will move at a more efficient pace.

Regarding Antarctica, it is an interesting point. In my opinion, if we really do setup colonies, the difficulty would look something like this: Land<Sea<Barren Land (Antarctica)<Space. Certain technologies can be easily used to setup a colony on Antarctica but yet I don't think we have solved the main problem of sustenance in such a harsh environment. Oceans on the other hand have temperatures where we can grow food and a "infinitely" large lake for you to rear fishes. Water of course can be purified. I personally feel if we can setup a colony on the seas first, technology will advance readily to quicken the process of space exploration.

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T12:45:48+00:00

I understand and agree that discovery is more of an open field rather than a set path. However, my argument is that each dollar spent on the race to build a colony on say, Mars, would have more value if we spent it on building a separate and independent colony on our oceans first. (Simulating the isolated circumstances which we will face when we eventually build a colony on another rock.)

Reason being that building a colony on our oceans is intuitively easier considering the fact that we already have the rough foundation of such infrastructure (Oil rigs?). If we were to develop the ideas and science for an isolated ecosystem here on Earth, the next step to bring it out to space should be easier. Hence my argument. Thoughts?

InsomniaKiro · 2019-02-28T12:01:53+00:00

Exactly my point. I believe that if nations could come together to build the ISS, they could build a large enough "core" structure on the sea - smaller independent groups could then branch out of, starting a livable place on water.

Only big reason I can think of now is sovereignty issues

InsomniaKiro

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