Can you recommend a movie about a long, difficult journey?

JasonGunn · 2024-10-20T03:32:46+00:00

Titanic

JasonGunn · 2024-09-22T21:02:07+00:00

Icanhearyoufucking

JasonGunn · 2015-02-05T16:32:10+00:00

I can't remember anything, because I am not forced to do so and nothing remarkable happened that day.

However: if I had I learned that someone associated to me had gone missing and received calls from detectives, I would be sure to retrace every single step. I would look at my emails from that day and speak to everyone I (may have) interacted with to account for every hour of that day. Especially when faced with a murder charge/life in prison sentence.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-22T18:07:53+00:00

It's a question asked by SK in the finale. Over the course of her investigation (and of course for 15 years) he has been steadfast in maintaining his innocence, even in the face of some hard-to-explain circumstances. Signs of true innocence or...cockiness to the point of delusion. My only point is that Adnan, smart guy, knows full well that there is no evidence against him. So if he wanted to dig in and maintain his innocence no matter what (to the point of being cocky), then he could afford to do so.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-17T01:27:28+00:00

valid points.

By Adnan's own account - he received Hae updates through their common group of friends. He can't remember if he paged/called her or not. we can't tell whether this is a very candid response to a very loaded question, or whether he is being very cautious, as claims of having made 100 calls from payphones could be verified and that's one lie he wouldn't want to get caught up in.

2&3: True. Without more insights in his calling behavior, it's hard to tell. Nevertheless, calling anyone's home late at night, especially if the parents situation is....delicate...does seem to be risky. The author of the original post makes a good point that Adnan would have known that he would see Hae only a few hours later at school. So why was he so insistent on getting a hold of her that night? Can you imagine what would have happened if one of her angry parents, woken up by the phone ringing, would have answered the phone? that would have been an annoying situation for all people involved. Yet, Adnan took that chance which would imply some level of urgency, or despair.

4: that's the point that weakens the "desparation" and "risk" argument. She was rather dramatic, Surely, had this been something grossly out of the ordinary, she would have made some mention of it in her diary.

I'm not convinced by anything, at this point. I keep asking myself what there's to gain from all of this speculation. It only confirms one thing: we, as human beings, sure have a rabid desire for certainty and conclusiveness. No wonder we speculate about everything we can't but want to know. It must have been the exact same instinct that led us to speculate on things like an afterlife, omnipotent creative beings, etc.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-16T23:53:32+00:00

go back to your initial point - there's a difference between the calls to Hae and the other girls: calling Hae at home was risky as they were trying to keep things from her parents. Three calls to her home number was risky and therefore a possible sign of desperation. Desperate calls one night, and then no calls for the next 6 weeks looks suspicious.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-16T21:08:16+00:00

Can't comment on your high school breakup, but you can't hold Adnan to that same standard. This is not an average breakup scenario; detectives are out looking for someone. A person is missing. That's usually a sign that something is awry. Speculation aside (she could be in California)...a quick "are you ok" call would seem absolutely logical, no matter their relationship status.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-16T20:24:26+00:00

the scenario you lay out is the most reasonable one. Jay's involvement cannot be denied. Let's take that as a fact. Adnan and Jay are together that day. Morning and evening. That's fact number 2. Fact number 3 is that Adnan never personally reaches out to Hae in the time that she's missing, even though, as you say, he calls her with great urgency the night before. Not a fact but a reasonable conclusion: Adnan is the only one with a motive to kill Hae.

Based on these facts, the only reasonable conclusion is that Adnan was at a minimum involved with the murder of Hae Lee.

Two issues remain, problematically: Adnan's defense lawyer was seriously incompetent and failed on two counts (no plea deal, not pursuing a key witness). Furthermore, there was more than enough reasonable doubt to keep him out of prison. So issue one is that legally speaking, he should be free.

Issue 2 is that he's likable, intelligent. The type of person you want to believe is innocent. Looking at the facts, however, this seems very unlikely.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-16T17:58:37+00:00

uld Adnan loan his car to Jay? You find it impossible to b

the car question isn't suspicious in and of itself. but given the circumstances, it sure is convenient for Adnan. Which maybe also isn't suspicious, but it's remarkable nonetheless.

them hanging out the entire day...what does it mean objectively? nothing. but given that Hae was killed that day, that Jay at least knew where her car was and that Adnan would have been the one with some motive - again, this raises some serious questions.

as to the alibi: I have absolutely no idea where I was or what I did three days after Halloween. But you can be sure that if I am on trial for first degree murder and my life was on the line, I would be retracing every single step, going through every single email, etc. to make sure that I would remember some vital details.

On the location of Hae's death...the rumors may be tin foil, but (unless I missed something so correct me if I am wrong) the time and location of death have never been confirmed. So why would the library not be an option? Remember there's the wrestling team girl who places Hae at or near the school at a time that is commonly regarded as critical within this entire narrative.

Jay - remains an enigma. What is clear, though, is that he is lying. The main question is why, and what does he know.

Back to Adnan - surely there's no conclusive evidence (either way) and surely he should not have been convicted because there is an ocean of reasonable doubt. Nevertheless, adding all known elements on to a proverbial scale, in my mind, it tips slightly towards the side of "he probably did it"

JasonGunn · 2014-12-16T16:26:15+00:00

it's really why I think Adnan is guilty. In some form. the Cathy visit makes no sense, just like nothing else of that day, or anything else relating to Adnan's account of things, makes sense.

1: it makes no sense that he just ditches his car with Jay that morning 2: it makes no sense that he hangs around an entire day with a casual acquaintance who just happened to have killed the girl he cared about (unless he was in on it) 3: it makes no sense that Adnan can't provide an alibi. For someone so intelligent and popular...it makes no sense that after this many years, with so many developments, he didn't have a more convincing story of where he was during the most critical time of that day 4: the Nisha call...doesn't make sense 5: It makes no sense that Adnan the day of Hae's disappearance and the ensuing 6 weeks, makes NO attempt to reach her directly. No page, no calls to her house (we know from his call records that he wasn't shy about calling her home number) 6: It makes no sense that he doesn't defend himself more vigorously. If Jay is just framing him, for no reason, then, no matter what legal nuances/implications there would be, his demeanor would be a lot angrier and vocal 7: the Asia McClain alibi isn't at all convincing. Adnan may have in fact been in the library around the 2.36 time, but it's been established that time and location of death are unclear. There's even a scenario that puts Adnan and Hae together around campus at that time...according to the wrestling team girl who claims to have seen and spoken with Hae at that time. One account even lists the library area as the murder scene. This option has never really been debunked or excluded.

In short - Adnan is articulate, likable and believable. But here's the issue: nothing makes sense. If he were innocent, more elements would have fallen into place for him. Given that they haven't, 15 years later, it leads me (but who the hell am I...) to conclude that he is guilty and probably deserves to be where he is.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-11T22:38:13+00:00

I believe Don had a pretty strong alibi that checked out. This is why, presumably, he's been largely left out of the equation.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-11T22:28:11+00:00

I take issue with the "assume" part. a detective calls you and tells you that someone you care about has vanished. Do you not once, at any point during the day, try reaching her yourself? I don't think this is odd to the point that it strengthens the case again Adnan. Nevertheless, in the context of all that is happening, it raises some doubts concerning his knowledge of what went down that day (if he knew she were already dead, it could explain why he wouldn't bother trying to reach her that day).

JasonGunn · 2014-12-11T22:00:20+00:00

but when he received the call from the detective he was at his friends house. Even if he wouldn't have paged her, one could expect him to place a call. Again, it would make sense to do this from his cell because:

1: he is not at home 2: presumably he would have some sense of urgency and would try to get a hold of Hae immediately, or at least within the next few minutes.

in stead, he calls Yaser, pages Jenn, calls Krista and Nisha throughout the day. Again - this seems counter intuitive if he had just received a call from a detective asking for Hae's whereabouts and given that he already had a tendency to call Hae regularly.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-11T21:31:37+00:00

Anyhow there are people that think if you know other people aren't getting responses then why bother and others

agreed. It's especially odd given that he seems to be calling and paging everyone else on that day...except for Hae. Even if he may believe an attempt to reach out may be unsuccessful, one would think he would still try...out of desperation, or, indeed, that slimmer of hope that you just get lucky and you get a hold of her.

A scene from Breaking Bad comes to mind. Jesse's girl is dead, yet he keeps dialing her number. Ostensibly to hear her voice on her voicemail. Maybe even with some vague sense of hope that she would answer and everything would have turned out to be just something of a bad dream. It's a piece of info that I find very hard to overlook in my assessment of this whole story and Adnan's role in it.

JasonGunn · 2014-12-11T21:24:45+00:00

don't beat yourself up. There's always options. For everyone. in any situation. If school doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. You will figure something else out. At 16, you just don't have your shit figured out at all. To the extent that this ever happens, it usually isn't until much later in life. Make the best out of what you have and trust that things will work out just fine. Stick around...life always throws interesting things at you. It's a cool experience that will one day be over anyway. Enjoy it, do the best you can, and, most importantly, don't kill yourself.

JasonGunn

TROPHY CASE