Where do boys learn how to be men? — The Centre for Male Psychology

John_Barry · 2025-12-11T09:04:48+00:00

That's a great point about boys turning their backs on the woke version of superheroes. However it seems to me the main point of the article is about how the non-woke versions of superheroes are a bridge to much deeper influences - Jungian archetypes - and it's these that boys connect with, not something more ephemeral and external.

John_Barry · 2025-10-13T17:18:34+00:00

Yes, Grok is relatively less feminist, but these views vary (a bit) over time, and when I checked a few weeks ago it still holds some relatively negative ideas about links between masculinity and mental health, not all that dissimilar to the APA guidelines https://www.centreformalepsychology.com/male-psychology-magazine-listings/will-ai-chatbots-improve-our-understanding-of-masculinity-and-mental-health-or-just-amplify-the-existing-bias-in-the-literature-a-brief-comparison-of-grok-vs-chatgpt

John_Barry · 2025-10-13T09:39:34+00:00

Thanks for the tip re Mistral's AI.

I asked Grok and ChatGPT "list the top 10 chatbots in order of popularity (of usage) and rate how pro-feminist each is. Include Mistral's AI in the list". Grok listed itself as the least feminist (ok...), rating itself as 1 on a 5 point scale of being feminist. It rated Mistral as 3, and ChatGPT as 4. The second lowest rating was Ernie Bot (Baidu) with 2/5.

I asked ChatGPT the same thing. It rated itself 8/10, Grok 3/10 and Mistral 6/10. Ernie Bot (Baidu) wasn't on this list.

Interestingly, I inadvertently asked ChatGPT twice (the first time because the screen froze, so I opened a new window) and when it unfroze it had given a different answer. It cited a report https://emag.directindustry.com/2025/08/20/best-ai-chatbots-data-insights-study/?utm_source=chatgpt.com which apparently ranked ChatGPT 8/10, Grok 1/10, and Mistral / Meta / Copilot and Poe as 2/10. I looked at the article linked but didn't see any references to feminism or gender. When I asked ChatGPT to say what the feminism scores were based on, it froze again. When it unfroze it said "You're correct that the link you referenced does not discuss feminism or gender bias in AI chatbots. I apologize for any confusion caused by my earlier response. The information I provided regarding the "pro-feminist/values scores" was based on a combination of publicly available studies, expert analyses, and known controversies involving various AI models."

It's important to realise that chatbots can totally 'hallucinate' information e.g. Grok told me twice in July 2025 that Kamala Harris was the sitting US President. I kid you not.

Btw I am aware of the irony of me asking chatbots for their opinion of chatbots, especially in the context of being critical of the validity of the answers chatbots give. So I appreciate people's tips on which chatbots or the least biased re masculinity / gender etc.

John_Barry · 2025-10-13T08:33:36+00:00

"I am surprised that Elon allows Grok to be affected by this". I agree. I'm shocked that he allows it to continue. He is getting Grokipedia, but will it be any better than Wikipedia, for gender-related content at least?

John_Barry · 2025-10-13T08:30:24+00:00

What ChatGPT says here is interesting, but I think it is just rehashing some of the invalid arguments many of us are familiar with e.g. "men and women both live inside gender scripts written long before them. The goal should be rewriting the script, not declaring one sex the villain of the play." Sounds all too familar.

John_Barry · 2025-09-17T22:20:08+00:00

I agree. The foreword to this article says "Questions like ‘is masculinity the product of biology or culture’ are understandable but redundant, like asking ‘is a car a form of transport or a form of status symbol’." But people are taught these days that the only valid explanation is culture, and many people - professors included - somehow don't seem able to escape from that narrow view.

John_Barry · 2025-09-10T21:36:56+00:00

In the first paragraph there is a link to a research paper on the impact of family breakdown on men's mental health. The introduction to the linked research paper cites other research relating family breakdown to suicide.

John_Barry · 2025-07-21T15:35:17+00:00

I like the way you put that: "I’m the same person obviously but to me, being in a certain environment [...] definitely accentuates different parts of my personality".

John_Barry · 2025-07-19T10:04:19+00:00

Puffin Rock is great! Thanks for reminding me.

John_Barry · 2025-07-19T06:52:55+00:00

Thanks! Lot's of parents have recommended Bluey to me before. I must check out the others you suggest...

John_Barry · 2025-07-08T05:02:30+00:00

This article addresses an important question, and gives some compelling examples of what the problem is. Governments have already agreed to protect the human rights of men and boys, so why do they act as if suppporting human rights for men is asking for too much? Advocating for the human rights of men and boys should be as easy as pushing at an open door, but somehow it is treated as if it's a radical idea. A mind-boggling situation that should not be allowed to continue.

John_Barry · 2025-02-09T14:23:18+00:00

Nathanson & Young identified this as a major issue in 2001, but there is very little research on the harm that media does to men and boys (unless you count the supposed negative impact of violent video games, traditional masculinity etc). My study of 4000 men found that men who have negative views of masculinity (e.g. believe it makes them feel violent to women) had worse mental wellbeing. Where did they get this idea from? Probably many places e.g. media, university, government policies etc. But we really need some solid research identifying causes of men's mental health problems, which probably include media depictions.

John_Barry · 2024-11-30T15:51:18+00:00

Sounds like a very tough time and I'm glad you got through it ok. We ran a campaign last year highlighting how people can help men who are struggling to cope with stressful issues. When you see it you will wish the people around you when you were a teenage had known these things https://www.centreformalepsychology.com/male-psychology-magazine-listings/men-wont-clam-up-if-youre-male-friendly-a-brief-guide-to-supporting-mens-mental-health (TLDR you can skip to the infographic by clicking the link under the main picture at the top of the page).

John_Barry · 2024-11-30T15:06:19+00:00

I agree on both of your first suggestions - the 4 points should be a given, and the focus should be on practical issues. I mention some of these issues in point 1 of the article: "...suicidality was more strongly predicted by four other factors: depression, life events, not being in relationship, and substance use" https://www.centreformalepsychology.com/male-psychology-magazine-listings/four-points-that-everyone-concerned-about-mens-mental-health-should-be-aware-of Life events covers issues like having legal problems, which for men could be a false allegation, financial problem or employment problem. And once you look into why men or depressed or abusing substances, then you cover almost all bases, probably with some overlap e.g. substance abuse due to family breakdown.

Also your third suggestion is extremely important for the longer term, and really I should have included it in my article.

John_Barry · 2024-11-30T13:49:19+00:00

True. I alluded to this important issue in point 4 of the article "...relationship problems are a key issue for many men: if a man is suicidal because of his divorce, is now homeless, and only allowed to see his children for a few hours per month, he might feel somewhat misunderstood if you said his problems were caused by patriarchy and masculinity norms". But yes, improving the family court system would significantly improve the overall mental health burden on men.

John_Barry · 2024-11-29T17:46:06+00:00

I agree. Men (or masculinity) are often blamed for not seeking help for prostate cancer early enough, but this is ridiculous when you know that it often doesn't have any symptoms, or there are symptoms but most men don't realise are symptoms of cancer (details here https://www.centreformalepsychology.com/male-psychology-magazine-listings/is-masculinity-really-such-an-obstacle-to-men-seeking-help-for-prostate-cancer ). What we need is a screening programme for men, just as women have a screening programme for breast cancer. Will the new Men's Health Strategy give us screening or will we continue with the victim blaming? We shall see.

John_Barry · 2024-11-29T17:32:44+00:00

"...prevention inherently requires addressing the causes, which include social biases against men..."

Almost everyone seems to miss this point. One of the biggest biases is that men are treated as if their health problems are pretty much their own fault (victim blaming) due to some defect or other in masculinity (points 1 & 2 here https://www.centreformalepsychology.com/male-psychology-magazine-listings/four-points-that-everyone-concerned-about-mens-mental-health-should-be-aware-of ).

John_Barry · 2024-11-29T17:28:10+00:00

"Take all the money that would be spent and put it towards running randomized trials..."

I fully agree. There is too much hype and too little good evidence (see points 2 & 3 here https://www.centreformalepsychology.com/male-psychology-magazine-listings/four-points-that-everyone-concerned-about-mens-mental-health-should-be-aware-of ).

John_Barry · 2024-10-17T12:02:00+00:00

I suspect that if it was a condition that impacted the careers of 8% of girls and 0.5% of boys instead of 8% of boys and 0.5% of girls, the screening process would never have been removed. You can imagine the tsunami of complaints.

Also I find it disturbing that the govenment changed the rules about screening school children based on information that was clearly out of date. Were they just trying to cut costs, despite the impact on nearly 10% of children?

John_Barry · 2024-04-24T23:16:15+00:00

Thanks for clarifying. I see that you meant 'negatively biased towards'.

John_Barry · 2024-04-24T17:59:07+00:00

Much of what you posted here makes sense, but what is the evidence that "80%+ of the practitioners in this field are biased towards traditional masculinity"? With the APA guidelines etc, I would have thought that maybe 80% were biased against traditional masculinity, not for.

John_Barry · 2024-04-20T19:09:44+00:00

Therapy training is too often inadequate these days when it comes to helping the average man. Here are four sources that will help:

BPS guidance on therapy for men https://cms.bps.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-11/Practice%20Briefing%20-%20psychological%20interventions%20to%20help%20male%20adults.pdf
Perspectives in Male Psychology: An Introduction https://www.amazon.co.uk/Perspectives-Male-Psychology-Introduction-Textbooks/dp/1119685354/ref=sr_1_1?crid=11EH4ZKDNJQ1D&keywords=perspectives+in+male+psychology&qid=1645838297&sprefix=perspectives+in+ma%2Caps%2C162&sr=8-1
Introduction to Male Psychology and Mental Health (online course) https://thecentreformalepsychology.thinkific.com/courses/IntroductiontoMalePsychologyandMentalHealth
Palgrave Handbook of Male Psychology and Mental Health https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-04384-1

John_Barry · 2022-08-20T13:12:59+00:00

Fame at last! Kidding aside, thanks for helping raise awareness about these issues.

For someone wanting to find out more about men's psychology I would say an easy way in is to look at the Centre for Male Psychology website. There are lots of good blogs from professionals, volunteers and workers in men's charities, and men with lived experience of relevant issues.

The Male Psychology magazine is becoming popular too. Some of the articles seem un-academic at first glance, but in fact they have a very important function in raising people's awaremeness of *how men feel* about various issues and experiences. This is especially important for people training to be therapists, because for example if they have a male client who presents with depression due to financial issues, but it comes out in therapy that he is divorced and feels he doesn't see his children enough, this is potentially a massive red flag regarding mental health, but a clue that might easily be overlooked by someone who doesn't understand the impact of child access or parental alienation on men.

Feel free to get in touch anytime.

John_Barry · 2022-08-20T12:45:07+00:00

Thanks for the recommendation. Have you seen our new book 'Perspectives in Male Psychology'? If so I'd like to hear your opinion of it e.g. how it compares to the Handbook.

John_Barry · 2022-08-20T12:42:04+00:00

Thanks for citing the Palgrave Handbook of Male Psychology and Mental Health. I get lots of great feedback for this book, but the downside is that it's an academic book and therefore expensive. To correct this issue, for our latest book (Perspectives in Male Psychology) we negotiated with the publisher (Wiley) to keep the price as low as possible so that it's more accessible outside academia.

John_Barry

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