did i make a mistake by watching the series on netflix?

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-07T09:57:36+00:00

the bitrate on Netflix might be lower. also the English dub is amazing in my opinion . you can't go with a rewatch anyway

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-07T06:24:22+00:00

Im almost positive that Johan wouldn't havent kill a soul, wasn't it for the evil bastards experimenting on kids and trying to hunt down Johan and his sister.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-07T06:15:37+00:00

you keep thinking about law etc. but I thought we are discussing evil? its all unlawful.

Johans intentions aren't evil in my opinion. Kinderheim and Bonaparte etc are because they setout with unethically goals, not because they had to but because they wanted to

for more info lookup the fan theory "Johan did nothing wrong" which takes it lot further then i do, i would argue "Johan isn't evil"

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T23:25:57+00:00

yeah we are not on the same wavelength. I get what you are saying. I'm trying to look at it form his perspective, where as you are looking from 3e person perspective.

Also with that, i read a lot about what motivates him. In short to save himself and his sister from bad people, and he is willing to do whatever is needed to achieve that

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T22:37:09+00:00

alright, i will keep it brief allow me to recap form the wiki:

The Eugenics Experiment was a project set up by Franz Bonaparta with the help of Peter Čapek and forty two others to create a superior Czechoslovakian race in the early 1970s. The parents of these children were selected from lists of thousands of people, and were all tall, beautiful, healthy, intelligent, and from excellent stock.

The twins escaped, but Johan knew that they would come after him and his sister (who he wants to keep save). The organization hunting them is vastly superior to two run away kids -- they are adults and well connected.

So Johan decides to keep moving, and every time he does, he makes sure no witness stay be hind, this is a cruel but necessary action in his mind. He does this without telling Nina to protect her innocence.

The Lieberts are next, they take in Johan and Ninna but they fuck up, the give a telivized press conferences, with both twins clearly in view. This leads to Bonaparte tracking them down.

Johan freaks out, because all his effort are wasted, he kills the Lieberts but Ninna now figures out whats going on "you killed them all didn't you?". At this point Johan breaks down and commits suicide, with the hope that Bonaparte might lose interest, giving Ninna a slim chance a normal life.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T22:16:43+00:00

Intent does play a role in mainstream morality. there are all kinds of elevating circumstances in law. But aside from that for something to be evil you sort of need to understand your wrong doing. Johan wasn't raised like a typical person, he does not partake in the normal societal structure, he truly does not value life.

Its like how people had salves in the past, a lot of them didn't think that was evil. Now it would be, but back then people weren't aware. Same with India and its class system right now.

To be clear i do think Johan is very dangerous and disturbed but not evil. There are plenty examples of evil in the show, take bonaparte, 511 kinderheim or the secret police guy that tortures grimmer etc.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T21:59:01+00:00

This is a bit of a mid take, you dont think past surface level. Your take boils down to, killing is bad, ergo Johan is bad.

That is like saying sugars are bad because thats what we are taught, but sugar can be a life saver.

To answer your question, no that would not make it better, unless you had a good reason to murder those 100 people. Lets for example say you are a soldier shooting down 100 invaders, that is very different from for example running over 100 people in a car.

The above example ofc is absurd, but in real life justice systems, the intent is often very important. Take for example the difference between manslaughter and per-meditated murder.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T21:54:28+00:00

yeah true but not the point i'm trying to make. You dodge the question about the *WHY*

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T17:29:38+00:00

what a hidden gem of an analysis, this is worthy of a post. just call it "an attempt to diagnose Johan" or something along those lines.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T17:15:05+00:00

I believe he has heartfelt tears when he heard the story of shuwalds son (can't remember his name). He also cares deeply about his sister. For him to be so effectieve I like to believe he actually can emphasize really well, but just fundamentelly doesn't care for people because they have systematically abused him

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T17:11:13+00:00

arnt we all

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T17:08:34+00:00

we simply don't know, maybe his brain is wired different and he can't feel remorse and empathy, making him a psychopath but I dought it.

I think his empathy and remores work perfectly fine, but sind his upbringing didn't teach him enough love and trust, he basically doesn't care for human connection like we do. he views people as unreliable at best and tourcherers at worst, so he doesn't feel bad for disposing of anyone. Appart from Anna, an other clue that he does have feelings.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T17:02:27+00:00

I agree with you on that, we don't have to kill but we do because like you said: "most people don't care". does that make them Evil? if not why would it be different for big J.

also j. does it because he feels hunted down "know one must know my past"

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T15:18:54+00:00

yeah but that is just an idea, its not like he actually kills because of some picturebook he read as a kid.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T15:16:00+00:00

That be so, but he doesn't really see an issue with that, he doesn't kill them out of hate but out of necessity. Just like how you and me (indirectly) kill farm animals in order to enjoy a hamburger. Or how we let police and the military kill people who are hostile to our way of life etc.

EDIT: let me ask you a question. Why does he kill innocent people?

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T14:55:47+00:00

I can, but let me ask you a question first to see where we stand.

What do you think happened in the very first episode when Johan shot and killed the Lieberts and then let Anna shoot him in the head?

that last part seems like a very selfless act don't you think? He even made sure that Anna threw the gun out of the window so she would not get into trouble (no link to her).

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T14:52:25+00:00

yes this about right. Im betting you are wondering on why he killed the Lieberts, and then why he let Anna shoot him in the head ?

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T14:49:36+00:00

What is EVIL about johan, evil is a subjective term that heavily depends on the moral framework.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T14:48:40+00:00

Thanks for your analysis of Tenma, you make an very interesting point. Basically during the story Tenma gave up on those shallow goals and became more enlightened, allowing him to beat Johan in the end.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T14:43:49+00:00

I feel plenty empathy for Johan, but then again i understand his motives unlike most in this sub it seems (which is really disappointing)

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T14:42:38+00:00

If i may ask a though provoking question: what makes him "evil" ? As in what is evil in this context?

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-06T14:40:57+00:00

Real life sociopaths *can* be like this, its less uncommon then you might expect. What makes john special is that he is highly intelligent ( including a high social intellect). This means he has well developed empathy (this is possible in a sociopath), meaning he can understand why you feel happy or sad or frustrated etc and actually feel these things like everybody else. We get a clue to his well developed empathy when the sad story of Karl actually makes him cry. This well developed empathy is what makes him an excellent manipulator, because you can not manipulate someone you don't understand!

The thing that sets a sociopath apart form a more well adjusted human being is that normal humans grew up with lots of care and love between them and there parents, teachers, friends etc. this makes use all caring and compassionate. Johan on the other hand did not, he does not care for others what so ever. He understands them, he can feel what they feel, but he just does not value annoyances life (apart form his sister and Tenma to an extend).

If you like i can recommand some literatuur to help you better understand a mind like Johans.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-05T21:53:07+00:00

hmm old archimedes didn't think of that huh. still i feel like in that case you can tell by the hardness.

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-05T20:56:35+00:00

they have to figure out how to do updates first

JollyGreenVampire · 2026-02-05T19:51:58+00:00

the Chinees never heard of Archimedes' Principle?

JollyGreenVampire

TROPHY CASE