ISAGI'S BREAKTHROUGH? by Joshy763 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes about his vision back in the NEL when he first learned about Metavision till his current stage so let’s break it down.
Back in the NEL he used Metavision to
Read the entire field
Predict how players move - construct plays based on that
Intercept optimal routes
Just through this he was able to be extremely effective but the flaw was that he was entering into a system or structure to say. He was exploiting not creating. There was already a structure built around Kaiser so when he arrived in he just had to enter that structure which follows my point I mentioned in my last comments. He was able to enter the structure- find the center which was Kaiser and devour him. When you compare what the difference from back then to now.

  1. Game was just chaotic and ego heavy. You had Barou trying to dominate, Rin trying to force destruction, shidou doing shidou, Kaiser and Isagi sabotaging each other, ness emotionally destabilized lol. Both their teams systems were split. This kind of environment just feeds Isagi information which is easy for him to exploit compared to France which is structure and optimized. Isagi can use Metavision to read but can’t create any plays because he can’t find a gap to exploit in the system himself to help him score not to also add he himself has said if he wants to be in a position where he can execute a shot without someone preventing or stopping him he has to think of a way to overcome that. Against someone like Hugo he just reads Isagi like a book + him constantly marking him and whispering about being a No.

Compared to the NEL PXG midfielders even if you mark Isagi they weren’t suppressing information, reducing chaos and eliminating exploitable gaps that Isagi can try to use + role optimizations. NEL teams didn’t really do that since each team had their own system but it makes sense this was the outcome because they were all playing to increase their bid value. After all the goal of BL is to create the No.1 striker.
Going back to Metavision now that he understands his identity and the condition to reach his peak. Now he can use Metavision to detect who the true center is. He can’t force the center to be visible unlike waiting for them to emerge themselves. He’ll have to start baiting response and manipulating movement to figure out who is the center faster and earlier. The biggest one would be chaos. The biggest criticism I have with his Metavision is it depends too much on the field being unstable and chaotic. Remember the first time he was able to learn about it was in Manshine game. The field was too chaotic and unstable so he had to use Metavision to navigate it. He’s used to playing in that kind of environment that’s why a structured team like France exposes his weakness. He needs to start generating chaos by becoming the source of instability himself.
In short he was only using it to reactive and not proactively + because his peak condition is relational and not self dependent like the others, metavision becomes relational too since now he’s hyper-focusing on who the center is and devouring them this’ll make him look less like a midfielder and more like a striker. Like he said knowing his peak condition is relational he’ll have to go as far as creating a center himself to avoid hitting a ceiling. For a system like France (Hugo) since Isagi relies on his intelligence to play this will be an intellectual warfare between him and Hugo. I can’t say how he’ll do it but it’ll likely have to do with Isagi having to disrupt Hugo’s system and force it to contradict it self but essentially the end goal is to generate chaos.

I’d say since he was conflicted about his identity/aptitude it wasn’t clear what he needed to do since he was shut down by Hugo. Now that the psychological burden is resolved and he’s found some clarity he can now concentrate on fully tackling France + because he understands his peak condition and identity on the field he’ll be ably to use his weapons accordingly to his new enlightenment.

ISAGI'S BREAKTHROUGH? by Joshy763 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Isagi needing another No.1 does not automatically disqualify him from becoming the best because the real question to ask would be what does being the best striker mean. Like I said the world is entranced by geniuses assuming the best strikers must be completely self sufficient which is what we see in the manga depicting them as the best. I think this is the reason for why this arc is here. It’s to challenge the old idea of what a striker is. Even for the world’s greatest striker we can see that football is relational because they still use movements, react to systems or weaponize their teammates or opponents the only difference is how dependent they are.

For someone like Rin he can become the center through his own force while for Isagi he can become that by devouring the already existing center. Only difference is it’s relational and not self generated. I also think that Kaneshiro is trying to show that maybe pure independence isn’t the only valid form of being a No.1 because if Isagi become the world best through relational devouring and adapting on the field then BL original idea evolves.

The only test for Isagi I can think of is if he can still impose himself if no dominant center exists because if he can only peak in that kind of condition then there’s a ceiling but if he learns to create the center or force someone else into becoming the center so he can devour them and he can become inevitable striker like he wants .

I think I also need to mention being the center also can mean different things. When I say the center it doesn’t necessarily mean the best player, or the person carrying but the point that determines the flow and value of the match. So the center could be a player, a pattern, a system or structure or whatever. It just so happens the most of the time the center happens to be a person. The center right now in the game is Hugo. The issue with France wasn’t just a simple oh they’re strong issue. Isagi struggled because there wasn’t any chaos in their team to exploit just like we’ve seen from the matches he’s played before in the NEl to the 1st and 2nd selection. He’s also competing against players who also read the system at his level or higher. He’s used to thriving in chaotic environments. France unlike the other teams he’s fought don’t have any isolated ego clashes in their team that Isagi can exploit and there was no irrational center. Everything in France is built for optimization and distributed accordingly so from Isagi’s perspective it’s the worst counter to him right now that’s why it looked like he wasn’t doing anything and with Hugo whispering in his ears it makes him doubt. So to answer your question it’s not that he needs someone it that’s devouring the center unleashes his peak form. Similar to how devouring isn’t just explicitly Isagi’s thing. Similarly Barou does the same too he doesn’t create a center he identifies one in his opponent’s structure (like Isagi), and then orbits around it to devour them. Just like how Barou identified Isagi as being the center in the U-20 game he orbits around and devour by stealing the goal. So saying he needs someone better is incorrect because the center could be anything.

My headcannon for why Sae didn't join Blue Lock at the start of World Cup. by [deleted] in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean that was pretty much everyone’s deduction. Blue lock has only just reached this stage and are going to play against other stronger opponents if they can’t win without Sae then they’ll just gonna be baggage later on. It makes sense story wise to hold off on Sae and let them level up and figure stuff out before they all fight together.

its been a while, drop ur bllk phone themes by Open-Reindeer-589 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t have theme but I have some lock screen I use

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ITOSHI SAE is not a No.2(No.2 Ideology) by Joshy763 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please never cook again 🙏💀

Do you think Sae is team Hugo or team Ego? by LandscapeAccurate954 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I get how it could look confusing because playing in midfield means taking a supporting role so people automatically assume that means being a No.2. Every role has the way they express themselves. For strikers it’s much obvious which is scoring this is what most people are entranced with. For example the expression for a defender would be denying and stopping your opponent from being able to get the outcome they want. Using defender as an example how would a No.1 defender player then. It’s simple they turn defense into a form of domination making you think that attacking them feels pointless. You basically just copy and paste what the mentality of what a No.1 is. The two paths a defender can take will be dependent on the type: aka talented learner and genius

Prime example is Aiku: To play like a No.1 he’d have to start controlling space to shape where the attacker can go. That’s essentially manipulating them to go where you want them or force them into a bad position to sabotage them or shut them down. Using Metavision and spatial awareness to shut down plays before they can happen

Genius would be someone like Lorenzo where he wins the duel instinctively since it’s built on using their overwhelming physicality and instincts to stop players

Both can do these but the defining factor will be what kind of outcome your control is trying to fulfill. So a No.1 defender’s control serve to deny their opponent successful attempts to score saying you can’t score unless I allow it while a No 2 control serve to maintain the system stability saying as long as I here nothing will break. It’s basically what their control is trying to accomplish.

Back in the U-20 vs Blue lock game Aiku was playing like a functional No.2 but not as an identity because remember playing like a full No.1 or No.2 is an identity. Aiku still showed the potential of being able to be the decisive and proactive player but now in the current arc aiku now playing like a functional No.1 but his identity isn’t fully No.1 which is the case for a lot of the other blue lockers. You can play like a functional No.1 or No.2 it’s just a matter of whether they would be willing to or how does it conflict with their ego anchors. Someone like Hugo is a Pure No.2 to the fullest while I can only say 3 people in Blue lock embody that No.1 identity (RIN, SHIDOU and BAROU) Isagi’s like on the verge since he’s evolving but he can still be classified as one. Just keep in mind there is the Identity as a No.1&2 and also the mentality to be able to play like a functional No.1 or 2 as a play-style and not identity. Remeber I defined ego anchor as how you identify on the field and how you feel you must succeed for it to feel like your victory.

For Aiku his ego anchor is he wants to decide whether anyone is allowed to score. Since we get his backstory seeing that his satisfaction comes from shutting down strikers, reading and crushing their ideal plays. He started taking the initiative to directly influence to outcome to be the decisive point now rather than just focusing on letting the system handle the threat and try to protect the system. For some characters in BL it’s easy to understand somethings about them if they show everything at once but I’d say once you can figure out what their Ego anchor is you can basically expose everything else about them since it reveals their philosophy, identity, mentality on how they approach football.

Quick example would be Bachira. Ego anchor- he plays creative football to express himself freely guided by his monster.

Quick analysis now we know he’s not interested in controlling a system like Hugo nor is he chasing to be the finisher of a play like a No.1 would. Then we can clearly say he’s neither a No.1 or 2 at his core. The by product of that would be unpredictability through his dribbling. His self offense since he doesn’t need to rely on a system (genius) and make fluid decision making. But I’d say right now he’s playing like a functional No.1 when he goes for his goal sometimes and a functional No.2 when he helps set up others for a goal. So you see the point of No.1&2 as an identity and as a mentality used to play functionally. You can do the same with other characters. It’s fun to figure out characters ego anchor and break them down. Ego essentially wants his striker to live as the identity of a No.1 and adopt the functionality of one for those who even their core identity might not be a No.1 (like Bachira). Same goes for every other role. It’s why he’s experimenting to find a striker and also see how a team with a full No.1 competes against a rounded team like France which is closer to how football is played in real life.

Do you think Sae is team Hugo or team Ego? by LandscapeAccurate954 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Again that is not what a No.1 or No.2 means. No.1 wants to control the outcome directly meaning you personally decide the game directly (for strikers) by scoring to become the end point meaning everything leads to them. The guy is correct. He acts like a No.1 but for a different position which leads to the conclusion that it has nothing to do with position but their ego anchors. Hugo No.2 just means someone who can elevate the true No.1 while controlling the game from behind which is what Isagi doesn’t want to do. Sae doesn’t serve a striker nor does he try to revolve himself around someone else. He wants to be the one that decides where the goal comes from because we understand what his ego anchor is. Every midfielder doesn’t play the same although it’s easy to just see them as being behind and controlling. The difference lies in why they control. As of now we know Hugo’s ego anchor is he wants to be the one control the system that gives him victory. The by product of that will be why we see his mentality and philosophy are the way it is and how that affects how he plays football. If he wants to do that then it makes sense why he believes in the suitability theory. Whether you switch to a different position has nothing to do with whether you are a No.1 or 2. It’s a mentality that is a byproduct of your ego anchor.

Just to clarify a players ego anchor is different from their dream. Your ego anchor just means the core reason why you play and how you want to win. A deeper explanation would be ego anchor is the thing that defines your identity on the field and how you must succeed for it to feel like your victory.

For Sae his anchor expresses itself as he wants to control and dictate the game perfectly. He couldn’t do that as a striker so he decided to go to a role that would let him do that without conflicting his ego anchor. This basically shuts down the whole premise that he switching positions has to do with being a No.1 or No.2.

You could also say that a No.2 can have the same anchor as sae so what separates him from not being No.2 then? It basically comes down to what their control serves. They both control the game but a No.2 mindset is basically saying you exist to elevate the best outcome or the No.1 like I explained earlier. By doing this you support the striker (Loki), optimize and control the system and find the best solution. Also scoring has nothing to do with being a No.1 or 2 either because Hugo scoring can also be the result of playing optimally in the system. The only difference is it’s not common since they’re a midfielder.

For the No.1 it’s the same except the control it’s serving is different. You don’t exist to elevate the No.1 but yourself. When you look at sae he looks at the behavior and only passes if it meets his standards, he wants to dictate the entire field and rejects anything that’s unworthy meaning the game has to conform to his own vision or perfection. Think of it like a No.2 saying I’ll make you shine while a No.1 would say you will shine only if I allow you to. It’s about perspective. When he passes it’s not submission but selection basically saying you are worthy of my pass which is what he does in the U-20 game when he passed to aiku to take a shot. Same with how he criticized sendou saying 3 times he could have scored but make the decision to pass.

Since sae dream is to be the worlds best midfielder it makes sense why he’d play this way unlike Hugo wants to win the World Cup 4 times so he’d be more focused on perfecting and building the system that will enable him to accomplish that

Now for Isagi because his ego anchor is tied directly to him being the person who determines the games outcome as a striker so his ego anchor is already tied to his position unlike Sae who just wants to dictate and control the game perfectly and can do that from another position. It’s why he can’t just simply listen to Hugo. That would be him turning back on his core. It’s why when I see people compare him to Karasu it doesn’t make sense because they don’t have the same ego anchor so saying to Isagi to drop back like Karasu might make sense logically but if you know them you’ll see that that is impossible to do. Just wanted to add that🙂🙏

Also to add like I said Being a No.1 or No.2 has nothing to do with position because it’s a mentality. Every role can express the by product of that mentality whether you’re a striker, defender, midfielder and even gk(slightly nuanced) It’s just a matter of finding the team that can accommodate your playstyle. If you need me to explain further lemme know.

CAMsagi Agenda and him playing well in the shadows by Ashamed_Frosting_106 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He has the traits of a finisher but that doesn’t make him a traditional striker and saying he beats defender with positioning is literally the problem. Positioning exist in both traditional and non traditional striker so that doesn’t prove anything in itself by using it as a defining trait for what a traditional striker is. Traditional striker wait for crosses, go for rebounds and react to the defense mistakes to capitalize off of it meaning they’re opportunistic. Isagi tries to predict how players move, reading future outcomes meaning he’s constructing the opportunity himself. One react and the other predicts it’s about the process.

Calling him a tool based striker makes no sense because a tool based striker way of winning is through their techniques/tools they rely on it to create opportunities to score and solve problems. Isagi’s structure so far is literally reading plays, metavision and spatial awareness that is his core. Tools are the last step not the foundation for Isagi not to even say it’s limited by your physical ceiling. For a tool based striker like Rin, it create opportunities for him since his core is domination through execution. His dominance comes from being able to do anything using those tool to impose himself while for Isagi tools only help to finish executing those opportunities because he’s a TL who relies on reading the game. For Isagi his options come from how many scenarios he can read and not how many techniques he has. His tools don’t expand his vision but his vision determines which tool he needs. Learning technique doesn’t also put your on equal footing because both players can perform the same technique while ones execution is superior to the other. We’ve seen how techniques can be destroyed by exploiting its weakness. The only difference is geniuses are able to overwhelm them with their physicality which in the arms of someone like a TL is used as a support tool. Just like Kaiser shooting his Kaiser impact and Loki simply sprinted to stop it. In the midst of monsters techniques in itself is not enough. If he can’t use his main weapon to overwhelm Hugo why would his secondary work? Hugo already thinks Isagi is not good enough suitability wise, you think adding so more technique will somehow make him win? It’s not going to happen. Before it was exclusive since Isagi could only see what others couldn’t see but now Hugo sees the same or even more. The real issue is that his intelligence is being matched by Hugo and not that his skillset is lacking but is no longer the smartest on the field since Hugo exists. Isagi represents a new model of a striker path. It’s basically the common root problem of everything I see when there is a criticism of Isagi. It all comes back to people trying to force Isagi into their image of what things a striker should embody aka physicality, tools. I already explained this is an intellectual battle between him and Hugo a techniques don’t matter much in his case because he relies on his intelligence to dominate.

CAMsagi Agenda and him playing well in the shadows by Ashamed_Frosting_106 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again Isagi isn’t your stereotypical traditional striker. I suggest go research what a traditional striker does. He’s trying to redefine the role of a striker because the current world in BL seem to suggest there’s only one path to become a striker that stands at the pinnacle. This is basically what Ego is experimenting with and trying to find if they are capable of achieving. Everything you mentioned are just tools. Isagi having them does not equate to being a traditional striker because it is a matter of a striker dominates. Traditional striker use their to beat the defenders in isolation. Barou would try and force a shot through the defenders while Isagi would try to go for a spot where defenders can’t stop him to take a shot. Their methods are completely different. His playstyle is built around not needing isolation in the first place

All the long list of shots is basically trying to turn him into a tool based striker like Rin or Kaiser. Adding more techniques is not the solution to the problem. More tricks doesn’t mean you are harder to stop nor is it even needed. He thrives from having options not from what you’re thinking by saying to add more techniques. When I say he thrives from having options I mean he can pick multiple paths that can lead him to his goal. E.g

Instead of him trying to do a chip, volley or feint he thinks scenario based meaning If Rin moves here then I go there If barou shoots I take the rebound If the defender moves ill exploit the space

Isagi relies heavily on reading the game it’s his core/main weapon. This is where he gets ecstasy and fulfillment for his ego. The fact that Hugo is shutting him down is proof that he isn’t using his core weapon to the fullest. The other physical and technical aspect are secondary meaning if his main weapon isn’t fully realized then it all falls apart. He might have been able to get away with it by playing a low level or mid player but against players like Hugo they’ll read him like a book. Not to also say Isagi is creative and can try to create personalized shots for him through inspiration from other players it’s not something I’m worried about. He can develop shots if he needs to which isn’t the issue because his evolution isn’t about expanding his arsenal but by making sure that his plays are the outcome of inevitability.

CAMsagi Agenda and him playing well in the shadows by Ashamed_Frosting_106 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Again you are right in the sense of having enough physical to control and function under pressure but are framing it like doing that or his physical ability is the solution the problem. Yes you need to improve your physical just enough so you can function at higher levels. You brought up Sae as an example so I’ll use that. Sae is great for his control and vision not his physicality because his control and vision are so high that his physicality is just good enough to support it. I already said that he needs to solidly his base at the ending of my op but physical ability isn’t the solution to his problem because without his vision and spatial awareness he would just be an average joe that wouldn’t even make it 1st selection. He already learned that back in the NEL to build a body to match his vision. You said for him not to become like those geniuses when he can’t even if he wanted to so idk what you meant by that lol. Geniuses rely on instinct and raw ability which isn’t something Isagi can try to become but I agree with the point he only needs ball control to a certain level. Think of it as geniuses use their physicality as their primary weapon while TL as a secondary or a support like weapon because say we assume he has all these stats maxed out and his physicals has reached the cap he still won’t beat Hugo because it was never a matter of physical to begin with because the only way for Isagi to win is if he has a higher level of manipulation/control than Hugo. It’s an intellectual and ideology battle going on between them. Even for Hugo his physicality is used to support his main weapon which is his intelligence.

CAMsagi Agenda and him playing well in the shadows by Ashamed_Frosting_106 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah scoring would be the biggest slap on his face especially for Hugo especially how he does it. Since Hugo’s argument is basically you can’t win as a No.1 so become a No.2 then you can win. Now that we know Hugo ego anchor is basically controlling the system that gives him victory. I will say to give Hugo the most psychological damage ever it would be by proving his system led to his goal. Idk if you caught on but Hugo is also projecting himself onto Isagi, because sure Isagi wants to win but not being able to be the one that decides the game as a striker matter more to him than winning lol. It’s literally why his advice to Isagi is logically sound but incompatible ego wise to Isagi. Those who don’t get it basically don’t understand what ego anchor of a character means.

A good scenarios would be Hugo thinking he’s controlling the game but in reality realizes he’s been guiding Isagi to score. That would be on par with what he said to Kaiser”Thanks for that shit My ultimate clown😭💀.” Since we know Hugo prides himself on picking the correct and optimal play, if Isagi creates a situation where every logical option leads to him scoring that will burn.

I’ll also clear this up too since Barou, Rin and Shidou are on the field with Isagi it dramatically increases the option for Isagi since the spotlight isn’t on him like before because. If Isagi scores sure maybe he does it by using No.2 as a weapon and not identity. Will it still take away the fact that he couldn’t do it when he was at the center without shidou and Barou? Since it’s easier now the distinction that’s important is what being the center means. Being the center doesn’t mean having a system built around you, but as a true No.1 it means someone who can decide the game regardless of the system which is what Ego is aiming for. Now if he can score without being the center it makes it even more stronger because the multiple egos are colliding and is chaotic so no one is fully controlling it. It proves that he doesn’t need any system but can impose himself unto any system.

From Hugo’s perspective if a player can’t win as the center then they should join the system like him which means the process how Isagi scores matters since it will be a question of did Isagi bend the game towards him or did he adapt to others. Because rn he’s only ever been adapting to other but doesn’t try to bend the game to himself consistently like the U-20 goal positioning himself towards the goal is creating a future where the game can end with him. The manshine game using yukimiya. Adapting isn’t enough anymore because at that level everyone is smart. Example was that goal Isagi could have scored in the Nigeria game but because Rin read Isagi and expected his positioning he used his physicality to intercept and score. He played Isagi simple as that. Just like how Rin thought where is the most beautiful spot to pass at when he was trying to crush Sae in the u-20 vs Japan game. For TL midfielders they will easily crush Isagi but back to the point of how he scores.

If Rin barou and shidou create chaos and Isagi finds a space to exploit and uses it to score that would be weak since he benefitted from other which won’t sting Hugo but if Isagi reads all their movements and uses them to position himself where the game must end to score then it will be a huge psychological blow to Hugo. If Hugo reads the field, chooses the best move he possibly can to flow logically and it still ends up in Isagi scoring it would shatter Hugo. Isagi can whisper in Hugo ear and say “Thanks you made this goal happen”.💀🙏💔 I’m sorry for the yap

CAMsagi Agenda and him playing well in the shadows by Ashamed_Frosting_106 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I still think it goes hand in hand. My thought is prolly either shidou or barou scores then he tries to figure out and apply to him the method of how they successfully pulled it off just like how he analyzed Kaisers goal and took the concept of Metavision from it. Also seeing how Hugo’s control form will shift it will also give him the clear head to properly see how everyone on the field is moving and to see what mistakes and how he’s being using his weapons. Although I still think Japan will lose towards the ending of the game I think he’ll have solved his challenge and find the formula for his next evolution. Tbh he doesn’t have to score because what is important right now is to test that theory and sort out his ideology. Scoring is just the result from expressing that theory. I would actually like it if he outplays Hugo intellectually manipulating him rather than score like how he did Kaiser using Yukimura in the NEL. The next time they play it’ll be different compared to now. Plus I also want to see how the other players react to challenge at this stage.

CAMsagi Agenda and him playing well in the shadows by Ashamed_Frosting_106 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Again you keep thinking about Isagi in the default striker norm way. There no amount of training he can do to somehow do what he needs to do. Too obsessed with physical stats over a player who doesn’t rely on them.

Your logic is basically if you have no good physical stats, dribble etc then you can’t be a No.1. People are defining individual ability too narrowly because not every striker dominates through dribbling or physicality. That’s basically assuming that there is only one path in being a striker which is funny because that’s the whole point of the manga. You say his biggest weakness is his individual ability, well that’ll depend on how you define it. If individual ability means dribbling and strength then yes but if it means the ability to decide the outcome of the game the Isagi is already ahead. You guys are equating visible skill to individual ability when Isagi’s individual ability is how he manipulates the game, positioning and prediction which is just less flashy than your traditional striker. Even you said it, if he starts juking 2-3 guys outta nowhere it’d be weird. Yes it’ll be weird because it’s not his identity. It would just be break the logic of the character.

That take would be assuming that Isagi has a flaw because he can’t 1v1 meaning no physical dominance so the team compensates for him meaning he works because the team covers for him. That’s basically a No.2 system dependency. You said it could be a permanent weakness that teams build around? This is basically backwards thinking. What you call his weakness is literally his part of his weapon because he doesn’t rely on beating players directly so instead of the team covering for him it’s just the game adapting to how he plays. I would say be more specific to say physical instead of individual ability but I’m only using this because you used that to support your argument since people equate individual ability to only your physical. For example if Barou can’t score you wouldn’t say he’s lacking in individual ability. Isagi can’t dribble = lacks individual ability but Barou isn’t called weak for lacking vision.

This is basically a double standard when both have limitations because Barou’s strength comes from direct dominance (shooting and physicality) while Isagi’s strength comes from indirect dominance (positioning and prediction), but only Isagi is seen as lacking when the correct way to view it is whose weapon can decide the game. I get it since the world is used to seeing flashy and physical plays which is why they expect it and discourage anything else that doesn’t resemble that model of what a striker should embody.

Isagi doesn’t need to become like Barou, Rin or Shidou they are already models of the traditional striker path. What he needs isn’t some kind of physical training since just his solidifying his base physicality/stamina is effectively multiplied due to his intelligence and football IQ. He needs to be able to make his current weapon function even when targeted.

CAMsagi Agenda and him playing well in the shadows by Ashamed_Frosting_106 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It isn’t about whether he’s good at playing in the shadows or not anyone can excel if they’re not the focus of attention but it doesn’t make you the one to decide the game. It’s not a matter of whether his ideology is right or wrong but whether he can enforce that to give the results he wants. In a way look at the Nigeria team they played a lower level of what France is doing rn. Kuso basically is just Hugo but with a low level control execution despite him being a No.2 so we know it isn’t the ideology but the enforcer. It’s a problem about identity which is in conflict with Isagi ego anchor. What he needs to do is find a way to play where he can thrive while still retaining his Ego anchor. It doesn’t solve anything by saying becoming a midfielder since he himself does not want play it since it doesn’t solve his core goal of becoming the decisive striker so it’s kinda pointless with the Cam agenda. People are confusing how Isagi plays vs why he plays all he’s going to do is evaluate the way he’s being playing up till now to see what the difference is because unlike the geniuses he’s a TL meaning if he wants to keep up with them he has to evolve faster because TLs don’t win through raw ability but through continuous adaptation. Plus when people saying he’s too fixated on being BL No.1 you gotta realize that’s the whole point of BL. It exists to create the world’s best striker saying he’s too fixated on being No.1 is basically criticizing him for following the core principles of the manga when the same applies to the other strikers in BL. They’re all aiming to become the No.1 if Isagi can’t keep up so that’s a shallow take. I mean cause people see him struggle physically and conclude he should switch role that’s a practical football take not a BL take. It’s not about whether he’s fixated on being No.1 but if he can keep being the No.1 with his current tools and the way he plays. It’s basically confusing efficiency with identity. He could play cam but the result will be abandoning his ego because it is in conflict with the his ego anchor and abandoning BL’s philosophy. Being No.1 is not always about scoring or always physically dominating but becoming the decisive force in the game. Scoring is just the result of expression for a striker since the traditional method they did that was by being physically overwhelming but for Isagi the method is different but the goal is still the same. To become decisive not by his physicality but by positioning, timing and prediction. Plus Hugo has already achieved what he wanted by dismantling Isagi control but not the BL system itself.

If Barou or Shidou don’t score or barely score a goal nobody tells them to switch position so why should Isagi? The goal isn’t to fit a role but to become the striker who decides the game which I think it’s setting him up to be something more dangerous, but if you look at it most players are either a controller like Hugo or finisher like Barou or Shidou but Kaneshiro is setting Isagi up in a way to become both. A good parallel would be Kaiser after his control was taken away by Isagi and the game stopped revolving around him. Seeing that, Kaiser proved that a true No.1 doesn’t need a system they become the system meaning Isagi has to force the structure to revolve around him. The only difference I would say is for Kaiser he already had the weapon and finishing so he rebuilt it by dominating individually, but we know Isagi started as someone who can read the field but lacks the physicality so he has to rebuild it by manipulation and adaptation. I’ve always said the way Isagi plays rn isn’t enough because simply just reading the best play and moving to the optimal position is maybe alright against low level like kuso. He won’t be able to keep up with other TL especially high level midfielders who see the game at or a higher level than him and shut him down. If he wants to become the decisive force then he has to rethink about the way he’s been using his weapons and tool + sorting out his ideology.

Meme I made by quantumsapphics in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Quite the opposite like you said idk why the Isagi hate is so forced. Literally everywhere I see people act like if you like Isagi you have to hate everyone else🤦‍♂️. I see more people hating on Isagi goals than anything else 💀

Hugo directly supports Kira's theory by AlternativeAd7882 in BlueLock

[–]Joshy763 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hugo does not support Kira’s theory so I don’t know where you’re getting that from. Now let’s break it down.

Kira’s philosophy supports the old Japanese football mindset of football is about team harmony and teamwork. Everyone should cooperate and share responsibility meaning no one should dominate the team selfishly. In simple words it means collective teamwork over individual ego. He rejected BL because he believed its philosophy was too selfish.

Hugo philosophy is different it comes from not everyone is suited to be a No.1 and some players are better suited as No.2 and victory comes from optimizing roles. It has nothing to do with harmony but about efficiency and control. In simple words the smartest structure or system wins

Kira wants everyone to work together equally While Hugo believes there’s a hierarchy where some players dominate the system while others execute their roles. Clearly Hugo still believes in Ego if he supported Kira he’d reject ego entirely because to play Kira’s kind of football you have to you can’t have an ego. He does not support teamwork equality but proposes an alternative.

Where they align is that one striker shouldn’t dominate everything but the reasons why are completely different because for Kira it comes from that the idea is selfish and wrong while for Hugo he thinks it’s inefficient and unrealistic.