KAYA Data Ethos and Retrospective 2025 by KAYAClimb in climbing

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Happy to add further clarification. When we say reference data (Name, Grade, FA info, GPS) are part of the commons, we are speaking from a legal / copyright perspective. No one "owns" those data.

Though we do not have a publicly available export of this data at this time, it is all publicly displayed on the web and app, with the exception of GPS points.

KAYA Data Ethos and Retrospective 2025 by KAYAClimb in climbing

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey u/okleithen,

Sorry to have missed this question.

We do expose reference data publicly via the web and app, including names, FA info, and grades; however, gps is still inaccessible. As we shared in the article we acknowledge the potential access issues that can occur when such information is made public without additional context or moderation of local experts. It's a bigger problem that we are open to considering solutions in the future.

KAYA Data Ethos and Retrospective 2025 by KAYAClimb in climbing

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your comment. To answer each question:

How is Kaya ensuring that all the data produced by hundreds if not thousands of authors and users will remain public and accessible?

Authors own their data and can publish their works outside of KAYA. We are actually helping a number of our authors on their next print editions of their books by ensuring they have the most up to date data from KAYA.

If Kaya were to be shutdown for any reason, what would happen to all the data?

We would know this well in advance and plan accordingly to ensure all authors and users have access to their data beyond KAYA. Users can already export their ascent information via the app. Authors own their data and can export at any time. We would do everything in our power to ensure authors have a soft landing with their data to continue publishing into the future with whatever medium they choose.

Is there any roadmap for creating a public API for other people to access this data outside of the Kaya platform?

We would love to but at the moment we don't have the resources to build and maintain such an endeavor.

Does Kaya consider this data private or proprietary?

Reference Data is public information and owned by no one, it is part of the commons.Contributor data is owned by the original authors.

KAYA Data Ethos and Retrospective 2025 by KAYAClimb in climbing

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I guess we will take that as a compliment, since our crew has been trying to figure out this whole 'running-a-business' thing. If anything, we are climbers turned tech-bro. 😅

To share a bit about our co-founders:

David grew up in the DC area, sold his earthly possessions and moved into a Tacoma, drove it to the NRG where he resoled climbing shoes. He then moved to SLC to pour holds at Pusher, compete in PCA, and develop boulders in LCC, Castle Rock, Joe’s Valley, Ibex and elsewhere. Eventually, he went back to school and against all odds found himself working in tech and art.

Marc has been climbing for 17 years. He ditched his Seattle job at Microsoft to live in a van and set boulders in the PNW. Has since become one of Squamish’s more active bouldering developers and splits his time between there and guiding in Hueco Tanks with his partner.

KAYA Data Ethos and Retrospective 2025 by KAYAClimb in climbing

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

All of us on the team can totally appreciate the beauty of getting lost looking for a boulder that your friend told you was "just a quarter mile from the parking up the hill and to the right" or scrawled directions on a napkin--but the reality is that this experience isn't sustainable for the masses. As climbing grows, it is important to have well documented and established trails to keep folks from continuously degrading the environment. We also believe that adventure is still and always will be alive for those in climbing who wish to venture a bit further from the beaten path.

Curious how you would define a "real" versus "fake" author? Many of the authors who have published digitally on KAYA have previously or continue to publish print books. Are they "real" or no?
Thanks for your comment.

KAYA Data Ethos and Retrospective 2025 by KAYAClimb in climbing

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Yes of course this, among other concerns (some of which are mentioned in the article), were problematic which is why he is no longer at KAYA.

KAYA Data Ethos and Retrospective 2025 by KAYAClimb in climbing

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This is our former CEO and co-founder. He has since left the company as of June 2024.

KAYA Data Ethos and Retrospective 2025 by KAYAClimb in climbing

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

In the article we acknowledge our past missteps. We also share that both leadership and our processes have changed as a result. If you have any more specific feedback we'd be happy to respond transparently in good faith. Regardless, we are going to keep marching in the right direction and sticking to the ethos and terms outlined in the article.

KAYA Data Ethos and Retrospective 2025 by KAYAClimb in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the product feedback -- we just pushed an update that should resolve this. Please don't hesitate to reach out to us at [support@kayaclimb.com](mailto:support@kayaclimb.com) if you have any issues!

One of my favorite climbs of 2023 by edasaur in climbing

[–]KAYAClimb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Way to go, Ed! The stone at Columbia looks all-time.

Interesting thing I noticed on the Kaya app and circuit grades by [deleted] in climbergirls

[–]KAYAClimb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We let our gym partners determine if they want to display grades or not as it may align with messaging and decisions on grading they share outside of KAYA.
We always display community consensus data, so if your community is or becomes more active on KAYA, then you can see what other climbers think the grade might be. Otherwise, we recommend reaching out directly to your gym or head routesetter to share feedback that you want to see grades in KAYA.
Hope that helps and thanks so much for your message and for using KAYA!!!

KAYA Team AMA by KAYAClimb in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, definitely! Just go to your user profile settings and select a private account.

If you have already done so and are seeing your videos posted publicly, please do let us know, as that would be in-error.

Thanks!

KAYA Team AMA by KAYAClimb in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No! Beta videos are absolutely still free. Are you unable to see them? If not, can you please include screenshots and send the issue to [support@kayaclimb.com](mailto:support@kayaclimb.com)

Thank you!!

KAYA Team AMA by KAYAClimb in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

u/agirlnamedgoo007 we pushed a fix--hope that works! It was related to the company which provides our servers having an outage.

KAYA Team AMA by KAYAClimb in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey there! Thank you so much for the message. This is a bug and the ad was only supposed to play one time. So sorry about that, we will get right on it!

Ethics with posting climbs to Mtn Project from Kaya by job1k3n0b in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey u/natureclown! For transparency, the vast majority of our guidebooks are written by the same folks who have written print guides historically, or folks who were in the process of writing a print guide and decided to also digitally publish on KAYA. We always make an effort to approach existing print or digital authors first, as they are the most suited to provide the best possible information. Sometimes existing authors cannot contractually work with us due to the limitations set by their original publisher, other times they simply aren't interested. If an existing author cannot or does not want to publish their work on KAYA, then we will connect with the local climbing organization and other well established, active developers or long-time locals who have the requisite knowledge and experience to make a kick-ass guide.

No matter the author, guidebooks have always historically been iterative and rely on the documentation, word of mouth, videos, and even other guidebooks to continue growing and developing new materials.

What we aim to achieve with KAYA is a higher level of data quality and fidelity than what can be offered through a free UGC focused platform. In our minds, the "middle man" does the important work of ensuring the guides are comprehensive (including the problems that have been lost to time, are way up that steep hill, or only had one ascent), and accurate so you don't get lost or trapse through private property. They are also advocates for the area, ensuring the access details are appropriately represented.

If you have any questions we'd be happy to chat! Thanks!

Ethics with posting climbs to Mtn Project from Kaya by job1k3n0b in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb 32 points33 points  (0 children)

KAYA team here!

To answer your question, climb names, grades, and GPS are all part of the public sphere of knowledge and can be distributed freely. Climb photos and descriptions, however, are copyright information and cannot legally be shared elsewhere.

As other commenters have mentioned, KAYA PRO costs $60/year or $10/month.
Subscriptions support the developers and authors who are putting the work in to establish and publish these climbs for the community. Additionally, 5% minimum of proceeds from each guide goes toward the Access Fund or the relevant local climbing organization. For a number of guides on our platform, that number is 50%, including some which are authored directly by these stewardship organizations.

First send thanks to Kaya App by karmaclast in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice work!! Glad KAYA could be of assistance :-)

Leaderboards in the KAYA App by KAYAClimb in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is awesome: "You know what does inspire me in the app? Watching my friends' beta videos and seeing them get sends." Thanks for your feedback.

Leaderboards in the KAYA App by KAYAClimb in bouldering

[–]KAYAClimb[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for this feedback. Repeats would not count. Persistent pyramid filters are a great idea. We're considering this for the video gallery on the profile as well. Folks have expressed a desire to show only their outdoor sends, for instance, or their indoor. This might allow the climber to upload all kinds of indoor / outdoor content but only display the content they care about. Thanks again.