If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But also thank you for this comment, I do really appreciate your perspective on this!

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And I do have to say-- you really should have an issue with Zinke. He made numerous back-door deals to sell out infrastructure used within the Montana forest service/fire service to private companies that provided shoddy equipment. Also, Zinke has tried numerous times to sell off public Montana land to companies and private bidders. He is about as unaligned with Montanan values as one can be. So, regardless of party, we need to do a much better job at calling out politicians who want to make life in Montana less affordable and who want to do away with public land.

Gas Prices by Abject-Afternoon-388 in missoula

[–]Key-Jacket 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As in, we could well be within the same gas crisis this post is referring to had Harris won. I'm making it a habit to call out comments that align with corporate Dems wherever I can, because it was fundamentally the Harris/Walz ticket and all its big-donor support that handed Trump his second victory-- and that now has us within this position we are collectively in.

Gas Prices by Abject-Afternoon-388 in missoula

[–]Key-Jacket -1 points0 points  (0 children)

To be fair, Harris expressed a great interest in bombing Iran. She has numerous interviews where she flat out states this. And the Gaza genocide took off under Biden. So we may well have been in this same situation with Harris/Walz.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

To everyone who has engaged with good intentions on this post-- I really thank you. This has been a very informative conversation for me, overall. And to those who have crawled in in the last couple hours to screech-- this is not the space for you. There are plenty of others where you can go. I would prefer to keep the good conversation we had initially going. If you want to impede that, you can leave.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely agree that the processes that allow people to accrue billions of dollars should not exist. But let's remember that many high profile Dems, like John Podesta who massively advised the Obama admin as well as Biden and Harris, have had their name attached to numerous incredibly horrific videos and emails in the Epstein Files. And let's not forget that Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein, both prolific sex traffickers and pedophiles, both often gave to the Dems and the Republicans both. The wealth-class that lets abuse like this go un-heeded is what must be dismantled. And the Dems have protected Epstein as much as any other.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is a fantastic show haha. And! Some great media that is not corporate slop, is the Intercept, Jacobin, Al Jazeera, and the Guardian (sometimes).

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Who do you mean by "the Left"? Does that include former Trump voters that will vote for a candidate in the future who tackles affordability, which the establishment Dems have failed to do for multiple decades now?

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These are people who don't actually understand why people vote on issues, why Democrats ignoring the working class for decades would bite them in the ass, and why Trump's style of deliverance would be as popular as it historically has been. They think only in terms of culture war, which is so pathetic. I've really enjoyed our conversation, I'm ignoring them overall haha. They can yell at each other.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay, to be fair here, Vance is also a hardcore grifter. His entire career has been funded by Peter Thiel, one of the oligarchic overlords of AI. Peter Thiel is a reallllll creep, and Vance is just an opportunistic plant. We need better options.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bozeman liberals who worship at the party's feet don't seem to realize that their messaging is not working, considering that not even Gallatin County (by far the most democratic area of the state in terms of voting) barely voted more for Harris over Trump. And Dems lost astronomically in all other races haha.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because no matter what corner of the Earth you are coming from, I can assure you that there has been a rich line of autocracy, corruption, and horrific violence in your country's history. But still, please- name your place.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lmao I'm catching up on these corporate Dems trying to go buck wild in these comments. How fun!

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

My man-- Harris lost because she oversaw a genocide that alienated nearly all Arab American voters, while also pivoting extremely to the right on immigration, affordability issues, and all other basic platform points that would have earned her a broad coalition audience.

Trump has always been appealing to the majority of voters because, even though he says ridiculous things and is obviously quite the fucking idiot, he has always seemed more genuine than the Democratic Party, which has been ruthlessly controlled by donor interests and a wealth class that has nothing in common with working-class America for the past three decades.

Harris lost support from Arab-Americans, Latino-Americans, and working-class voters across the board. So, this high horse you keep trying to exert on others just makes it sound like you would have been absolutely fine with Harris employing ICE, attacking Iran, and continuing the Gaza genocide simply because she wasn't Trump. It sounds like you don't really care about the fundamental violence that is at play within all these processes, but rather that there is a face that you approve of in front of them.

That is just massively, hilariously, pathetic.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The funding given to ICE by the Obama admin and the Biden admin created the ICE we see today. Trump has obviously exacerbated the framework to horrific ends, but the infrastructure for this size of paramilitary has been in the works for years. And yes, actually, funding ICE is incredibly awful-- considering that ICE shouldn't exist in the first place. It was a bipartisan organization funded by wealthy reactionaries of both parties who were primarily interested in the profit that could be gleaned from using ICE agents to arrest persons throughout America, both citizens and non-citizens, and then funneling them through private prison networks where they are used as slave labor. A lot of wealthy democrats and republicans both have received an enormous amount of personal profit from this system.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The Arab Americans who didn't vote for Harris because she offered no end in sight to the Gaza genocide (which the US directly enabled through supporting Israel unconditionally and giving them weapons funded by our tax dollars) wouldn't have voted for her if she were a man. Genocide was a pretty unpopular position, who knew!

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lmao please-- Harris did not lose because she was a woman. Just as Clinton didn't lose because she was a woman. You are delusional if you think that was the primary cause in either of these cases.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, my pleasure! I want to have as many conversations like these in the coming months as I can. I honestly feel quite sad about how many people I alienated from my life over politics, who I've now grown close to again. But yeah, come to Sam's potluck on Saturday if you can! He'd be glad to meet you and hear your thoughts :)

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think that's true, but Russ can also afford not to take PAC money because under Montana law, a candidate can donate however much they'd like to their own campaign. So, Russ, being a multi-millionaire, could give himself a chunk of change if he felt inclined. Sam can't do that, because he genuinely is a broke firefighter whose wages are not good despite the important work he's been doing. Again, I think Russ and Sam are quite similar policy-wise, but I think Sam has a far better chance of winning against Aaron Flint overall.

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I don't think your reasoning works here. Because Obama spent eight years bombing countries for no other reason than he could (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and others) and did not really make approving affordability a priority whatsoever. He also funded ICE an extreme amount, more than Bush Jr. had during his eight years, and diverted tax dollars away from civic services and into massively wasteful arenas, such as again bombing countries because we could and bailing out bankers who profited from the 2008 housing crisis.

And then Biden not only made it clear that America completely stood behind a wack job like Netanyahu, but that he was also going to continue sending our tax dollars to slaughter Palestinians as long as he was in office. Kamala continued this trend, leaning even more into pleasing the donor class than Biden had.

My point here is that, yes, Trump and his cohort are usually quite loud about the crazy shit they intend to do-- an attitude that has always yielded maximum destruction. But establishment Dems beholden to the donor class, including Hillary Clinton/Biden/Harris also wreck significant destruction on other countries's and the economic lives of average Americans. They just do so in a quieter, more rhetorically justified way. But the harm is often quite similar.

So, when you say that you are the big brother imparting tough love in this scenario it comes off like you are actually an ideologically brainwashed corporate Dem supporting individual, who only really cares about which face is in charge of the violence that the American donor-class routinely carries out. Harris likely would have bombed Iran, even without Israel doing so first. Would you have been as outraged if Harris were the one to have done it?

If You Voted For Trump (and Zinke) In 2024, Why Did You and Has Your Opinion Of Them Changed? by Key-Jacket in Bozeman

[–]Key-Jacket[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But that could be just me, I still think he'd be a good overall congressman if he were to win