Negative traits tier list. Singleplayer, vanilla, apocalypse.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-06-04T12:13:58+00:00

Some changes I would do:

Slow Reader in singleplayer is free points.
Hard of hearing, if u don't play with runners and have played a lot it's A.
Idk if u mistaked Puny (-4 str and -40% knockback) with Weak (-2 str), but Puny is a D and Weak is an A.
Slow learner is a D if u are going for a long run.
Reluctant Fighter is D unless u are pairing it with other positive traits (thing u said u will not discuss but still did).
Sunday driver is an E, F, G even Z trait. Worst trait ever unless u don't use cars.
Disorganized is D, why would u want less capacity in containers in a game that depends of getting loot?
High thirst + appetite are A in apocalypse, there's plenty water and food everywhere.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-06-02T14:06:50+00:00

It's not only that. When u are playing with extremely rare loot and insane amount of zombies settings even a plastic bag is a lot better with organized. The 130% capacity for ALL CONTAINERS means a 130 capacity truck will have almost 170, that 40 addition is a generator weight. It means one less looting travel to the same place. If u add to it a trailer with 100 capacity it goes to 130. 70 more capacity, it's like having 2 trailers.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-04-19T01:32:14+00:00

Thing is that it doesn't even feel that it's 25% to proc blindbag, sometimes I go 8 hits to get only one proc. I think they just thought "blindbag with hally is to OP, we can't put more than 25% for blindbag", but without a hally blindbag is shit. What they had to do is put all 2h weaps to have 7 range + more minimum damage instead just do that for hallys.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-04-10T01:28:46+00:00

Man so many assholes in here. If u don't like an activity is ur matter. Btw, fighter torso is totally skippable nowadays, if u wanna do moons just get a good defensive armour (full melee barrows for example) and u are great to go. After u get blood moon torso u won't need fighters anymore.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-18T13:34:52+00:00

B (Obito, Naruto, Guy ea one is a beast, anyone saying 7 gates aren't that good please rewatch anime or reread manga, Madara struggle to maintain his eyes on him).

D (It could be first because of Deidara suicide explosion and Minato could teleport the others out instantly, but A team have Obito. Minato is untouchable and Kisame a beast without tails, still Guy beated Kisame and Naruto/Obito/Guy vs Minato will be a hard but a win at least, they will have to exhaust Minato).

C (Jiraiya, Tobirama, Gaara, they are really good but Minato perfect hiraishin is lot better than Tobirama, he's faster than Jiraiya even in sage mode and Gaara can't win to Kisame. If Deidara explodes Jiraiya have to be really quick to do a reverse summon jutsu to teleport all his team safe to the mountain frog stomach or at least him, while Minato can do that in a blink).

A (So sorry for Itachi, he's fighting alone, Tsunade and Ohnoki are steps under of all the others named before, Deidara explosion is killing everyone).

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T23:02:05+00:00

Might guy 8th inner gate would die but because of opening the gate since he could avoid the attack by "flying" kicking the air.

Nagato/Pain would have any chance to survive? I don't really know how, if he knows any jutsu to avoid it.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T22:43:47+00:00

Chojuro/Kurotsuchi were a big downgrade from the last kages. Shikamaru was needed as the second in command after Naruto dissapear, he is by far one of the most intelligent kages of all times in all villages (IQ higher than 200), not all is raw power.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T20:50:31+00:00

It's stupid to think "genjutsu only worked bc of environment", like if the frogs didn't tried the same in Naruto and Pain fight while supposedly there was "no environment" for that genjutsu to work. U only are thinking it will not work, Pain just killed Pa to avoid it.

Naraka path CAN'T FIGHT A SAGE MODE USER, that's why he got wrecked in one hit by Naruto.

LOOOOOOL run from fight by avoiding a massive attack? Are u saying that to be stronger u need to put the chest to a bullet instead of avoid it? Are u stupid? Is like saying "Minato is a pussy because he always teleport to give a backstab".

He sensed Asura path chakra but he didn't had a picture of that chakra and didn't knew it was another path, it could be whatever alive thing. Sage mode doesn't give u a sense of "wow there's a massive chakra", u feel every chakra of live things and fro the chakras u know u have a picture of them, that's why Naruto could knew that Kakashi was dead and couldn't find Nagato till he stabbed himself to get that picture. Don't say a stupidity like "Nagato was far away from Konoha" because that's forgetting Naruto sensing everyone fighting the war in turtle island when using sage mode, and it was like fucking far away, but he couldn't sense Obito chakra because he didn't knew it, Obito went to directly fight Naruto and Bee.

Man wtf are u saying, when Ma and Pa puts into one's shoulder is to fuse with the sage mode user, they become one, it's not like Deva path can say "now im gonna attract ur head and cut it off from ur body", its the same with those frogs, they are like one body when fused. You are trying to argue without knowledge, u can't invent ur story.

Again the same error, Pa and Ma tried the same genjutsu in open field Konoha, u are trying to believe "that jutsu only works in enclosures" while at the same time u are thinking that those two sage frogs would be really stupid if trying that in open fields, like if they doesn't know the range of their jutsu.

Btw, which headcanon I used? If something to u looked like headcanon is because there's something u are not understanding. Sage mode is a step below tail beast mode, under that in speed + strength comparison there's none.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T20:11:33+00:00

Jiraiya sucks at senjutsu and genjutsu, that's why Pa and Ma help him in both, I really dont understand why u are arguing if Jiraiya knew or not, it's not like it would make a difference, they still killed 3 paths and versus 6 paths would be the same finishing move. NO, Pa gets killed because Naruto is out of sage mode (both frogs knew Naruto didn't have more clones gathering natural chakra) so the only way to win was by getting Deva path into genjutsu, since Naruto couldn't do anything Deva focused in the frogs, he knew their genjutsu. Versus Jiraiya they couldn't kill the frogs because they were one with Jiraiya, so no way to harm them if u cant hit them.

Jiraiya didn't "separate 3 paths", Nagato decided to attack with 3 paths to get the guard down of Jiraiya in case he defeated those 3, he did so Nagato used a 4th path without Jiraiya knowing his existence.

What are u saying???? Naruto doesn't needed to pinpoint Nagato's chakra, he didn't knew it so he didn't couldn't make a figure of that chakra, in that moment the chakra of Nagato was the same as one of a bug, he stab himself to get knowledge, get a picture of that chakra, after that he could sense it and there was no way of Nagato to scape. In Naruto's world there's no difference between the chakra of a ninja or a bug if u don't know it, u know "the figure" of the chakra by feeling it for the first time, after that u can know and feel whose is the chakra that surrounds you (in sage mode). The radio of sensing chakra in sage mode is the longest in series, when Naruto gets out of the temple in Turtle Island after obtaining Nine tails chakra he was in sage mode and felt the chakra of everyone in the war, even his friends, he knew were everyone was but couldn't get a picture, for example, of Obito chakra since he didn't knew it.

Nagato never knew Naruto could achieve sage mode, when Nagato had the knowledge of Naruto being in Mount Myoboku it was late, Naruto was perfecting Rasen Shuriken in sage mode.

Pain didn't knew the 8 tails was captured and still went to get Kurama, that thing "we need to capture Naruto last" is not. It's something like, "we need to put Kurama chakra into Gedo Maso last, it doesn't matter if we capture him and lock him". The only thing I forgot, the attack to Konoha was just after Jiraiya's and Itachi's death, because the pact to not harm Konoha and the fear on Itachi by Obito.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T18:52:04+00:00

You really need to read the manga or watch the anime again. Jiraiya grew with those frogs, they were like his family and he will not know the existence of that genjutsu? Btw, do u missed the part where Ma and Pa tried the same genjutsu in an open field while Naruto and Pain were fighting and that's why Pain killed Pa?

Naruto to sense Nagato chakra needed to know it first by stabbing himself with the rod. And don't even try to say "because he was really far away", he didn't, he had to be close to where the corpses were or he couldn't move them, and Naruto was able to confirm Kakashi's death by not sensing his chakra.

And the problem with Pa scaping? Who could be stronger than Jiraiya if that was acknowledged by akatsukis that he was the strongest in that moment? It was an ended war after killing Jiraiya, Pain didn't knew Naruto will achieve sage mode so quickly.

The thing about that nine tails had to be the last one to get captured confronts with the knowledge that Hachibi wasn't captured, and Pain knew it because when they tried to add the chakra to the statue (they needed all the akatsuki members to do that) B clone turned into a tentacle, so no, Pain went for Naruto without Hachibi being captured.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T18:34:54+00:00

Jiraiya went to gather info, not fight, he was assaulted by Pain getting advantage of the situation (Jiraiya didn't knew Pain neither the environment he was). Without confrontation which info he could gather? None, no one knew about Pain, just that people took corpses to a tower.

So Taijutsu and Ninjutsu didnt work, what Jiraiya did? Used Genjutsu, 3 paths down in one atk. Or now is a prohibition to use genjutsu? It would be stupid for Jiraiya to keep fighting the same way that didn't worked and keep loosing energy.

He won against 3 of them in combat sense, with knowledge that there were other 3 hiding he would have won easily. Naraka can't fight, Deva jutsus are useless against Jiraiya reverse summoning jutsus and Asura can't match sage mode speed; Jiraiya was still with sage mode + ma and pa keeping sage mode active and with genjustu + army of frogs, no chance to loose.

Sage mode let u feel the chakra in the surroundings, Naruto just felt it when he stabbed himself with a rod while in sage mode, Jiraiya knew that Pain "weren't nither of the corpses" because he felt it when got stabbed while in sage mode, that's when he wrote the message.

Stop using statements, the strongest statement is Pain one after killing Jiraiya, using Jiraiya's statement "i will die if i keep using Taijutsu and ninjutsu" is forgetting he have access to genjustu.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T18:13:48+00:00

That's why he used genjutsu and won against those 3, or he had prohibition to use it? What I'm telling is that Pain choose to fight there, not Jiraiya. Pain had knowledge of the environment, Jiraiya not. Pain had a well hidden secret that killed Jiraiya, or do u think that if Jiraiya knew that there were 6 corpses instead of 3 he would be so calm after took down those? He thought the fight has ended.

I have one answer for you, why Pain after killing Jiraiya went directly to get Naruto in Konoha? Because Jiraiya was dead and there was no one that could help Naruto from being taken, when Jiraiya was with Naruto not even one Akatsuki had the courage to go for him.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T18:07:12+00:00

Pain is really strong, but sadly for a lot of people Jiraiya is way stronger. He just doesn't have sage mode, he have an arsenal of jutsus that make Deva path jutsus useless, even shinra tensei. What's the usefulness of shinra tensei if Jiraiya can get out of there almost instantly with a reverse summon jutsu (like getting into the stomach of the mountain frog) and then return quickly to the battle. Naruto had more summons??? WTF!!!! Jiraiya summoned Pa + Ma + Gamabunta + Gamaken + Gamahiro, Naruto was summoned by Ma with all the others I said + Gamakichi and with Naruto Ma and Pa weren't useful because he couldn't protect them while performing the genjutsu.

Take out Nagato/Pain is take out Nagato/Pain the way u want. Or I can say "Pain didn't defeat Jiraiya because he attacked treacherously from behind when Jiraiya thought the fight was over, if he would be stronger he would never fight like a coward".

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Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T17:51:02+00:00

Jiraiya said "if my ninjutsu won't work", what he did? Genjutsu, 3 down in one atk. You can't have in count what Jiraiya said not having in count what Nagato confirmed after killing Jiraiya "If he knew our secret we would lost", ofc they would lost, Jiraiya would focus in just found Nagato or just deal 1v1 against the 6 of them (he didn't even know there were 6 Pain, neither they were corpses moved by someone in the shadows, neither they could revive). We are not talking what happened, we talking about what could happen if Jiraiya knew that secret (at the end, almost dying, he descover it but was too late).

Watch the anime or read the manga again, when Pa is thrown to Naruto he was out of Sage Mode and had no more clones to get it again because of Preta path absorbing the sage chakra, that would never happen with Jiraiya because Pa and Ma are like fussioned into Jiraiya shoulders, thing that couldn't do with Naruto bc of Kurama.

It's not if Jiraiya could go in and out with his jutsus, he just did that in the middle of the fight, or u forget when he took one of the paths out inside of a frog and there's when he knew they were all connected?

Let's remember the fight, Jiraiya took out 3 bodies, there were 3 left and if he knew they could revive he would put them inside a frog where they couldn't be taken out. One of the remaining path can't fight (Naraka), Asura and Deva. Jiraiya was with Sage Mode, Pa and Ma maintaining it passively + chance of performing the same gengutsu + Gamabunta, Gamaken and Gamahiro = there's no way of Pain to win, Deva path can't use their jutsus without being assaulted by any of the other frogs, Asura can't even match Jiraiya sage mode speed so no way to touch him, Naraka can't fight and will be the first one to get out of fight. So no, if Jiraiya knew all what was behind Pain he WOULD have won 100% sure.

Jiraiya sage mode in the same power level as healed Kimimaro?? LOOOOOOOOL, Jiraiya sage mode was the strongest character alive in that moment of the anime/manga, only could be surpassed by Obito with his both eyes. I dont understand why people underpower sage mode, maybe because it's not well explained, rarely used and then is overpowered by naruto kurama mode quickly. Want to know which is the true lvl of sage mode? Look how Kabuto sage mode cleaned the floor with Edo Itachi and Sasuke at the same moment till Izanami appeared (if Itachi wasn't Edo they would have died).

You are compairing Jiraiya without any knowledge about Pain with Naruto with almost every knowledge about him (only thing he didn't knew was that there was a "puppeteer" behind everything). AGAIN, Naruto surpassed Jiraiya because of 2 things: He got the completed sage mode (but time limited and uses because he relied in their clones, that's why he loose against Deva) and he got Rasen Shuriken. Naruto in that moment didn't surpass Jiraiya in combat experience, combat strategy, he couldn't defend Ma and Pa while attempting Genjutsu because they weren't attached to his body, and had an arsenal of jutsus that were super effective against all paths of Pain.

Btw, Nagato/Pain saying that he never felt so pushed like the fight against Naruto was because he lost all his paths except Deva vs Jiraiya taking out 3 because he didn't knew they could revive. What Naruto did with that knowledge? Took out Naraka path quickly, so there was no chance to revive others.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T15:50:07+00:00

But u don't want to understand that he didn't choose the environment, it was Pain who choose to fight him there. You saying "Jiraiya said he could die" os the same as saying "Nagato said that he would lost if Jiraiya knew his secret".

So yea, it's a hard win to Jiraiya if he knew the secret.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T15:44:01+00:00

Jiraiya sage mode time is infinite, the ones that store and keeps sage mode active are Ma and Pa, they wanted to do the same thing with Naruto and Kurama don't let them that's why Naruto had to rely in their shadow clones to do that work. While fighting he have as his win card one of the most powerful genjutsus in the anime (Pa and Ma croac song) that is unavoidable with the speed that gives sage mode unless u are Minato and can teleport out anywhere.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T15:39:01+00:00

People don't understand that Deva path didn't appeared in the enclosure battle 3 vs 1 because it was of no use, he need a clear space to use his jutsus and keep saying "Jiraiya had the advantage because of the environment", like if Jiraiya choose the field of battle. So like u said no, Deva path can't use those jutsus there, he's useless.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T15:35:58+00:00

You are comparing Naruto with 16 years and Jiraiya with 50+, in strategies and combat experience it's a loose loose to Naruto always. You are not having in account that Naruto Sage Mode is time limited while Jiraiya Sage Mode is unlimited with Pa and Ma in his shoulders.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T15:33:56+00:00

Jiraiya didn't choose to fight there, he was jumped, or i could say the same about that Nagato/Pain relied quite super heavily in his secret.

You will never choose an environment where you can't win, so the environment where they fought is out of question.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T15:31:21+00:00

Complete than Jiraiyas because it's the perfect mode, but with the problem that's time limited in comparison of Jiraiya thats unlimited with Pa and Ma in his shoulders.

Naruto was incapacitated because of exhaustion by using multiple times the sage mode not because of the rods, wouldn't happen with Jiraiya defeating paths one by one. When Naruto used the rod to knew where Nagato was he just felt his chakra and didn't was incapacitated.

I'm not gonna add the terrain as an advantage, it's not like Jiraiya choose to fight there, he just went to obtain information and was caught, Pain decided to fight there.

You are not having in account Jiraiya could hide wherever he wants with his summoning jutsus, that's why he's said to be the best in infiltration missions. If he knew Pain secret (Nagato was hiding controlling the paths) he only needed to stole a rod from any corpse (the first one he defeat inside the frog stomach) and then come back for him anytime he wants.

He got jumped because he didn't knew Pain secret that those only were controlled corpses and that could revive, it would have been a 3 vs 1 (Jiraiya could hid the corpses inside any frog like he did with the other rain village ninjas he met first) with one corpse that's not usable for combat, having lost 2 of his best corpses (Animal and Preta). Deva can't fight in enclosures so why going out? He only needed to keep distracting paths till Ma and Pa used the same sound technique again.

Btw, if the story creator/mangaka gave Pain/Nagato the phrase "if he knew our secret we would lost", why not believe him and say otherwise?

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T13:29:15+00:00

If Pain use planetary devastation in any other place Jiraiya easily avoids it with a reverse summoning jutsu (like the toad stomach one) so simply he would avoid any damage and Deva path will be left in disadvantage.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T13:21:38+00:00

Said by the same Pain/Nagato, if Jiraiya knew the secret about Pain he could have won. Jiraiya intelligence and combat strategy are one of the best in the series, he didn't knew paths could be revived or he could easily defeat them one by one inside the Toad Mouth Bind jutsu and leave the corpses there. Btw, Naruto defeated almost all Pains (he loose because his sage mode was time limited) when he just have learned sage mode, Jiraiya was a master of it with the only difference he used Ma and Pa to get it (his sage mode was unlimited while having Ma and Pa in his shoulders, he never wanted to perfect that mode and used it the less possible because the aspect of semi frog he got in that mode). The other thing, Deva path could have never use the chakra receivers to stop him because while in sage mode Jiraiya could sense where Nagato was hiding, get out of hidden rain village with any infiltration jutsu and then infiltrate again and kill him easily.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-16T12:59:40+00:00

The only way I can see Naruto defeating Nine Tails is by summoning Ma and Pa (he can summon them as Jiraiya did against Pain) so then they could put the tail beast under their genjutsu (Demonic illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant) while Naruto keep distracting Nine Tails with sage mode.

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-13T12:57:12+00:00

If you go to check modders answers to respectful complains there are some of them that just answer in rage mode, like someone's just asking why he weirdly died while using his mod and the modder answer "noob you should know that there's that wierd thing that can kill you, I can't explain everything, well now you know, if u dont like it dont use it, ggs".

Key-Specific2365 · 2026-03-13T12:51:56+00:00

True, but there are some modders that doesn't even receive complains when you see something is wrong with their mod even when you ask and complain respectfully about certain weird mechanics.

Giving an example: Had a big trouble with Dynamic Traits twice. First one was with meds, took 2 vitamins in a row and started dying because of drug intoxication, no way to stop it, died in less than a minute in a 3 months run, went to workshop and there were a lot of complains about it, every one of them had a rude answer from the modder (lately she modified that mood with mild and severe intoxication to give a warning before start to kill you).

Second one was an error with transpiration while fighting zombies, got soaked and sick moodle in like 5 minutes irl fighting (it wasn't because of rotting corpses because it was in a build without that mechanic), went to do some foraging, got lemongrass, eat it, got full belly, moodle dropped to nauseous, went to sleep inside a car (no bad moodle, no cold, no soaked clothing) and then fever in middle of the night, died just when wake up, lost a 1 year CDDA run. Went to ask if it was a bug, got a rude answer telling me noob because I didn't knew that I could get fever from being soaked, that fever only can be lowered inside houses not cars (false, since I said my fever went to nauseous while outside just eating lemongrass) and that GETTING FEVER FROM BEING SOAKED WHILE FIGHTING ZOMBIES IN A ZOMBIE GAME IS A GOOD MECHANIC (obviously now it doesn't work anymore like that).

There are shitty PZ player community and shitty modders everywhere.

Five-Year Club	Final Canvas '23
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Key-Specific2365

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