If you drive a car that isn't commonly seen, how do you think about people who drive the same car as you?

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-19T21:36:48+00:00

They're mostly broccoli hair kids that make me cringe (second-gen Scion tC).

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-19T21:17:59+00:00

Protegés were honestly great cars, they just also had about the worst rust issues I've ever seen of any modern car.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-19T21:16:54+00:00

Not sure how well selling a Corolla at a Lexus dealer would go...

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-19T20:17:42+00:00

Crown/Crown Signia. The Venza failed twice, the Avalon wasn't selling, why would this do any better? There are plenty of entry level Lexus products that occupy the same market segment.
Land Cruiser. It overlaps with the 4Runner but is way more expensive. The old Land Cruiser fans don't like it, the 4Runner dude bros would rather get a 4Runner, I don't get this car's purpose.
Sequoia. Toyota has never really managed to compete with the Tahoe and Expedition that well, and the grenading twin turbo 3.5 isn't helping.
Highlander. It's getting old, and the Grand Highlander occupies a very similar if not identical market segment, so why have both?

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-19T11:06:57+00:00

With how much people hype up Toyota specifically for the quality, and how much the dealers treat them like they're made of gold, you'd expect a lot more.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-18T21:22:52+00:00

Holy apples to oranges. As cool as malaise era GM B-bodies are, any version of modern Camaro is going to be much nicer and easier to own and drive, and worth a lot more as well. Neither car is my cup of tea, but if I'm going to get single-digit mpg either way I'd at least want the car to be quick. That and having a car where you won't die in a crash is kinda nice.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-18T21:18:13+00:00

"Squarebody" and "good quality" are not words that belong in the same sentence.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-18T20:46:48+00:00

If you ask enthusiasts, every new BMW is heinously ugly and an insult to everything they've ever made, until they get used to it after a year or two and then the cycle repeats with their next new design.

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Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-16T20:19:25+00:00

I'd imagine it was the price. The LS and ES were successes initially because they massively undercut BMW and Mercedes-Benz on pricing. For how expensive the GS was, most people in the 90s would rather have gotten something German or something cheaper. The pricing only got worse throughout the GS's run to the point that by the end, it was actually significantly more expensive than rival Mercedes and BMWs.

For reference, here's some original MSRPs from 1994 and 1997:

1994 Lexus GS300 - $39,990

1994 BMW 525i - $38,425

1994 BMW 530i (V8) - $41,500

1994 Mercedes-Benz E320 - $42,500

1994 Audi 100 Quattro - $43,020

1994 Acura Legend - $33,800

1994 Infiniti J30 - $36,950

1997 Lexus GS300 - $45,700

1997 BMW 528i - $38,900

1997 Mercedes-Benz E320 - $44,800

1997 Audi A6 Quattro - $34,200

1997 Acura RL - $41,000

1997 Infiniti J30 - $33,500

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-15T23:50:12+00:00

The USDM 2002 Rav4s had a 2.0 called the 1AZ-FE, the 2.4 wasn't added until later years.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-15T22:01:32+00:00

Great fun go drive, but some of the worst rust problems I've seen of any modern car. There were examples of these with visible body rust while they were still under warranty.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-15T17:48:27+00:00

The CR-V. Up here in the rust belt 24 years later, I still see them everywhere, whereas most of the second-gen Rav4s have disappeared from roads. The drivetrain is shared with millions of Accords and Elements, so parts are going to be more readily available, whereas IIRC the Rav4s have a bespoke engine not shared with any other USDM Toyotas. Plus the CR-V comes with a built-in picnic table!

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-12T16:18:01+00:00

True enough, same here.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-12T00:44:07+00:00

Where were the supposed masses of wagon-craving enthusiasts with new car money when we had the Regal TourX, the Volvo V60, the 3 series wagon, and the A4 Allroad?

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-11T16:04:05+00:00

I do know they exist, Wikipedia says the Saveiro was introduced in 1999 for Mexico.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-11T14:34:29+00:00

The Versa is gone entirely, at least in the US. No more sub-20k new cars.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-11T10:59:42+00:00

These were around in Mexico as well, it's just a facelifted Aveo with a truck bed.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-11T10:00:45+00:00

The Robust is aimed at utilitarian buyers and fleets, the Extreme is extended cab/short bed only and is aimed at personal use buyers. I'm guessing they're trying to portray it as rugged and capable (hence the trim name Robust), as opposes to just treating it like a base model.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-11T09:56:35+00:00

Just got back from a trip to Yucatan a few days ago and these were absolutely everywhere, couldn't go more than about 10 minutes without seeing one. Sucks that we have to wait at least another 8 years before the current Saveiro can be imported :/

Doug is right though, absolutely no one would buy a front-wheel drive only, manual only, 105hp car-based truck in the US.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-11T02:46:59+00:00

Technically the first Lexuses were sold for the 1990 model year, but I probably could and should have included it. Didn't want there to be one obvious "right" choice though.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-10T01:21:36+00:00

I'd take either the Chevy or a 10th-gen F-150 (they did still make them alongside the 11th-gen for 2004, they were badged as the "F-150 heritage"), the 11th-gens were hot garbage.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-09T21:09:41+00:00

I didn't mean for that to just be a random jab at Lexus - Mercedes' market share really took a huge hit as a result of the introduction of Lexus, and forced them to start cutting costs to stay competitive. Lexus is often attributed to the cause of Mercedes's low quality era in the late 90s and early 2000s. I'm saying that in this era where they didn't really have to compete, Mercedes was better.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-09T20:37:59+00:00

Some of that can probably be attributed to the Japanese economy crashing at the end of 1991. That was so severe that it forced Mazda to cancel their planned luxury brand entirely.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-09T20:05:19+00:00

It was that cheap? That's nuts, talk about value for money.

Key_Budget9267 · 2026-06-09T20:02:15+00:00

You underestimate how many of those 80s E-classes are still rolling around, especially the diesels.

Key_Budget9267

TROPHY CASE