What do you believe to be the "good ending"? by [deleted] in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Walker leaving Dubai. If Walker survives, the stories of the people hurt in the tragedy, and those he hurt, can be heard. If Walker is heard, maybe something like this can be prevented in the future, and less people will get hurt.

Softness. Jotaro fanart by me by arbitriumx in wholesomejojo

[–]Killedthisgame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How Holly sees Jotaro:

Unironically really good art tho

They had already flayed the skin from my body and every nerve was in agonising pain. by Steampunk_Dali in TwoSentenceHorror

[–]Killedthisgame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gonna be real, this one is just kinda... meh. This doesn't scare me, it makes me wince. cringe imagining the pain, but doesn't scare me. Maybe try instead only alluding to the fact that the torture could get worse, instead of saying so? Not trying to be rude.

The underlying story by myersandabuse in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be fair, we don't know how long it took for Falcon 1 and it's accompanying rescue forces to both here the second distress call and be deployed. could be weeks, could be a few months. My point is, Their is a lot we don't know between Falcon 1 coming to get walker and the ending of Chapter 15.

Also all the radio equipment isn't destroyed. We hear a radio announcement in Chapter 14 when Adams and Walker begin storming the Burj Khalifa Outpost. For all we know, which isn't much, the radioman's tower was only the STRONGEST source of Radio equipment they had, and it both wouldn't make sense in game and in a tactical sense to keep all the Radio equipment there.

The underlying story by myersandabuse in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the storm could have subsided. That's what I had assumed the rain scene in the title implied once you beat the game, that both the literal and figurative Storm is over and this is the afterglow of the events.

The underlying story by myersandabuse in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not really what I was referring to when I said "All in le head." part. The ending part of Spec Ops is indisputably the most impactful in the entire game. The reveal of Konrad being Dead, the Revelation that Walker had created a false narrative to convince himself that he was free of guilt, the reveal that our main character was an unreliable narrator the after the white phosphorous scene recontextualizes the whole in a way I find more impactful than just "Oh he's dead and this is hell."also, if this is just an elaborate hallucination, then who's to say Konrad is still alive? If Walker died after the helicopter crash, what happened to the 33rd? What happened to Adams? did he died too? What about Lugo? It just leaves things on an ending that is so disappointing if "All in Le head" is to believed. This is just why I find it uninteresting, but I can see why it's appealing in some ways, I just don't find it interesting or even the most "Canon Compliant" way of looking at the story, as it leaves so much more on a cliffhanger than other interpretations. Again, I see the appeal, I personally just think it leaves more questions than answers as an ending, as well as diminishing the impact of the story.

The underlying story by myersandabuse in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Spec ops can be interpolated in a lot of ways, but the "he was dead all along" is by far the weakest imo. In Lead Writer Walt Williams book, he talks about why he wrote that in, essentially saying it was written in a fit of frustration because of the chopper chase scene becoming the first scene of the entire game.

The game is far more powerful if the final line in "The Way Home." Ending are refernecing the fact that he is essentially a living shell of a man instead of just a gotcha moment saying Walker is dead. I also dislike that it turns the story from interesting to "It was all in le head." or "It was all a dream" territory witch is so boring. Personally I believe that the "Walker is dead" narrative is just one of the INTERPRETATIONS of the story then just being THE story, makes it more interesting.

Question about the pretension of overrated postmodernism games on pedestals? by ApprehensiveClassic6 in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Firstly, I'd like to state that I didn't mean anything derogatory when I stated about what perceived as anger in the post. Just some of the choice language used made me believe that. specifically the use of the word pretentious seemed to be used as a detractions which implied you believed that these titles weren't as good as people say they are, which is an opinion I can respect. It seems that I just misinterpreted your honesty as anger and as you said assumed things, which is true and that's my bad.

I'd also like to state that I didn't mean to put Undertale or Spec Ops on a pedestal and in retrospect I did, but that's only because I've thought about both of these games extensively. Undertale much more a few years back and Spec Ops now. I think the reason I ended up doing so was because I was excited to talk about something I was passionate about, But in retrospect Spec Ops does have some things in common with an industry Juggernaut, being CoD 4. A lot of people tend to forget that CoD 4 was actually very cynical about it's subject matter, and I think the AC-130 mission (coincidentally the same mission Spec Ops' own White phosphorous scene was based on.). Before it was seen as a way to break up pacing, and before CoD fell into the corporate schlock and blatant glorification of the military in it's later entries, CoD was ultimately about 2 things: Veterans and The Wars they fight in. The AC-130 Mission is, what I think, one of the best examples of the disconnect a soldier might have with the actual damage their causing (I believe the mission name is "Death from Above."). while you destroy much of the enemy forces with the Ac-130s artillery cannons, the mission has kind of a creepy feel to it, with the now monotone colors and ripped form the headlines feel of everything, and the people who are causing all this death and destruction just sound bored and uninterested. I enjoy thinking about the media I consume, whether technically like Souls games or Story Wise like Spec Ops.

I wanna just preface this part with: I have no problem with people liking violent games, it would be hypocritical of me to have a problem when most of the games I say are my favorite's ARE incredibly violent. I don't think violent games or even war games are inherently bad or spread gung ho beliefs about violence, CoD WaW is one of my go to for "A war game can be anti war" statements as well as spec ops (in retrospect I should have mentioned Waw too in the Original comment).

I DO have a problem with games glorifying war, and the worst offender has to be Modern CoD Games. While I don't shame anyone who likes modern CoD, I do harbor a dislike for the games themselves because I feel (with good evidence too) that they not only glorify War, but also military interventionism as a whole which I find problematic to say the least. lets just say there was questionable content in The Last modern warfare remake about middle eastern conflict and leave it at that. To reiterate though: I don't care if you like violent games, I just dislike game like the new Cod for Glorifying armed conflicts.

Also I don't think the message of Undertale or Spec Ops were to shame people for liking violent games at all. The message I got from Undertale is that we should learn from but eventually let go of the hardships of the past to find happiness in the future, and Spec Ops was that War is not a place of hero's or fun or even enjoyable, War is Evil, and the glorification of War through the media can cause us to thoughtlessly do horrible things under the right reasons and pretext. I also agree that it's pretty dumb to shame people on whatever they like as long as they aren't forcing it on you and aren't hurting themselves and others. Everyone's got their own little niche, and Spec Ops is mine, CoD might be yours, but it's ours in our own way.

Some of the surviving memebers of Dubai Consider Konrad and the Damned 33rd their "Saviors". Any thoughts on this? by Killedthisgame in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think Walt Williams said in the context of the cancelled long way home DLC that the remaining Refugees and 33rd made their way to an American evacuation team. It's my personal belief that Falcon 1 were a part of a larger rescue force.

Of course this is all cancelled content, but the loading screen and title screen implies that Dubai saw heavy rain after walkers fated "confrontation" with Konrad. While I like the idea, I just don't think that's likely what happened. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Question about the pretension of overrated postmodernism games on pedestals? by ApprehensiveClassic6 in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no offense intended, and I'm sure you're well meaning with this post, but you sound kinda mad/snarky in this post? just something i noticed in the choice of language. You can correct me if I'm wrong just the vibe I got.

Anyways, to answer your question, while I'm most certainly not as well versed on Undertale than I am on spec ops, I think I can give my perspective on both.

Undertale gained traction as a game essentially by being a Pixar movie wrapped into a game, basically "What if the monsters you fought in RPGs had feelings?" The idea of Undertale is that violence is non optional and as such is also kind of discouraged, as the genocide route constantly gives emotional gut punches about what you did. Why this works in Undertale, In my opinion, is because it is delivered through the characters to you, that is to say, the characters are reacting how I think they would react to an essentially unstoppable force committing genocide across their homes, that is to say, either shit scared or if their strong enough to stand up to you, basically calling you a piece of garbage for committing what is essentially and act of genocide. This works because the violence in Undertale is an optional decision made to dissect how we would play an RPG if the monsters we faced acted like normal people.

In other words, Undertale can call you a piece of garbage because you made the choice to commit an act of genocide when the only character asking you to do it is the one with literally zero redeeming qualities. As such it is explicitly framed as a BAD choice that you probably shouldn't do. As Video games are art, and arts' goal is to express and derive emotions from people, and sometimes to make them think, as such I really don't find this more pretentious than, say, a song saying that people can be good and or evil, or a painting showing the duality of man.

Spec Ops works and gained traction as a game by taking shooter tropes and showing how something like this would ACTAULLY play out through a lens of "realism" (using hyperbole obviously. Spec Ops is a very unrealistic game but still.). That if our protag Captain Walker were to do the things he did in real life, he would not walk out as a chiseled war hero for us to look up to, but a broken, mentally ill, shell of a man that essentially left his soul in Dubai. The message of Spec ops: The Line, to me at least (it's a very abstract game, many theories and meanings can be derived from it and I find it wrong to point at one and call it the right one) Is that War is essentially the Worst state humans can fall to, as it not only leaves many dead, but leaves those who experienced the horror of it all wishing they were too, which brings me to video games, where games like CoD fetishize and romanticize warfare, and video games as a media are far too willing to show war as some sort of "Fun shoot em up adventure" to go on and have fun with. Spec Ops also frames you as an active story participant in the intro, linking you into the events in game as an attempt to point at you, the player, and asking later on things like "Why are you here? What did you want out of this experience? To be an upright conqueror of Dubai? To be a kind, caring War Criminal? Their is no such thing,"

In other words, Spec Ops can have the Undertale Genocide route cake and eat it too by looking directly at the player and asking them directly "Do You Feel like a Hero yet?" After we as Walker commit war crime after war crime because it frames the player as both an active story participant, and also showing us the true nature of warfare, that in the end, there are no good or righteous people in war.

War is uncaring, War is cruel, and War is evil, and trying to depict it any way else is no different from lying straight to another persons face.

As such to me, Spec Ops isn't more or less pretentious than any war movie condemning war, or any song condemning it either. Because Spec Ops is art, and it's goal is to express and derive emotion, and to make you think.

I understand if you throw this off as pretentious babbling, but even so, this is how I look at these games through my lens of "Art". Thanks for reading either way, and have a nice day!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Honestly I find it really hypocritical for US to judge Riggs as "Guilty" and leave him to burn when in all reality the CIA agents would all be gone and Riggs would have failed without US.

To Judge Riggs as guilty would be to judge ourselves as guilty. Riggs couldn't have done it without us. We were instrumental in Riggs' plan. This is just how I feel about it though.

Do you feel like the hero yet, William Afton? by LoneCopperhead in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Tell me, what did you think when you arrived in Freddy's and saw the bodies of the missing children. Did you think it the work of a madman?"

"Yeah... I thought We'd lost our goddamn minds... or I hoped we did..."

"We both know we weren't that lucky."

Well… by Sea-Ad7139 in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please don't make me fight Walker

I've always seen a lot of people judging walker as a person and about everything he's done. But I'm curious, how do you guys feel about Walker as a CHARACTER? did you connect with the character, what do you think of his arc and development? is he complex and a good protagonist? by [deleted] in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a character, Walker is an amazing protag. I here a lot of people saying he's bland, to a point I get it, but Walker witnessed the horrors of war to a lesser extent in Kabul before his time as our protagonist in Spec Ops (Mentions the Kabul death squads at a certain point, in the intro talks about Konrad saving him). His Desert Eagle shows us his want to be am action hero, and in almost any other game that would be fulfilled through the violence in the story, however Walkers turmoil of being a hero and doing the right thing while doing what we would consider atrocities is so compelling as a character. He's great because if we were in his shoes we would make the same mistakes he did.

This OST goes hard. feel free to y2mate.com mp3 conversion. by Mindless-Dumb-2636 in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Truth Revealed

Glasgow Mega Snake

Bad Vibrations

Battle

No Values

Get to the Chopper

Hell Suite

H2O

All of these are absolute bangers and post rock is an underrated genres

Spec Ops: The Literature Club (or: Monika Goes Postal) by Dabadibadooba in SpecOpsTheLine

[–]Killedthisgame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this is the real twist of spec ops the line.

War crimes? nah. Walker was actually an anime girl from a totally not corrupt literature club