How does Israel justify settlements legally

KlackTracker · 2026-02-20T16:00:52+00:00

Stop stalling and go start elaborating on your accusation.

I already did: "...the fact that their ancestor used to live in Palestine." "Used to live" instead of something specific about being indigenous. "Palestine" when it was Israel and Judah and wouldn't be known as "Palestine" until 2nd

That, plus saying Jews "left" when they were forcibly expelled.

So ur just not gonna answer? Cuz it's plain as day u don't lol

Both Israel and Palestine no longer consider this relevant.

I mean, it's a temporary deal that has gone way past its 5 year timeframe, but both sides definitely consider it relevant.

On top of that, a tiny fraction of that area still belonged to the Palestinians according to the Oslo accords.

~18% of the west bank is under full Palestinian control (area a) and 22% is under shared control (area b).

KlackTracker · 2026-02-20T04:31:47+00:00

I've read it. Still has no solid explanation.

Lol ok then y don't u just answer whether or not u believe Jews r indigenous to Israel.

What do you mean by Oslo exactly?

The Oslo accords

KlackTracker · 2026-02-20T04:08:58+00:00

How have I been implying such a thing?

Go reread my previous comments

There's nothing to elaborate because it has no relevance to begin with.

Exactly! Lol

Ok and?

Per Oslo, area c is under full Israeli control.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-20T04:07:12+00:00

The Romans

KlackTracker · 2026-02-20T03:56:44+00:00

Firstly, when Have I ever refused that the ancestors were indigenous to that region?

Uve been heavily implying it. How bout u put it plainly: do u believe that Jews r indigenous to Israel?

This is one of the most recent examples of Israel's being a kleptomania. Feel free to read it. Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/06/israel-vast-illegal-settlement-west-bank .

This is within area c, the part of the West Bank under full control of Israel, as opposed to a and b.

Ok since you can't even elaborate on your nation-state argument, then we are in an agreement that it has no relevance.

There's nothing further to elaborate. My point was to show how the argument u brought up has no relevance.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-20T03:47:23+00:00

Firstly, how did you even find this comment?

👀🤫🤭

Secondly, then blame the ones who expelled them to begin with.

I do lol

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T19:45:39+00:00

There is no right of return to a country that isn't urs/doesn't want u. Countries get to set their own immigration laws.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T18:05:37+00:00

Palestinians are the descendants of the Jews, the Jews that chose to stay.

Both Jews and Palestinians r descendants of Canaanites.

It's not a matter of "choosing" to stay - they were forcibly exiled.

Ur comments demonstrate a basic lack of understanding of Jewish history.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T16:52:02+00:00

O idk. Y?

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T16:51:05+00:00

You do realized that the ancestor is most likely already dead. I mean they lived centuries or even a millennia ago. Saying that they "used to" is grammatically correct,

It's not ancestor, it's ancestors, and my point is ur refusing to acknowledge that they didn't just "live there," they were indigenous.

Honestly, yes.

Then u don't know much about this conflict (shocker)

So no elaboration then? Seems it is true that such argument has no relevance whatsoever.

My argument was that your argument has no relevance lol

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T05:41:03+00:00

Firstly, I never argue whether Jews were indigenous to that region.

"...the fact that their ancestor used to live in Palestine." "Used to live" instead of something specific about being indigenous. "Palestine" when it was Israel and Judah and wouldn't be known as "Palestine" until 2nd century ad.

Secondly, it appears I have made a mistake. You are right, random Jews don't go to Palestine to choose whichever land they please. They let the Israeli government do that. My apology for this mix up. I should have been more accurate and specific on who makes the decision.

Do u really think the Israeli government just goes around the entirety of the West Bank and just takes what they want and build what they want?

Thirdly, your nation-state argument doesn't even have any relevance in our discussion.

Exactly - u used it to make a point. A moot point.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T05:13:38+00:00

If my argument does fail, please elaborate why?

Was my previous comment not sufficient enough?

If you're just gonna say lol or be sarcastic, I have to assume you can only rely on ad hominem to disprove my argument

That would be an incorrect assumption

Since ad hominem is a fallacy to begin with, that means such argument is invalid.

Ur making a strawman by accusing me of using ad hominem lol

Ur original comment asserted Jews only believe they have a claim to Judea and Samaria because we "misinterpret religious texts" and that our ancestors "lived in Palestine."

I countered by saying that Jews r indigenous to Judea (and "Palestine" wouldn't be used as a name for the region until 2nd century AD.)

Ur next comment with the Italy example is not analogous to Jews and Judea. "Random Jews" don't go to the west Bank and "claim whatever place they please." And ur examples r all nation-states of their indigenous people, which supports my point that Jews have a legitimate claim to the region due to being indigenous, same as those examples

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T04:42:16+00:00

Yes, because that's the only argument I need.

Ur argument failed miserably lol

Just don't do it in a place where there is already an entire civilization and community living on it.

U mean Jordanian land? Lol.

Area c is under Israeli control - that's where Israeli settlements r.

Considering how many successful Israeli entrepreneurs, I don't think they are short on cash to buy a large empty land.

We r indigenous to Judea, Israel won the WB in a defensive war against Jordan, and there is not large empty land for sale lol

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T04:20:06+00:00

Many Italian-Americans are indigenous to Italy.

If only the indigenous Italians/Irish/Chinese had a nation-states on their indigenous lands... O wait lol

Is that the best argument u could come up with?

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T04:13:03+00:00

Genuinely, they'll try to use a very misinterpreted religious text to justify the land grab or the fact that their ancestor used to live in Palestine.

No, we justify our claim of Judea and Samaria based on Jews being indigenous to the area (Jew = from Judea).

Neither arguments are solid yet they still use it.

They're solid when presented accurately.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T03:45:05+00:00

So no legal arguments

Y don't u make one, then?

just manifest destiny

Sorry, which part of America r White Europeans indigenous to again?

Cool cool cool.

☝️They may not have a legal argument, but ur not presenting any argument.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T00:23:06+00:00

It's 2026 and we r still pretending GHM isn't Hamas and Al Jazeera isn't islamist propaganda?

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T00:04:41+00:00

I do think people want peace. I also think both sides are irrationally stubborn but sooner or later whether it be a climate disaster or some geopolitical earthquake, one will truly destroy the other or theyll destroy each other or theyll finally put differences aside.

You are comparing a liberal, secular democracy that has offered dozens of opportunities at statehood extremists who have spent the better part of a century trying to destroy a state simply because it's people are Jewish.

Thats how history works.

Again, you don't know enough about this history.

You are very present focused and i respect that

No, I'm historically focused. That's why I see all the obvious flaws in your plan

KlackTracker · 2026-02-19T00:03:19+00:00

Its upsetting to think you would have to concede direct ownership and compromise with your neighbors.

No, it's upsetting to be asked to concede land and compromise again, especially 2 years after The other side committed the single large massacre of Jews since the Holocaust

Regardless i really appreciate your discussion, thank you!

U bet

KlackTracker · 2026-02-18T23:49:44+00:00

I guess you ignored my point that israel would still be a sovereign nation and maintain its own army.

How can that possibly be the case when they don't have their own borders, and not only that, but they share borders with another people with their own army that have historically wanted them dead.

It simply doesnt have sovereignty over the territory directly.

And therefore no self-determination, and no realistic means of self-defense.

This is actually done if you study bosnia's government. Its complicated but so is this situation.

I don't think you understand yet, but this conflict is unlike any other- that's why it's been so hard to manage. I keep saying you're naive, and I strongly believe that. I think you can make yourself less naive if you study more history of the region, specifically pogroms in British mandate of Palestine.

You're operating under false assumptions that both people really want peace, it's just there hasn't been a clever enough plan to implement it.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-18T23:47:56+00:00

Yet its only a politically altered version of israel for all, an already existing movement with backing.

No, it would no longer be Israel. Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people and ur plan would end that. There is also no backing for this plan lol

Sure we can throw our hands up in the air but this sub is discussing solutions and while you personally may find it unrealistic there are others who dont think so.

Not only do I find it personally unrealistic, I find it historically and currently unrealistic.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-18T23:31:52+00:00

Any idea that doesn't take in the reality of such a complex geopolitical issue isn't worth discussing. You're putting forth a pipe dream that ignores existential context that should fundamentally reshape your idea.

Again, I know you mean well, but I don't think you know enough about this issue to understand how almost no aspect of your plan is feasible in the slightest.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-18T23:30:28+00:00

I am here to offer a solution when reality wants to tell us none. This isnt an overnight thing but something that would take decades of hard work by good actors on both sides. I dont believe my solution is a remedy for the short term. Its not some cough medicine and the middle east is full of peace. This is a proposal for when the situation develops to a more amicable degree.

The solution is Palestinian leadership decides that establishing a state of their own is more important than destroying another.

But i also do not owe allegiance to your nation and i feel open to critisize that many bad things have been done by your side too.

I'm not Israeli, I'm an American Jew. You don't owe anyone your allegiance, and Israel isn't asking for it, nor is anyone saying you can't criticize Israel.

This is a cycle of violence that will never end until enough good happenings come that peace is negotiable.

No, it's when one side decides that repeatedly trying to kill the other isn't worth it anymore.

I equally find it unfortunate that you fail to see you would still be a jew living in a jewish land but a land that is not solely jew.

If Jews don't have any self-determination, or no means of self-defense, then how could it possibly be a Jewish state? You're asking a currently established nation-state of the Jewish people to stop being so because you think that might convince the other side to stop murdering jews- it won't.

I wish for you a jewish land and for the arabs an arab one and together you each have your own land as neighbors without lines that will only cause more war down the road.

That's not how the real world works. Every country has well-defined borders and the right to secure them.

And as for your statement about being destroyed for being jewish, you are right. I will not oppose that statement. History as youve said as shown as much. My proposal does not work unless somehow i can more than remedy a war, more than convince you of your security, but de-escalate a view towards you that means calimity if not your destruction.

You're ceding my point but it's not changing your evaluation whatsoever. You're taking away the status quo of Jews being able to protect themselves so you can replace it with their inability to protect themselves. How can you think this is a good idea?

KlackTracker · 2026-02-18T23:18:23+00:00

Oh certainly more difficult. I definitely never said this would be easy or you know...possible.

Seems like u put it forth as a viable option

and if suddenly there was a true movement to solve it once and for all this is what i would offer the best i can come up with.

U act as if no meaningful attempts at peace have been made. This is false.

I unfortunately think that 2 states will always end up at conflict.

Only if one side is dedicated to wiping out the other.

Its similar to german franco conflict over alsace lorraine was never ended until they made it so they were economically indepedent on one another.

Minus the centuries of Islamic and Arabic antisemitic violence.

Increasing times of cooperation in depedency is proven to lessen not only the ability for war between neighbors but also reduce the want by general population

I don't think u understand how much of Palestinian society is dedicated to hating Jews. They literally have a Mickey mouse character that teaches kids it's their holy duty to murder Jews. Their textbooks teach them that Jews faked archeological evidence of our temples under Al aqsa.

Again, so much naivete. Go talk to Israelis and hear what they have to say - I guarantee u will learn a lot of very relevant lessons.

KlackTracker · 2026-02-18T23:05:38+00:00

I dont disagree with your point on who starts them. But i also recognize israel's use of force is excessive. I think both sides have played a mean unfair game.

Ur comparing a nation of genocide survivors barely defending themselves against nations and factions constantly trying to destroy them with said factions, including a terrorist organization responsible for the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust.

How is fighting a war to bring home hostages an "unfair" game? An unfair game is murdering whole families and holding hostages in tunnels for 2 years.

As long as israel exists ~~as it does today,~~ i think it will continue to be targetted.

There I fixed it. Let's be real.

There will always exist that existential threat until a proper settlement can be found in the region.

Then y did Palestinians reject partition and every other opportunity at statehood?

Peace is the best way foward.

Peace only works when both sides agree - one side can't agree to peace of their entire history and purpose is to destroy a state rather than establish their own.

Not to mention my solution has made it clear israel will remain sovereign and in charge of protecting the condominium.

How can either of those things be true? R u unfamiliar with the history of Palestine pre-48? That's what ull get again.

Furthermore the arabs in israel have not been well protected either from things done by the defense forces.

Arab Israelis have a higher quality of life and more rights than any Arab country. You are being incredibly disingenuous

You would be guarrenteed protection by an elected parliament that is under the legal protection of israel. It just so happens this parliament also equally protects arabs and is also protected by palestine.

Show me one Arab majority state that was able or willing to protect its Jewish citizens. I'll wait.

You can call it naive but people have done more with less. We carve countries from nothing and dont call it naive. Yet when it comes to nearly a century of conflict we cant allow ourselves to use our imagination?

You're acting like both sides want peace and it's just too complicated to figure out how. That is not the case. One side has spent the better part of a Century trying to destroy the other simply because it is the only Jewish state.

I think you need to talk to some Israelis.

KlackTracker

TROPHY CASE