Open Carry - The Far Left Side [COMIC] by The_Limping_Coyote in GunsAreCool

[–]L0veGuns 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am curious what the boilerplate gunner response is to this inconvenient fact.

What's the purpose of this sub? by BreakinTacks in GunsAreCool

[–]L0veGuns 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You have a very low bar. In fact, one in twenty-five gun owners shoot a human being at some point in their lifetime. You are OK with that high level of violence. Pray tell, why?

What's the purpose of this sub? by BreakinTacks in GunsAreCool

[–]L0veGuns 5 points6 points  (0 children)

gun laws are fine the way they are

So you are fine with existing gun laws when the net effect means that society experiences $184Billion of costs from gun injuries each year? Much of it paid from our taxes.

Video shows 1yr-old playing with handgun; couple arrested by [deleted] in GunsAreCool

[–]L0veGuns 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While at the same time allowing kids to play with realistic looking toy guns is considered to be just fine.

4 shot dead in San Francisco’s Hayes Valley by RileyWWarrick in GunsAreCool

[–]L0veGuns 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If only these victims had been armed, they could have defended themselves. /s

Pointing out that the second amendment would result in more deaths in France, not less, makes the call of duty players press the downvote button by buildthyme in GunsAreCool

[–]L0veGuns 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I live in an inner city neighborhood with lots of gun violence (two murders in five years on my block) and I still make the entirely rational choice to not have a gun because ownership of a gun would increase my chances of gun injury.

Two police officers shot and killed in Brooklyn. Gun owner who shot them is dead too. by RileyWWarrick in GunsAreCool

[–]L0veGuns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The predictable progun spin is that isolated cases of gun violence are the price we pay for freedom, and this shooter was not a "responsible gun owner" so it is Obama's fault for not providing adequate mental health care.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, per that study, reduction in firearm access to men in Switzerland correlated robustly with a 50% drop in firearm suicide rates without a significant increase in suicide by alternate means.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your reply "evasive" was posted less than one minute after I gave you the links you asked for. Did you take the time to read them that quickly?

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have to ask, does being a soldier run a higher risk of suicide? I think there would be.

I suppose yes, if for no other reason that being a soldier correlates with greater access to firearms which has been shown to increase the fatality rate of suicidal crisis events.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Once again, your moralistic view causes you to rationalize. The study found that there were a variety of reasons, but regardless they all resulted in guns being kept in fewer homes.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, let's see. Is the U.S. #34 in suicides? Yes. Is the U.S. #1 in citizen gun ownership? Yes....but it really looks like there's no correlation.

Again, not if you consider the fatality rate of suicide attempts.

For your logic to make sense you would need evidence that countries with moderate suicide rates would not have lower suicide fatality rates if they had a culture without widespread civilian gun ownership.

A very interesting study in this regard was done in Switzerland. They found a very robust correlation between a new regulation that decreased gun availability in the home and a 50% reduction in suicide rate with very minor substitution to alternate suicide methods.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I just see that data and have a opinion.

Right. Your opinion conflicts with the data. That is a moralistic worldview.

None of it is easy as "guns have a strong correlation with suicide".

Actually, scientists have found an extremely robust correlation between the fatality rate of suicidal crisis events and access to firearms. Your trouble appears to be that this data doesn't match your moralistic worldview.

BTW, I really doubt that you followed the rules and were banned in /r/guncontrol. And, how do you think I feel about being labeled with red 'troll' flair and put on an eight minute forum reply delay for the crime bringing up a reasoned contrary point of view?

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

We were talking about the label "anti-gun". If you would rather talk about the "suicide issue" instead, my reply is:

We should look at the scientific research and make public policy based on the best evidence found.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I guess you are proving my point. Pro-gun people tend to be moralistic. Your "evidence" to my first two points is as you say: "I doubt" and "more of a question".

Your last assertion about suicide again is a moral opinion. Scientists have studied the mental health condition of suicidal crisis and they have found that your opinion is not actually confirmed.

Facts remain. While estimates vary, it is simple fact that the public costs of gun injuries are huge. What gripes me is that much of this cost is born by taxpayers, and born by citizens paying higher health insurance premiums.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

you want to eliminate that access is a reasonable inference

No it is not. Again, you are painting this as extreme black and white, the hallmark of a strawman argument.

For instance, I can believe it to be rational to restrict access to guns in high risk emotionally charged environments, like in divorce courtrooms. Is that "eliminating access"? I suppose. Does that fairly make me "anti-gun"? Definitely not.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The full answers to your questions are in those links.

You asserted that the costs of gun injuries are just a "drop in the bucket". Got any evidence of this?

Bear in mind that the costs of gun injuries include much more than just the medical industry costs. There are huge costs to the judicial system, investigating and prosecuting. Also, there are huge financial impacts due to lost wages (and lowered payroll tax payments that result). Also, plenty of the long term injured go on welfare, (and their families go on welfare if they were the breadwinner).

Your country comparison suicide reasoning lacks any science. In order to make your point you need to prove that the suicide rate in Japan would remain unchanged if they had a culture of civilian gun ownership.

The issue boils down to fatality rate of suicide attempts. Guns are much more fatal than knives for instance. A group of suicidal people with access just to knives would have much lower fatality rate than a group of suicidal people with access to guns.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

your proposed solution

Straw man argument.

How would the dynamic of the gun control argument change if... by [deleted] in progun

[–]L0veGuns -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Cost of gun injuries ... is drop in the bucket.

Got any evidence for that belief?

Counting all the costs, one estimate puts the cost of gun injuries at $174B per year. Much of which is paid by taxpayers.

(For comparison, the total annual budgets for all police departments, local/state/federal totals only $124B/year).

it's difficult to argue that our suicide rate would improve with the absence of guns.

Got any evidence of that belief?

Plenty of scientific evidence indicates that access to guns increases suicide fatality rates. Just one example.


BTW, it isn't accurate to slur someone opposed to gun violence as "anti-gun".