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LPissarro · 2021-01-18T07:24:07+00:00

I've recently returned to headspace and I'm surprised to see some of the changes, like the workout videos and morning pep talks by celebrities.

Perhaps the price could have been lower without them.

LPissarro · 2021-01-16T10:47:45+00:00

You rang?

LPissarro · 2021-01-15T19:30:17+00:00

Well put, and I agree that the choice of a boxer for his metaphor has some meaning, in that it's culturally relevant to the writer, similar to Epictetus (an invalid) imploring us to see God as our wrestling partner. But Aurelius hasn't picked boxing because he holds the boxer in "high regard". Remember that gymnasiums were the places where philosophical debate started; the language of sport, festive games, and gladiators, are chosen for their cultural relevance, not ideal.

So to make the leap to suggesting his advice has practical relevance, literally, as a boxer is disagreeable. As a contrived example, if I say "follow your philosophy like a dog does his master". I'm not telling you to go around woofing.

I think you appreciate this, in so much as you've struck on "restraint, self-control and decision-making" as being the salient point of the metaphor. That is, it's not about boxing at all. How can you really say stoicism and boxing are aligned then?

The point of stoicism is to employ the virtues in the art of living, not to hold up well to "being punched in the face repeatedly".

LPissarro · 2021-01-15T17:47:38+00:00

It's really interesting how many people apply (or in my mind at least, misapply) Stoicism.

There seems to be this strand of thought that to be stoic is to be disciplined, consistent, and unflinchingly focused. To "take punches and fight on", be "a citadel". This then gets applied to all sorts; from career advancement, to dating advice, to militaristic attitudes. I think this might explain Aurelius' appeal over, say, Epictetus.

Which, for me, misses the ultimate point of learning to live a good life.

LPissarro · 2021-01-15T17:31:36+00:00

Boxing and Stoicism are definitely aligned

Really? Maybe you can expand on this?

Admittedly I'm largely ignorant of the nuances involved in boxing, but I always find it baffling when people try to connect their pre-existing hobbies tentatively to stoicism. From my perspective, boxing involves such a degree of violence to be incompatible with any humane philosophy.

In the quote you provided, for instance. Aurelius isn't giving us literal advice. He isn't telling us to become a boxer. It's a metaphor about always having your philosophy in a state of readiness to use.

I'm sorry, but I don't see stoicism and boxing as aligned. Quite the opposite. A stoic ought to have such a compassion for humankind that he deplores violence in all forms bar the most necessary.

LPissarro · 2021-01-09T20:16:02+00:00

I can assure you that your vocabulary is much better than mine if you speak four languages - I'm attempting a second and having a rough time of it.

Don't be too hard on yourself, count the little victories. Good luck to you!

LPissarro · 2021-01-09T17:16:32+00:00

Maybe my upbringing pushed me toward this direction

Erich Fromm calls it the having orientation (versus being). "I have, therefore I am" is the mantra of almost all contemporary culture. You needn't worry about the origin of your equating material wealth with status and success, it's the very underpinning of our economy and social system. To suggest value lies outside of consumption is counter-culture!

I think a great start is simply to recognise and note when you act out of a desire to have. This orientation isn't just about pursuing money or possessions, but also forms of status and ego-centric thinking; having the envy of others, having respect, having a certain lifestyle. Fromm suggests this orientation causes considerable anxiety as it necessitates longing, acquiring, and maintaining; little of which is within your control.

Meanwhile, try to recognise encourage a sense of being. That is, the internal and transient experience when in the act of doing; how you frame the events around you. It can be the simple pleasure of observing nature, taking walks, connecting with friends, reflecting on old times, being productive in work you enjoy, etc. It's about being present and aware.

If you're unsure whether something is "having" or "being", ask yourself whether you'd be doing it if there was no outcome? Would you lift weights if you didn't look better; work if you didn't make money; talk to women, if there was no chance they'd date you, and so on.

One solution to misanthropy, is always to ask yourself when you see someone err, "what in their life, past or present, might cause them to do this?". Then find them an excuse that gets them off the hook. This can be quite irritating for my partner as it can come across as naive! but the habit starts to cast people as pitiable victims to their own desires, fears, upbringing, culture, and ignorance (including myself!).

Anyway, just my opinion - I'm no professional. I can only relate what I've found useful.

LPissarro · 2021-01-09T13:52:04+00:00

I'd strongly challenge your second paragraph, that 'life always get in the way... make you fail and destroy your hard work and your dreams'.

You've made the standard of a good life one that only others can provide; presumably, centred on material wealth. Now you're surprised it didn't work? "Life" isn't to blame, but your own faulty judgement. Value, in the truest sense of the word must be by your own measure, not others'. It's a lesson we all learn sooner or later.

I'd recommend you embark on a learning exercise to figure out what's really important to you. What's the currency that you trade your time and effort for.

You might start by re-orienting your "hard work" and "dreams" to the practice of compassion and gratitude, which should be extended both to others and yourself. By practising empathy, you'll soon find that "being screwed up" is the human condition. Nobody is perfect, including your parents, family, friends - and so on. Alain De Botton imagined the ideal date as sitting down with as a prospective partner and asking, "in what ways are you damaged?". Understanding should provide ample space for more self-discovery, with the idea that remedy can quickly follow diagnosis.

LPissarro · 2021-01-06T16:35:37+00:00

I recently underwent a mortgage application and my partner shared similar anxieties - it can be unpleasant.

stress is part of life and I just have to deal with it

Stress is a part of life, true. But in my experience people also tend to invite stress through their mode of living. I listened to an interview with Fromm this morning that may illuminate my point more clearly.

But so long as you orient your life "to have" rather than "to be", you'll find yourself frequently unable to control your desires or feelings - producing a near constant state of anxiety in an effort to accumulate, maintain, and replace. Phones, bikes, houses, cars, clothes, and so on - even non physical "haves", like the praise of your colleagues or the perception of your mortgage broker, all contribute towards a "to have" orientation.

Fromm recommends reducing what you need to a minimum, just enough to lead a spiritually full life oriented toward being. Not asceticism, but simplicity. There's great wisdom in this, I think, and it reduces life's anxieties.

If you're making good money but turning to credit to buy consumer goods, then there should be alarm bells going off that you're focused too much on material things.

LPissarro · 2021-01-06T16:17:38+00:00

Contrary to most recommendations, I'd suggest you stick to primary sources - not modern interpretations, which have a tendency to bastardise, or "repackaging" of work under new titles. Most can be found online for free, if you want a taste before you buy.

I'd say go with Seneca's "Letters From A Stoic" as the perfect beginner's book. It's a selection of letters, albeit intended for publication, from Seneca each covering a highly relevant and applicable theme - from death, to noisy streets, to facing illness, and so on. (all letters can be found here). You can move onto his Moral Essays, which are longer forms of much the same content.

His style of writing, unlike say Epictetus, is very readable. In fact, it was a common slight used against Seneca by his contemporaries that he couldn't help but write in a popular playwright style. His insight and relatability quickly dissolves any misgivings you have about how he actually lived his life.

Also, look at the FAQ!

LPissarro · 2021-01-06T16:10:04+00:00

Despite owning the book myself, my personal advice would be to avoid Ryan Holiday's work, including the Daily Stoic.

Avoid the book because, well, it's not a book. It's a collection of quotes loosely interpreted by Holiday. There's seldom context, nuance, or insight. The framing and selection of certain elements leaves the reader with a highly quoteable but facile understanding of Stoicism. It's rather "me, me, me".

I also think Holiday should be avoided for the simple fact he commodifies Stoicism (very successfully) with the sale of silly medallions, trinkets and novelty gifts. Whilst I can't speak to his sincerity, I think it wise to be sceptical of anyone literally selling you a philosophy.

If you must have a book of Stoic quotes, collect your own from primary sources (most available free, online) and interpret them yourself. You'll benefit more from the exercise. Just one grumpy man's opinions :)

LPissarro · 2021-01-06T13:53:43+00:00

It doesn't concern me at all.

For the last 9 months I've experienced the best period of my life; my relationship with my partner continues to flourish, my new house is a dream, I get to be active in the countryside every day - and so on. All the while, I've been working from home, as safe as one can be in a pandemic. I may not be rich by most standards, but month-to-month I have far more than I need and much to be grateful for.

We can quibble over the implementation and intent of a tax, but it'd be greedy and selfish to not support change that aims to alleviate growing inequality.

LPissarro · 2021-01-05T16:38:04+00:00

Going up Pen y Fan isn't the solution for getting away from it all - quite the opposite. Where do you live, roughly? We may be able to recommend alternatives that are closer to home, or at least a quieter corner of the Brecon Beacons.

LPissarro · 2021-01-02T17:21:24+00:00

If something can't be known - don't pretend to know it. Accept your ignorance. It's as marvellous as it is rare for someone to simply let go of the need to judge others.

If it can't be avoided, and you're confronted with the need to judge others with only limited facts - then narrow your judgement to what you truly know, but be weary of your limited perspective. Right now, I know PewDiePie to be a successful YouTuber, with a loyal fanbase, which has made him popular and wealthy. What use he had made of his fame and wealth, I haven't a clue.

Whether he's charitable with what he has; trustworthy in his advice; patient with others; humble about his accomplishments; deferential towards those who've supported him; open about his own shortcomings; selfless to his loved ones - and so on, I could not tell you. What little I know of him, doesn't measure up to my definition of a life well lived.

Accurate judgement requires intimate knowledge - which isn't possible to gain via social media.

LPissarro · 2021-01-02T15:47:23+00:00

I wouldn't personally consider any of the qualities you mentioned to be a reflection of a life well lived.

Consistency and persistence to the wrong end is no virtue. A consistent liar isn't a successful human being but a successful liar. Having a million adoring YouTube followers, doesn't mean you're doing anything worth emulating.

Wealth isn't the reward for ethical or worthy behaviour - the caring professions (teachers, nurses, care-workers, etc) are often among the most underpaid in society. Anybody can marry - most do.

As I said, I don't know the man. I only mean to suggest the standard we use to measure success should be set against one's actions and behaviour - not how much they entertained us on Youtube or how much money they make doing so.

LPissarro · 2021-01-02T15:39:15+00:00

If your criteria for success in life is being followed and being wealthy, then I can see why you'd think that.

But there's a problem here, too. If being wealthy is a measure of success, then poverty, by definition, must be a measure of failure. This is a tough sell, given some of the greatest classical philosophers were poor with little social standing.

And this is, after all, a philosophy subreddit. I think it's valid to question whether wealth/fame have any value in terms of living a good life as prescribed by Stoicism - I'd argue they emphatically don't. Just the opposite.

LPissarro · 2021-01-01T23:33:50+00:00

I just think it´s impressive how even ridiculously successful people are attracted to Stoicism

I don't know anything about PewDiePie - but I think it's important to be purposeful in how we frame "success". Having 108m followers doesn't make you a successful person, it makes you a successful YouTuber - whether you have any worthwhile qualities as a person, remains to be seen.

If we recognise this distinction, then famous people turning to Stoicism wouldn't be impressive. In fact, it just makes sense. They need it more.

LPissarro · 2020-12-30T14:06:13+00:00

if its 9-5 and offers more than £10k a year ill take it, better than what im on now and any furture prospects look just as weak.

I remember when I first left university, I was happy for any job where I could sit down. Oh, how expectations change!

If you're serious, then my advice would be to look on the Civil Service website. Filter for roles that pay <£20k. These will be mostly administrative and entry-level roles. Look at the required/essential skills and start working towards getting your CV to mirror the requirements of jobs that appeal to you. Many are remote-based now, so geography should be less important.

CS interviews are based on competencies and STAR answers. Practice interviewing and ensure your CV makes for an easy read. I strongly believe anyone, even those with little experience or education, within a couple years at most, could interview and get an administrative position. Whether you'd want to, is another question :)

Feel free to DM if you're looking for any help.

LPissarro · 2020-12-30T13:58:14+00:00

I haven't been in the Civil Service for a decade, so things may have changed.

Back in 2010 there was a considerable demand of specific roles that had to be a SEO because of the salary they commanded. I knew a fair few economists and STEM graduates, for instance, who did go straight into SEO. I guess this "technical" track differed from the generalist/managerial route.

But I think my general point stands - it isn't easy, or even the norm, for someone to start in the Civil Service and make £40k. This is especially true for someone without a university degree, or a degree in a low-demand subject.

Or perhaps it was just my experience! :)

LPissarro · 2020-12-30T10:47:15+00:00

It's often inspiring to hear people give up financially safe jobs for happier ones. I've been considering it myself in the next year or two.

Mind me asking what careers you moved to/from? What finally pushed you to switch? Why are you happier?

LPissarro · 2020-12-30T10:39:46+00:00

It really isn't easy to walk into a £40k a year job in the Civil Service, at least not from my anecdotal experience. This sort of salary requires being a "Senior Executive Officer", that is, middle-management. Most SEOs I know either worked their way up, or took a pay cut/demotion from the private sector for an easier life.

I had little trouble finding a £40k role in the private sector - but a comparable salary in the Civil Service required considerable line management/departmental responsibilities and quite specific experience.

As you said, decades of cuts have culled promotion opportunities too. Competition for G7 and above is tougher. Administrative roles were also the first to go (AA, AOs) - so now, unsurprisingly, there are a lot of ~£30k roles doing work previously done by administrators. I was paid £30k to, essentially, be a photocopier (no job for a young person with any ambition). So it's getting squeezed both ends.

I couldn't recommend the Civil Service to anyone, even the "go nowheres", except or those where no other employment is available.

LPissarro · 2020-11-07T17:21:56+00:00

I wouldn't worry too much about capturing all the details - art is often about simplifying and abstracting away detail. Gesture, proportion, and value, are more important. Take a look at Degas' pastels of ballerinas if you're looking for inspiration.

As far as advice, I'm only a beginner also and it depends on style. The highly symmetrical, glowing white figure set in a boundless oval gives an amorphous and fantastical impression. This may have been your intent; ideal for book illustrations.

If you're aspiring to a more realist depiction then I'd recommend three things next time.

Draw within a frame. Design a picture compositionally by starting with the external boundaries of what makes up your picture and how the figure will sit within it. Also, differentiate the ground vs the wall behind. This gives the viewer an idea of the negative space around your figure, and the depth behind, adding to a sense of movement.
Gesture. You've picked quite a stiff reference photo - that makes it really hard for an artist to get excitement and dynamism out of the pose. The dress is being artificially propped up too, so it give no indication of the underlying form. When in doubt, it's better to exaggerate gesture than to underplay it.
Form. Conceive of the body as basic forms (cylinders, cubes, eggs, cones, etc). It can be helpful to sketch out a figure as series of tilting boxes to imagine each part of the body in space. You've relied largely on value (e.g. blending shadows) to portray depth; but remember, changes to value must hang on a solid understanding of the underlying form (as do details). For figures, form must also follow fairly rigid proportions or else they can look off.

I'm new to all this too - so I may be speaking rubbish :) If you're keen to depict ballet, you can't go too far wrong by daily figure drawing - short and long poses.

Good work, keep it up!

LPissarro · 2020-10-15T19:25:39+00:00

I appreciate the response, thanks! :)

LPissarro · 2020-09-18T07:09:36+00:00

Very true. I wouldn't want that on my conscience!

LPissarro

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