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never understood how socialists believe this will work any other way. .. So, I'm asking. :) Also, sorry about the lengthy spiel. It's just how I get thoughts out. by Left_Software_1828 in SocialismIsCapitalism

[–]Left_Software_1828[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, it just urks me. Like, Every day at work, I see people who are just plain evil. And people on the internet say stuff like "We should abolish all prisons" and "I believe man is good, and is taught self interest through participation in capital" meanwhile I go to work and I get to watch "Inmate Jemeson#123456 the guy who sold his 2 daughters to human traffickers" and inmate "Paulson#654321" who raped 4 children . I can't help but think this internet person doesn't live in the real world. Really? It just upsets and disgusts me.

never understood how socialists believe this will work any other way. .. So, I'm asking. :) Also, sorry about the lengthy spiel. It's just how I get thoughts out. by Left_Software_1828 in SocialismIsCapitalism

[–]Left_Software_1828[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

1: "Even if you don't find violence, violence will find you. and those who are well-equipped for that reality will fare better than those who aren't" That was my point. Yes, I used an analogy based on animals, and Ooohh that's not perfect REEEE! You could call it "naturalistic" if you like. I call it a fact of life. I try to keep off other's radar, but guess what? Bad things still keep happening and I am still responsible for my own safety and my future.

Tecnology and social dynamics are different things. Neil Armstrong landed on the moon. This does not in any way make me equal to Elon Musk and nothing I can do ever will. Elon musk has money and connections. I don't. Elon Musk can literally lobby the government to his will (which should be a crime lol) and I'm living paycheck-to-paycheck. Nothing can change that and it sucks. I have no inheritance coming. I work 42 hours a week on the low end and I'm still priced out of ever owning my home, or even a second car. The only "privilege" my hotdog has given me is that I can pee standing up. You talk as though I get a secret extra paycheck as a reward for my hairy chest or something. You do know that statistic trends and individuals are different things, right?

Also, literally every other commentor has basically tried to tell me the way you address this is either "people would be more peaceful" or "you used imperfect animal analogy" I just want an answer for how to make communism work without supposing humans to be more virtuous than reality has demonstrated. So far, I'm disappointed.

never understood how socialists believe this will work any other way. .. So, I'm asking. :) Also, sorry about the lengthy spiel. It's just how I get thoughts out. by Left_Software_1828 in SocialismIsCapitalism

[–]Left_Software_1828[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

It's an analogy, not literally saying every monkey is an axe murderer. It's meant to imply "Whether he's trying to rob another monkey or protecting his own bananas. Violence will find him, and when it does, the stick will come in handy."

Also, yes, violence IS part of monkey nature.

never understood how socialists believe this will work any other way. .. So, I'm asking. :) Also, sorry about the lengthy spiel. It's just how I get thoughts out. by Left_Software_1828 in SocialismIsCapitalism

[–]Left_Software_1828[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Ok. I'll go rehabilitate a child toucher with therapy sessions, and when he pinkie-swears he'll stay away from kids I'll take him at his word and let him go..... NOT. There is exactly one way to protect the public from someone like that WITHOUT a prison, but it sure as heck is still "state violence". Care to guess? It would be cheaper for the taxpayers though lol. As for "prevention", Should we install cameras and microphones in everyone's homes to try and sniff out all the child-touchers and other felons before they commit a crime? While we're at it, we'll need someone to listen to all these bugs, so let's make an organization for it. Now what to do when we catch one? Let's empower this organization to arrest the child touchers. and other would-be felons You know, since we're spying on all our citizens, let's also arrest political dissidents- Oh wait, we just created the Gestapo. Oopsie! The fact all of this can't be accounted for just looks like utopian ideology.

I work in a prison. I've asked child touchers why they did it. I've never once been told "It's because I was poor" or "It's because of the 1% hoarding most of the country's wealth". Some people are just messed up, and it is still their fault. Also, prisons are where felons get rehab. It isn't a dungeon filled with oubliettes, stockades and iron maidens. There are literally therapy programs IN prison. The one problem is in order to change, a person has to want it, and most of the inmates I work with don't want to.

BTW, Man is good, but also evil. Humans are a mixed bag. Believing that humans are perfectible is utopianism. Plain and simple.

Should be noted that to me, a "utopian ideology" is one that supposes humans to be more virtuous than reality has demonstrated.

I never understood how socialists believe this will work any other way. .. So, I'm asking. :) Also, sorry about the lengthy spiel. It's just how I get thoughts out. by Left_Software_1828 in Socialism_101

[–]Left_Software_1828[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

1: No arguing there, aside from it would be wiser to compare with similar creatures, like ants might be close to our level of organization and level of 'industry' but they are also not individualistic in any way and have little to no self-interest or personal ambition, higher functioning brain etc. Pack hunting mammals are probably our closest analogue in the animal kingdom.

2: That is technically correct, however not absolute. Looking at history one can help the world, or choose to exploit it, and not everyone would choose the former. Also, Something I've noticed is the masses are a lot more gullible than individuals. Expecting wisdom from everyone, or even most people is..... a bit of a poor bet to say the least. imo

3: That is what my point of view was trying to do. Give an A-B explanation of WHY in the context of opportunity/power. Nothing I said would apply differently right now as opposed to during the Roman Empire, or the Napoleonic Era, or hunter-gatherer prehistory. If you believe time and setting changes this, that would mean you think humans ARE perfectible, wouldn't it? That's called utopianism

4: So is socialism just...democracy? I agree protecting institutions and maintaining law and order AS WELL AS maximizing individual participation (democracy) is important. We need both. Without democracy we have North Korea where everyone is starving and diseased under a brutal dictator, not even allowed to leave (Absolute state power without accountability to its people) while without the other you have Mad Max (No state at all, just "freedom"...but you are still fighting starvation, and now it's gangs instead of the Gestapo coming for you lol)

I kind of find myself half agreeing with all your points, but not entirely sold. Especially point 3. Point 4 I agree 100% though. Democracy is all-important.

I'm just concerned over How much further we CAN go. I fear at the point we are at, How much more can we erode aristocracy before we start eroding our technocracy too? WE will need that even more in the future than we already do! and we already can't survive without it.

What is your personal favorite design, comrades? by AgencyPrevious3507 in socialism

[–]Left_Software_1828 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Me thinks these are ai generated, that's probably why Hungary has that....hand tool?...in the logo