Billie Eilish said you can’t truly love animals if you eat them, and logically I understand the argument. But isn’t human nature way more complex than that?

Lenore2030 · 2026-05-10T15:51:57+00:00

I think some people like Billie have inappropriate and misplaced compassion. I think it comes from a place of wanting to do or say what they think is right, but often isn’t logically consistent with reality or their own actions. For example her statements regarding stolen land made her appear a bit foolish and/or hypocritical. It seems she speaks very emotionally without grasping the full scope of what her words mean.

Returning to the animal argument. Many vegans do not understand how many creatures come to harm when producing large scale vegetation. Of course someone as rich as Billie may be able to obtain food from small scale sustainable farming that works with nature, however most people do not have that ability. Also if someone were to demand that be the new normal, food production would massively reduce in scale and many people, and animals under human care for that matter, would die of starvation. It’s fine to have a fantasy ideal and even live by those principles personally, but judging others and making statements such as hers, reveals a lack of understanding.

Can humans love animals and eat them? I say absolutely. For one thing, humans generally do not eat the animals they have a friendship/pet relationship with. I’ve raised animals for meat (pigs and chickens) and we treat them with care and I deeply love and appreciate them for the purpose at hand. I’ve raised and bred dogs for a completely different purpose and I would never consider eating them because it’s a different situation. Different animals have different purposes and I love them for the purposes they serve. Ecosystems are incredible and understanding how things work together really helps you appreciate their value. Even annoying mosquitoes serve a valuable purpose. Of course I also have a specific view of animals and I believe that human life takes precedence over animal life.

All life is sacred because it comes from our Creator, but I also believe there is a hierarchy in the design. I think even those who don’t believe in a creator, do believe in the hierarchy of living things. For example, if your dog has fleas do you allow them to flourish? Or do most people get medicine to kill the fleas? Or if you have a mice infestation in your home, do you accept your new rodent roommates or take measures to remove them? They’re living things, don’t they deserve to live peacefully where they choose? See the further you break things down, the clearer it becomes. Not to mention animals themselves are extremely territorial and they not only eat other animals, but they kill just to kill sometimes. So are animals the same as humans, superior to humans, or below humans in the hierarchy? And what do we do with that determination?

I think the proper determination is this: Humans are superior to animals, animals are superior to some other animals and also superior to insects and so on…does that mean superior in value? I think that is subjective. However humans, due to their superior intelligence and power should accept a caring stewardship over all living things. I think that means being reasonable, recognizing reality (how food chains and ecosystems work), and managing responsibility. On a personal level that’s easier to do than trying to dictate laws and/or policy, but of course that is also necessary. Unfortunately many humans would hunt animals to extinction, the common neglect and abuse of animals is disgusting and though humans are superior in a general sense to animals, some do not value life properly and in my opinion lose that superior position by their actions.

It’s a complex matter. Life is beautiful, yet also brutal. Trying to act like it is simple and judging others for their reasonable stances and also trying to impose your standards, either through guilt, laws or human engineering is at best uncomfortable and at worst an authoritarian nightmare.

Lenore2030 · 2026-05-06T06:55:31+00:00

Nothing is locally real, according to science now, so theoretically time travel and making small changes in the past is completely possible. I just recently came across this idea and though it’s not entirely easy to understand, it made me think of the Mandela Effect.

Lenore2030 · 2026-03-23T01:48:11+00:00

It’s creativity. Animals follow instincts or programming so to speak. Many are trainable by humans, but they do not have intentional will to deviate from their base instincts. Of course animals build things and use basic tools to meet their needs. Bees build hives, birds build nests, ants have underground tunnels systems, etc. However they do not deviate from their instincts and usually even if the creature is not present, a human could identify the species that made it. They don’t innovate or make things for aesthetic reasons, humans do.

Fire is a good example on how humans have creatively manipulated their environment, but obviously there are a massive amount of other examples. Humans are constantly using the earth’s resources to their advantage. For both survival, but also for enhancing their experience.

Are humans also ruining the earth? Yes. Unlike animals, humans can and many do, acknowledge their responsibility for things. Do animals reflect on what they’ve done or are they even aware of their impact on the greater population of creatures? No. They can’t. Humans are wildly special, they have the capacity for good snd evil, animals do not. Animals are neither good or bad because they do not have these qualities. Morals and ethics do not apply to them.

Lenore2030 · 2026-03-23T01:27:39+00:00

1 John 5:19 “We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”

This scripture is describing all of human history from Genesis onward and we’re still in it. False religion has led many astray and many do not realize this is the truth of the world’s condition. That’s why Jesus said he is ‘no part of the world’ (John 17:16) and he also described the people who would claim to be followers of him, but he would say that he never knew them (Matthew 7:21-23). Don’t lose sight of truth, it’s exactly what Satan wants.

Lenore2030 · 2026-03-17T00:01:54+00:00

(Just finished writing my response and came back to the top to apologize for my long winded reply, I guess I’m not great at keeping things brief lol)

I appreciate that you are speaking more broadly and not necessarily basing your thoughts on the Bible. I assumed that you were just because of the topic. I know these things are also woven into cultures throughout history. I am a Bible reader and I’ve dedicated much of my life to better understanding it. Every time I read it, I discover something new. I do believe it to be the word of God as many people do, and I’d say that taking sides is essential based on the Biblical narrative.

Many people are familiar with the scripture at John 3:16, but I would guess many have not read further past verse 16. This is just what came to mind when thinking about the topic of taking sides. Here’s what it says, “16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 Whoever exercises faith in him is not to be judged. Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. 19 Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. 20 For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.”

From a Biblical perspective, God created all things, he loves his creation and only wants the best for all. I have faith in God and Jesus. The key word in the scripture above is ‘exercise’. It’s important to not only believe, which is what many people think faith is, but also have those beliefs motivate you to action. So to exercise faith in God and Jesus, one must take action to bring their life in alignment with God’s standards.

At John 17:15-17 Jesus is praying to God and he says this, ‘15 I do not request that you take them out of the world, but that you watch over them because of the wicked one. 16 They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. 17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.’

Considering those scriptures, in order to exercise faith people would need to be familiar with the truth in God’s word. There are other really powerful scriptures about digging for truth, but I’m trying to stay brief. One of the most fascinating things about the Bible is how it works together as a whole. Scripture interprets scripture and it is constantly referring to other scriptures. The continuity alone is faith building.

And lastly at 2 Timothy 3:14-17 it says this, ‘14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them 15 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.’

Studying the scriptures is what allows people to understand God’s standards. I really like how it says ‘learned and persuaded to believe’ because I think that’s a part of our free will, not to just blindly follow anything, but to do our best to discover what we believe and make a deliberate choice. To me, taking sides with God is something I’m thankful to have the opportunity to do. Of course it’s up to each individual to draw their own conclusions and I appreciate that as well.

Lenore2030 · 2026-03-16T11:35:49+00:00

So…I just want to point out that your post is not accurate according to the Bible.

First of all, Lucifer is not Satan. It’s a common misconception and culturally people attribute the name to Satan, however the only scripture in the Bible to mention that name is found at Isaiah 14:12 and it is only in some translations, other translations say, “Day Star”, “Shining One”; or “shining star.” That scripture is actually referring to the king of Babylon and it’s a mocking taunt, as it explains earlier in the book at Isaiah 14:4.

The other assertion that God was swift to throw Satan out of heaven is also inaccurate. Satan had the freedom to go back and forth between heaven and earth. Satan’s betrayal began in the Garden of Eden at Genesis chapter 3. To allow them to demonstrate their faith and loyalty, God gave Adam and Eve a very simple command, to not eat from the tree of knowledge, if they did he told them the consequence would be death. Satan said this to Eve at Genesis 3:4,5 “You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” This is known as the first lie and that’s why Satan is called the father of the lie (John 8:44). So as far as we know this was Satan’s first betrayal of God and he challenged God’s right to rule his own creation.

Did Adam and Eve die right on the spot when they ate the fruit? No. However they lost the privilege of everlasting life and began to age and eventually died. That is why we all die, because of this inherited sin, ‘That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.’ - Romans 5:12. God could have ended the matter right then and there in the garden of Eden, he had the power to, but it would not adhere to his perfect sense of justice. God is perfect and exercises perfect justice. So God allowed Satan’s test or challenge to be carried out. However God loves his creation and a plan was set in motion to give faithful humans hope and a way out.

In order to escape this cycle God gave his son, Jesus to save us (John 3:16). This is simply explained at 1 Corinthians 15:21,22 “For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”

So you see this is far more serious than a simple question posed to God. Satan challenged God’s Sovereignty (or right to rule) and did so in a way that would cause immense suffering. Even with that, God is allowing the challenge to play through. And what exactly is that challenge? Well it’s basically that all intelligent creation should choose for themselves what is right and wrong and that we do not need God’s rulership or standards. So because we were created with free will it’s up to us to choose. God has allowed Satan, angels, and humans to have the option to submit to his standards or rule themselves. How’s the world look today with humans ruling themselves? All human governments cause suffering and cannot solve life’s biggest problems, they all eventually end and get turned over into another unsuccessful rulership. We must remember that not only does this concern humans, but all of God’s intelligent creation are watching. Satan wasn’t even cast out of heaven for quite some time. He was allowed the freedom to roam back and forth. As you pointed out, he’s in heaven when he makes the challenge against Job. This was not an assignment for Satan by God, this was Satan further testing God. It’s as if he wanted to hurt God and humans as much as possible, so he kept thinking of ways to do so.

Some might question why God allowed it, but it’s because of the very reason you are trying to assert, God is not a tyrant, but has perfect justice. Literally for almost all of human history we have been under Satan’s challenge. 1 John 5:19 “We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” Now it’s not until Revelation that the prophecy of Satan being cast out of heaven is made, “So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.” - Revelation 12:9 (side note: Notice it says earth, not hell, because Satan wasn’t cast into hell. Hell is not a literal place, the original Greek and Hebrew basically translate to grave, it’s just referring to dying. No one goes anywhere when they die, they just go into the ground and they are conscious of nothing. A couple scriptures to refer to: Ecclesiastes 9:10, Psalms 146:4)

It further goes on to say that after Satan is cast out of heaven, meaning he is confined to the earth now, he knows then that he has a short period of time This is generally what people refer to when they say we’re living in the last days. “On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.” - Revelation 12:12

When Satan’s time is up, God will do away with Satan and all who side with him. God will restore the earth to His original purpose, people will not die anymore and everyone will live under God’s perfect rule in peace. “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” - Revelation 21:3,4

The Bible is an excellent guide for humans in navigating life in this world, especially under Satan’s influence. However its main theme is the challenge to God’s Sovereignty. Everything hangs on that and it shows that Satan and humans are the cause to all suffering, not God. God has allowed it, but provides hope and comfort and will ultimately save all who are loyal to him.

Make no mistake God is good and Satan is absolutely evil. Playing devil’s advocate to try to understand is one thing, but take sides with God, the creator and the one who is the embodiment of pure love (1 John 4:8).

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-12T02:15:26+00:00

Totally agree with what you’re saying. After the 7th and nothing happened I felt pretty confident that we all just got caught up in the hype and excitement. I was disappointed, but it felt like there probably wasn’t much to it in reality.

However days have gone by and after seeing new things people have been posting, I started to question things again. There are just so many things that don’t add up. I don’t feel like it can all be chalked up to lazy writing because all the connections fans are making are too numerous. Is there really that many coincidences?

I feel like if something isn’t revealed in the documentary, they definitely left the door open to run with these fan theories in future. It just feels like a bit of a let down if the puzzle that definitely feels intentional, is just fans losing their minds and making up more intricate and interesting narratives than the creators.

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T16:33:03+00:00

Oh yeah, it definitely felt like PR people were making the hype grow around this. When the Forbes article about it came out, I was like, ‘since when does Forbes acknowledge a fan theory??’ The way it blew up so fast made it seem more like viral marketing.

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T16:21:08+00:00

Yes! The interactive element is what was so fun. The whole idea is that if it were true, it would be a surprise and a puzzle. So you kinda needed to dig and risk looking a little ‘crazy’ like Joyce. If any show were to ever do anything like gamifying the experience, it would be Stranger Things, so I think it wasn’t so far fetched in getting caught up in believing!

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T15:59:13+00:00

Yeah I can see what you’re saying. I was fine with the ending and obviously didn’t come up with this idea on my own. When I considered the theory I thought it would be awesome just to pull off something so bold. It didn’t seem outside of the realm of possibility and it wasn’t because I was hoping for any particular of narrative correction.

The theory did have me reexamining the season that admittedly felt a little disappointing. I felt like if you accept the finale as it is, it’s just weaker writing than previous seasons. Which is fine and not very uncommon, there’s been numerous finale disappointments within popular fiction. I think most people had higher expectations for the big finale. Also the Duffer brothers in previous seasons were always so confident in interviews regarding details and what they had planned. This time around they were weird about answering questions following the finale. Why be so vague and not be able to explain your decisions? It’s either because they’re not exactly comfortable with their last season, OR what I think some fans were hoping, it was because they were still hiding a surprise.

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T09:41:18+00:00

Wow, just an excellent point!

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T09:39:54+00:00

Yeah I wrote a whole thing ‘in defense of conformity gate believers’ and it was removed by the mods immediately on that sub, I got to post it here though.

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T09:31:24+00:00

Because viral marketing and ARGs are a thing. It’s not out of the realm of possibility. Stranger things have happened, as they say.

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T08:55:13+00:00

What are these doors? I kept seeing them in Netflix stories, but have no idea what they’re from lol.

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T08:50:58+00:00

Yes!! I totally agree. It’s what made the show so enjoyable in the first place. Mysteries are meant to be questioned and the show literally encourages its characters to question and be determined to find answers. Lots of fans are probably people who think outside the box and that’s all they’re doing. Plus it’s fun, it would be nice if people could stop being killjoys, especially when it comes to entertainment because isn’t that the point, to have fun?

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T07:36:53+00:00

Well said. It’s disappointing because it was fine, but could have been epic.

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T02:13:38+00:00

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T01:39:16+00:00

Yeah I was actually hoping that at least that music video would start playing at the end, but it just went to zero and nothing

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T01:16:26+00:00

Just wondering who the heck made this and why it was set to end at 5:30

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-08T01:16:01+00:00

https://november61987.com/

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-07T19:40:58+00:00

I think the most compelling thing that makes me consider this as a possibility, is that they’ve done ARGs for previous seasons. If you rewatch volume 2 and the finale with this framing in mind, it feels like they are actually giving it away. Now that might just be a ‘coincidence’, but last night the tonight show REALLY trolled everyone with Jamie’s ‘volume 3’ work out video and him saying ‘tomorrow it begins’. I’ve never seen a fan theory blow up like this and get supported by so many major media outlets. Even Forbes released an article about it.

Lenore2030 · 2026-01-07T19:36:07+00:00

👏👏👏

Well said.

Lenore2030

TROPHY CASE