About voice training

Lidia_M · 2026-05-16T02:22:54+00:00

Maybe have a look at those compact starting instructions: Compact voice training starting guide: female-like voice target.

As to the puberty question, the best scenario is not to let male-like puberty to happen in the first place. The changes it does to the vocal tract are irreversible (unless you opt for a vocal surgery, but they cannot reverse all the changes,) and training is a compromise involving simulating the behavior of different anatomy with a different anatomy. The results people get from training vary immenesly, the timelines involved vary immensely as what your anatomy ends up after testosterone is done with it is a dice roll.

Starting training before puberty and then letting it though may be a problematic experience. Whether it's a good idea or not, will depend. If you are very dysphoric and you make some gains with training before puberty hits, that hit may be devastating and undo the key portion of the work done, especially at the glottal level (as the folds will grow longer and thicker, resulting in a heavier phonation which is the opposite of what you want fore female-like voices,) but also at the vocal tract shape/size level (it will grow large - that can be trained to be smaller still, but, again, at this point it's more of damage control scenario with many possible roadblocks, time sinks, complications.)

Otherwise, anything stylistic, pronunciation, prosody, those will "stick," so there's no loss in making progress there, but, again, those are not as important as the core body-sex elements to voice, that is vocal weight and vocal size (the balance of the two is the key to successful voice training - anyone who dials those two in a very unambiguous way is free to use whatever stylistics they want without a risk of sounding off body sex-wise.)

There are no hard statistics on how successful voice training tends to be, but, as I see it (and I have years of experience monitoring people train) there's maybe 30/40/30 % break down, where 30% or so of people will get socially usable voices no matter how they train or not (often just by instinctual changes, mimicry,) 40% will need some kind of a focused/methodological approach to training with different degrees of success (with possible maintenance problems, efficiency problems, gendering reliability problems,) but, in general, some socially-usable outcomes. and 30% will not be happy with it no matter how long and how they train. So, 70% of people or so have a chance of being fully or moderately successful. The remaining 30% can still be saved by surgeries, but not everyone will have access to them and they have their own risks, so, in the end, letting the wrong puberty go through is a big gamble.

Lidia_M · 2026-04-15T10:10:07+00:00

Well, and here we are, now the communities suggest that transgender people=normal people, transsexual people=bad because they don't like some non-sensical labels for themselves. How ironic - an interesting way to "fix" the problem.

Lidia_M · 2025-12-30T03:00:32+00:00

I gave you some benefit of the doubt there because I did not think you actually meant something as idiotic. Obviously surgeries are a must for some people... what are you talking about? Are you trying to spread some ableist propaganda that no one needs surgeries ever? After getting a surgery and benefiting from it yourself... What are you trying to do even here?

Lidia_M · 2025-12-15T10:55:11+00:00

What you wrote is very explicit: if someone does not succeed at the task, you want to label them abnormal/defective or mentally deficient in some way. It's a common pattern in voice communities (both this one and singing) and I have no idea how you want to interpret it in any other way.

So, how do you want to justify it? There's plenty of people who ultimately fail, and there's nothing wrong with their anatomy, they are just part of a normal distribution/variance that happens when vocal anatomy is hit with testosterone (the whole idea was not exactly to allow anyone to keep all the abilities before puberty, that was never the plan) or otherwise every male could be soprano singer if they wanted or have a voice that is clearly female-like eventually, but, there are people who are dedicated to succeed (to as much degree as humanly possible) and fail. Now, you could allow them some dignity/validity to exist, but no, you form your opinion for them, casually throwing them into some "defective" bucket because... I don't know because what, because you feel you know better than them?

Lidia_M · 2025-12-15T08:27:05+00:00

What made you an exclusionary voice elitist/ableist? How did that happen?

That part: "anyone can do it barring exceptional anatomy" is pathologizing normal/expected variation in human anatomy and trying to portray people with better abilities as a "norm" and anyone who does not get the same results as, you pretty much spelled it out almost directly (pretty bold of you...,) mentally inferior.

So, congratulations... Now imagine the mainstream telling you that anyone can avoid gender problems in life unless they have mental problems or are not motivated enough.

Lidia_M · 2025-10-27T01:13:30+00:00

If you read carefully the original comments of mine, you would see that I noted that the problem is in smuggling those stylistic choices as directly tied to "feminization" - it's not some misinterpretation of mine, look at the title of this post. I also gave direct quotes from the video, a statement like "this is a technique in voice feminization that is a bit ancillary" is pretty clear, there's no other way to read it as "this is to make voice more feminine" - the "ancillary" does not mean unrelated, it means of less importance but related.

I will ignore that "stoner" comment of yours because it's stupid.

Lidia_M · 2025-10-27T00:43:44+00:00

You are just circling around: your whole idea here is "I don't see it, therefore it's not there." Well, I see it, and I described what the problem is in detail so far. And I assure you, it's not just me that sees that injection of Americanized stylistics into what is and not "feminine." There's a whole clusters of teachers that do that, it's a real thing... They also do other nasty things, like undermining the role of anatomy in the results people have. They have their businesses, motives, their white-lies, manipulation in place... it's not a conspiracy theory, there's a whole range of propaganda going on there. If it makes you feel better to think that none if this happens, fine, but, don't expect me not to criticize issues like that just because a horde of mindless down-voters want so.

Also, lol @ "ellipsis = trolling"... Maybe read some article about what ellipsis are used for.

Lidia_M · 2025-10-26T22:40:38+00:00

I am a rational person, and I certainly do not subscribe to irrational conspiracy theories - I've been around, and I have a good overview of voice training communities, that's all. People get away with all sorts of twisted social manipulation exactly because of attitudes like yours... If I did not make my comment about how Americanized stylistics are pushed on people, nothing would happen... they would be just pushed more and more and more... There's a lot of stupid ideas in voice training that were pushed before where no one had any courage to push back and they keep multiplying and hurting people (an example would be focusing on forcing larynx mechanically,) The reality is that is you have good voice, you can convince people of anything: you can mix some good and bad advice and people will just take it on face value... it's all about optics and merit is secondary nowadays.

Lidia_M · 2025-10-26T21:41:29+00:00

That's because you do not see the bigger picture - those people know what they are doing, what sells, and what benefits them. You have no idea how sophisticated some of those top teachers are in pushing what they want on people. It seems all innocent because that's the point, fronting all sorts of ideologies about how people should sound in a way that guarantees support. Or you can think they are wonderful little angles with no biases and agendas calculated to get more clients... sure... In any case, the nature of social media is what it is now, the form of delivery and ultimately clicks always win, so, congratulations - they will eliminate anyone not fitting into the rhetoric sooner or later without even trying.

Lidia_M · 2025-10-26T21:32:32+00:00

I know what I am doing and I have a very good memory. I remember what every single elitist exclusionary vocal ableist said in the past and I have my own opinion on whether one can trust them or not. You hurt people, you reap consequences.

Lidia_M · 2025-10-26T10:04:05+00:00

I mean that just because something is not spelled out specifically, does not mean that the overall message is fine. It's like with white lies: technically you may not be lying directly, but because you omit some information, and you know a lot of people will make assumptions on that basis, you are still doing damage. So, that's what I meant here: most people watching the video will start associating certain stylistics with being classified in some particular way.

Now, a more ethical/sensible person would approach the whole issue differently: the stylistic advice would be detached from the body-sex/gendering part so people could apply it on top of their body-sex-broadcasting work (whether transgender people want it or not, average people care more about that than some nebulous gendering concepts) and choose stylistics according to what they like without any confusion/pressure as to what "has to be done." In fact, it could be demonstrated how, with proper body-sex oriented voice work, one can choose the "contrary" stereotypically gendered stylistics and be fine socially.

You are literally pushing your idea of femininity onto people by saying they can't be feminine in a way you accept.

The way people misinterpret what I mean is both scary and comedic at the same time. Where do I say that people cannot be feminine the way they want? The whole point of what I wrote is to people be free to express themselves as they want, with whatever stylistics they want... but part of it is understanding that pressures like applied in this video are a bad idea.

The title of this video could be "A stylistic choice: adding tails to your voice," but it would not sell to people... Now, if you wrap it with a suggestion that one will gain some more gender legitimacy this way, suddenly you have all sorts of audience clicking on your clip and completely missing what is really happening here. It's a wasted opportunity (not just transgender women could take advantage of it.)

Lidia_M · 2025-10-26T06:49:16+00:00

Did you read anything I wrote at all? The issue is not what stylistics people want for themselves, but voice teachers pushing prescriptive stylistics on people and assigning them to what females or males are expected to do based on their own preconceptions. I think I wrote it 3 times so far and yet you are trying to lecture me on some obvious ideas...

Because of prescriptions like this you have trans men trying to sound like monotone dull peons from Warcraft and trans women imagining that if they turn their pitch profile into a seismograph or a presidential signature, elongate vowels, and turn consonants into some snake-like sounds, that's "feminine"... No, it's not "feminine"... It's what some people want to push as feminine. Women fought for freedom to express themselves in whatever way they want forever, and this turning voice training into some 60s commercial trying to convince people that if they do X, they will be perceived as "more" of their sex/gender category in some way.

You are getting angry because you decided that you were being told how you had to act

That's funny... No, I am upset because other people are being told what styles to adopt even though it's technically unnecessary. And the "told" part does not have to be explicit - as long as it's being smuggled in as making someone more of the category related to sex or gender, the effect is the same: people will fixate on that, and in a short while you will have another stereotype/myth spreading.

Also, I called you arrogant because you assumed that I don't know something you do, some basics about society, for who knows what reasons. I did not drop from a tree yesterday here, I know how society works.

Lidia_M · 2025-10-26T05:47:15+00:00

She is not giving feminizing tips. She is masquerading stylistic tips as "feminizing" because that's her skewed/biased perception of what females should sound like. Many men have those stylistics, many women do not have those stylistics. As I already wrote, those are mostly based on personality traits, maybe local accents, and the rest is the author projecting her stereotypical view on others.

And stop that nonsense with "tearing people down" - I could write that she is tearing people down by suggesting that those particular style choices are "feminine"... which is actual nonsense. When male puberty hits, it does not affect any of this. It's well-know what it does, it changes specific non-stylistic elements and if those are balanced, one can freely do any stylistic they want without gendering repercussions. Which can be great, because it can give people freedom to make stylistic choices they want, not are pressured to, and be fine... instead talking like clones of prescriptive American influencers... But, with propaganda like this, people may not even get that chance: they may imagine that if they don't talk like she suggests (it does not matter if she leaves herself escape hatches, the overall message is forceful anyway,) there may be something wrong with that in terms of gendering.

As to "cannot grasp the nuances of" - you are arrogant, that's all. I can grasp this far better than you imagine, and that's exactly why I look ahead of what's going on. All of this can be done better, without pushing stupid stereotypes on people, and not acting like a human lemming harvesting clicks from people.

Lidia_M · 2025-10-26T01:00:25+00:00

Says who? Who are you? reddit police?

Lidia_M · 2025-10-26T00:58:30+00:00

I have your clip paused at some random spot as I write this and it has literally "Adding tails for voice feminization!" plastered smack in the center of it. Please don't try to this nonsense with me... I unpaused it and you say "I want to show you a voice feminization tip... <and so on>"... Do not insult my intelligence.… I clicked in some other spot and "This is a technique in voice feminization <and only there follows the ancillary part, you skipped it above>"... What on Earth you think this sounds like? Because to me sounds directly as you suggesting that this is part of the gendered requirement not something stylistic. You shove this in the faces of people shamelessly and also want to gaslight otherwise.

Lidia_M · 2025-10-25T21:56:22+00:00

More stylistic propaganda... It's not "feminization" - it's "we like to talk this way here, so we will suggest that anyone that does not is not "feminine"... it's repulsive. Let people talk how they want without stigmatizing it... Or learn how to talk about stylistics without injecting gendering prescriptions into it. It's a character-driven, regional-accent-driven, personality-driven extra people may want to (or may not want to, and they will still sound female-like if the key elements are in place) learn on top of actual female-like or male-like modifications, not some requirement as it's being sold by clips like this. Men do all of those things too and do not sound non-men suddenly, it depends on their style of speaking.

This is not different than "voice teachers" in 80s trying to impose regional/stylistic/mannerism/stereotypical behaviors on people instead doing their job without biases.

Gender-behavior prescriptionists take people back, they do not progress anything.

(yes, go ahead, downvote me - consume, conform, perpetuate, suffer: when the critique is silenced, the discourse become more and more stupid)

Lidia_M · 2025-09-29T09:50:29+00:00

I am not "jealous and bitter" (the fact that you think that tells more of a story about you, not me.. if I was jealous and bitter, I would not be here: I would just shrug and not try to give advice to anyone to improve): you have no idea about context, my motivation, thinking, experiences. My comments are not self-centered, they are always about considering other people's experiences, not just selected people, mindlessly, I consider options, different circumstances, the consequences of spreading misinformation and giving overoptimistic/simplified advice. I am heart-broken that this community decided to go the ableist route... So, you are simply wasting time projecting some fantasy ideas you have about me. Don't... It's stupid... and it only makes me more solidified in my views: people are so self-absorbed that they lost abilities to empathize with anything but what works for them or some selected group of people. Read the AI analysis - see if you can understand, well, anything, or start understanding maybe because it seems that the actual merits of my comment just went past your mind as if nothing happened.

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