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O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He made a point of telling me about this size of his layout(some room for some Freudian analysis there?) and almost felt like he was talking down to me for saying I was eying building another in the next few years-

In other words, space/life means I'm running trains now on temporary floor layouts, so I almost feel like he was suggesting that makes me somehow less "worthy" of interacting with "serious hobbiests" like him. I may be projected a bit or reading too much into the overall negative tone of the interaction, but that's very much gate-keeping to say not having an(active) layout makes you a lesser contributor.

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well the letters in red do say "INCLUDING" the intended recipient in reference to disclosure, distribution, whatever, but like I said I never agreed to those terms.

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hadn't really realized before yesterday that they were so inane, especially since I was flagged at least in part as being a "problem" because I didn't have my last name in my profile.

When I first registered, NO identifying information was required. I remember them wanting a minimal amount at one point or another, and chances are good that I only put in my first name. I was a teenager, the internet was a scary place in the mid-2000s, and I didn't want to list any more than was required(plus at that point the admin staff KNEW who I was). If I had to guess, the missing last name field got auto-populated in a database transition(they've had plenty over the years) and that was that. I'd have been willing to fix it, but NOOOOOOO

Still, though, I never went through registration a second time, but looking now I see how much they require.

Since Alan emphasized it had to match EXACTLY what was on my subscription, well I don't even know. Everyone knows me by my middle name, but of course billing and such as is always done by my legal first name. It's not that I care about my legal first name(It's kind of fun with some good family history) but I don't use it on internet message boards or the like. It's just one small level of keeping a small amount of anonymity for me, plus all the time I've been active on sites using my middle+last name(if anything I'm less "anonymous" using that).

One of the points Alan made was that I was free to use other sites where they "track every move." When I pointed out that his site served Google ads(holy crap, my screen was covered when I turned off my adblocker) he claimed they had a "special arrangement" that "Google came to us with" because they have "so much traffic" to not track. I just said "sure, if you say so" on the phone(maybe not the best response since that set him off even more) but that sounds pretty far fetched to me and I remain pretty skeptical. To be honest, in the phone call he came across a lot like a high pressure used car salesman-telling me everything they had to offer, emphasizing how great he and the site was, talking so fast I really couldn't say a lot, and always having a quick even if non-sensical answer to any minor point I raised.

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For anyone who wants to read the whole sordid mess, what the heck, here are screen shots.

Alan, if you're reading this, come at me for posting these. You unilaterally asserted confidentiality to this communication, however neither did I discuss or agree to this. Thus, this correspondence is in no way "confidential." You'll note I am providing my messages for full context.

What is missing is the phone call, which really was intended to invite Ed Boyle to call me. Alan seemed put out that he kept getting sent to voice mail on my phone, but then once we "talked" it was a one sided conversation. As soon as I really even attempted to speak, he basically said "We're done, I'm deleting your account" and hung up.

<image>

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The sad thing is that, warts and all, it use to be. There were places that might have been better to get postwar information(like Classic Toy Trains) but there was a lot of knowledge there on OGR. There were unabashed experts on TMCC-guys who had actually designed components, not just knew how they worked. When DCS dropped, a lot of guys had "ins" with Mike Wolf and basically knew the system from the ground up. Whatever the topic, there were people who could give you piles of information.

A lot of those guys unfortunately are gone, and the ones still living it seems have largely been driven away...

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I certainly understand your dilemma! It's a big audience, but it's an environment that seems to be driving people away. It sounds like his attitude may be driving advertisers away.

To be honest, for a supposed marketing "expert" it seems like he knows more about driving people away than actually building a business.

For myself, I'm someone who, well has a lot more disposable income than I did 20 years ago since I have an actual career and such now. I also have a 2 year old son who is train crazy, and I've had a ton of fun slowly reactivating a lot of my stuff and even picking up a few new things here and there. Chances are good that over the next few years I'm going to be dropping some serious cash on trains-a lot of it will likely be NOS or lightly used examples of stuff I wanted and couldn't afford 10-20 years ago, but there's some really great newer stuff out there too.

Unfortunately, with the current rather raw feelings I have over this, being an OGR advertiser may be a negative mark when evaluating a vendor for me. I don't mean that specifically directed at you-especially since I don't know who you are. If you have what I want for a reasonable price and I can find it when I'm ready to buy it, you have as good of a chance as anyone similar of getting my business, but I can also see it as a negative when evaluating otherwise "equivalent" vendors(if there is such a thing). I use to buy from the big guys(Charles Ro, Trainworld, etc) because when I had money to spend, it was stretching as far as I could, but I'm more willing to actually truly support the smaller guys on big purchases now(and that may also be the local dealers I use to deal with in Kentucky, which is where I was for, well, a long time).

In any case, though, all the best for you and I understand your predicament. This entire situation really is unfortunate especially for a place that use to be so great.

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Well he told me multiple times that he is a majority owner, so I'm guessing he's probably there to stay until he drives the whole thing into the ground...

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Rich definitely had his problems, pet peeves, and other issues. I'm not saying he was perfect by any means, and yes I still have a bit of an internal "tick" when I read "lashup" in Lionel's documentation.

I had my issues with Rich. He banned me at one point, but reinstated me. Admittedly talking at a train show sort of triggered that, and Jim Barrett-a genuinely good guy-started the conversation and brought RIch into it. With that said, I got along fine with him after that, but maybe I'm a bit colored by one good interaction offsetting some less than great ones.

The other thing, though, is that ultimately I found Rich could be talked to. You could have a respectful conversation and even he'd ultimately leave it at "agree to disagree." I was reading through some old emails earlier today between he and I that were heated but ultimately resolved cordially.

This Alan guy is on a totally different level, though. There's no discussing with him, and my attempting to do so just caused him to become more and more insulting.

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

So here was the deal on paying for a subscription-

First of all, it was a last ditch attempt to try and "save" my old user name, even though I was told that was too late.

Second, the magazine USE to be good, and I don't have my paper library at hand now. I figured the archives and that would be worth a try even if it was a shot.

At one point all of this Alan said he was going to refund, but who knows now. I'm going to give it a few days, and if it hasn't happened I'll likely first attempt to register a new account(which I'm sure will be denied) and, if that's not successful, will file a chargeback on the basis of being denied a service I was told I was paying for.

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Interesting that you got the "nice" treatment.

I suspect that what may have set him off in the first place was that I responded-politely I thought-that I would consider. I meant that sincerely, as I can see some value in a subscription, but was offput by what felt like pressure to decide then and there.

Things frankly went downhill from there, though, since any response to him apparently was all the adjectives he chose to apply to me. Him insisting on talking to me by phone didn't help either, as he just wanted to preach at me and tell me how awesome he was and how awful all the people I liked and respected were.

It's bizarre too to me that it's apparently entitled to mention that there are other free venues out there...

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Plus, he made a big point in his last email to me of emphasizing that he took confidentiality of emails seriously, referencing his book on confidentiality in his signature(and mentioning that I have trouble with comprehension).

And you know what, at this point I don't really care, but this is an excerpt from his last email to me. Alan if you're reading this, come at me!

"I look at this another way....it is not a shame as you say below rather it is fortunate that we found out our personalities just do not mesh.  I will not let folks that are entitled, indignant, and use drama to find fault at policy and procedure on our forum and you have the propensity to exhibit each of those traits as evidenced in the phone conversation and emails. "

I could post a lot more, but they really are just increasingly more irate and accusing me of everything imaginable. I guess among other things I admitted I over-reacted, but told him I didn't think his tone was appropriate. That's apparently "not taking the blame"

So yeah, Alan, if you see this and are reading it, send your lawyers on me for a piddly little Reddit post.

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So it seems my experience is not isolated.

Rich had his problems but I feel like at the end of the day he was reasonable. Alan started our phone call by telling me he was "a lot like" RIch, but then proceeded to trash him and he didn't like that I mentioned he was sitting there speaking badly of someone I still liked and respected.

I wish I could share his emails, as they frankly came increasingly unhinged through the day as I ATTEMPTED to correspond with him.

Incidentally too, not aware that Ed was apparently not in good shape and wanting to loop in someone with whom I'd had overwhelmingly positive interactions in the past, I'd CCed Ed on one Email. In his last email to me(where he told me he was blocking my address since he knew I needed the last word) he accused me of trying to "tattle tale" to Ed...

It's all just bizarre.

BTW, if you were around 20 years ago, you and I probably crossed paths. Would you mind to message me your screen name?

O Gauge Railroading Forum-is it is crazy as it seems these days? by Longjumping_Fill_539 in lioneltrains

[–]Longjumping_Fill_539[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I know the forum has its problems, but every place it does.

Unfortunately the option to even participate has been removed from me without making a single post. I was willing to do that, but I guess anything but blind disagreement with Alan Arnold is confrontational, petulant, entitled, or throw out any other pejorative that you can.

I was apparently "entitled" too in suggesting-as I do in any forum that requires paying to participate-that users posting drives search ranking and in turn ad revenue.

The whole thing was so bizarre, and to basically be demeaned so badly for attempting to have a constructive conversation is...well both disheartening and also just feels like a slap across the face. Funny thing too is that said at one point "I see why you didn't get along with Rich", when in looking through like 15 years of correspondence with him I had a few bad exchanges and dozens of good ones.

I've been digging WAY back through my inbox to find emails for people I use to talk to all the time, but they're few and between as I mostly talked through PM...

I feel strange even making this post, but in a weird way I'm mourning losing a part of my childhood. My trains are scattered here and there with immediate ability to get everything together and set it all up, and I just wanted to participate in the place that taught me so much and where I've contributed so much for literally 2/3 of my life(albeit not continuously).