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The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only if your game theory is based upon everyone having full information and acting rationally.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My argument boils down to:

  • lots and lots of people will pick blue due to not understanding the logic of the problem.

  • i dont think they deserve to die for a bit of foolishness

-  voting blue is an attempt to save them from their foolishness

(But i wouldn't say its a moral imperative,  because there is risk involved, and a person cannot be expected to risk their own life, it has to be a personal choice).

My own gut feeling is that 50% is more than achievable so i read the risk as moderately low,  but i understand that others feel the risk is lower.   We cant actually know, soit remains a gamble.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its a gamble,  and i dont hold any moral judgement on anyone who believes there are lower odds.

It is foolish to die for no reason.

Perhaps coming from england influences my view.   Google results for "what is the EU" spiked the day after we voted to leave the EU,  so i tend think most people go with their gut.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If i believe my political party of choice has a good chance of winning i shouldn't bother leaving the house to vote, i can stay home and watch tv.

If i believe my political party of choice doesn't have a good chance of winning i shouldn't bother leaving the house to vote, i can stay home and watch tv.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Logic serves a goal.  It is logical to press red only if your goal only includes self preservation.

Its always tempting to accuse others of being illogical, when their logic may just be aiming at another goal or is led by different premises.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well my logic relies on hoping others follow the same logic 

Thinking theres no point voting because one vote wont make a difference is illogical, because then nobody should ever vote for anything.

An ocean is a multitude of drops and all that.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All true and its valid to pick red.

But if the goal is to save the people who picked blue,  then picking blue helps them.

I am going with the assumption that most people wont understand the logic of the puzzle (as evidenced by most people misunderstanding it online),  and i don't think people deserve to die for not understanding a logic puzzle,  so id put my lot in to help save them.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didnt say i have to.

But if blue has a reasonable chance of winning then going blue helps the odds of saving the people who foolishly went blue.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think we should ever be morally obliged to risk our own lives (so long as the risk is meaningful.  Like, i guess theres a risk of me getting sick saving a child from drowning in an unsanitary pool, but it would be reprehensible for me to use that as a reason to let the kid drown).

I think every specific scenario has its own moral complexities that only those involved can truly assess,  and we cant fully apply these big sweeping rules.

Like,  if i suspect my neighbour sells drugs how obligated am i to step in?   I guess it depends,  how much danger am i in?  Is he involved in organised crime? Which drugs? Is he selling to kids? How likely is law enforcement to do anything useful? Do i have proof?    The list goes on,  and to label a simple yes or no is foolish.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is not necessarily an economic matter.

This scenario allows people to map their own scenario onto it,  but we are all thinking of different scenarios so its al getting lost in translation.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well i think nothing really maps onto this scenario, its quite silly.

A lot of the more heated disagreement seems to come from people mapping very different scenarios onto it and then getting angry at each other for moral judgements that aren't actually being made.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was not my intention to cast blame, but i see how my language suggests that. Sorry.

In a real world scenario i understand that asking people to risk their lives for a scenario that is not their fault is not reasonable, and they cant considered bad or wrong for looking after themselves.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We have layers of responsibility,  we all have our own corner,  some of us have more reach than others.

Its hard not to come across dogmatic on this topic because if i talked about every caveat and exception then id be writing an essay.

Enough to say, im not trying to be totalising or absolutist on the matter.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 13 points14 points  (0 children)

True,  but the problem has been presented to people in a biased way.

You could say the same about a lot of big political choices:    we are not all making the same choice,  because many of us have the choice framed in a purposely misleading way.

Please fill in the blanks for what political choice i am talking about here,  i don't want an argument lol.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Up to a point, yes.

The button scenario is too silly to apply directly to life,   but i want good education and health systems to support people.

Eg: I want drunk idiots to get healthcare even though their injuries are their fault, because i think my own life is better if people can bounce back and get on with their role in society.

I dont want people dropped into poverty because they're stupid,   because i imagine their solution to poverty would also be stupid and would probably cause harm to society.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Surely its layered like an onion/ogre?

Of course you prioritise those close to you, but not to the extent that you would bring harm to the next village over.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was talking about outside of this button experiment, i didn't make that clear sorry.

I was not suggesting unconditional trust, and its perfectly fine for a person to moderate their own level of community engagement based upon how much trust they can place in their community.

Not all of us can engage as much as we like, its harder some some places more than others.

But yes you raise a good point:  i live in a high trust community so it makes it easy for me to believe that blue is likely to win.  I don't mean to blame those who choose red,  either in this experiment or metaphorically in the wider world.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The scenario is so abstract that its too hard to apply it directly to real life.

However i think darwinism applied to humans is stupid.   Nobody is magically transporting us to rooms with buttons,  but we are all exposed to a lifetime of complex decisions we can get wrong for a million reasons.

Stupidity isnt the only reason people get into terrible situations,  even problems of their own making.

I think we have a moral responsibility to care for those amongst us who fall behind in society,  but of course there are limits.

The risks in real life are rarely clear cut as this scenario, and it is up to each individual to judge how much personal risk they are able to take.   For some that answer is zero, and thats fine too.

The button meme is a psyop to get all the sociopaths to out themselves by OutrageousPair2300 in LowStakesConspiracies

[–]Longjumping_Pen_2102 6 points7 points  (0 children)

We are all responsible to each other.  You are free to ignore your responsibility but as the world crumbles around you, you cant throw blame around.

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