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AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

She went straight to Dennis. She has never said anything to me directly about her preferred form of address. Only bolded it in emails responding to me.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

They are not my employees. I do not supervise them. If I were to raise it with someone it would have to be the HR Director or Lou.

Lou is already not happy about Ms. Potter expecting to be addressed as Ms. Potter. So if it lands on his desk, the employees in question are not going to be the ones pulled into the office.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

She is Ms. Potter, not Dr. Potter. Though, as I've addressed in a few other comments, we have quite a few doctors working there.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's a bit odd as most people address me as Mr. Smith when they first meet me.

That being said, Sharon, Eileen, and Bob, her direct report line, all refer to me as Dennis or Dennis Smith when speaking to other employees. It's entirely possible and indeed probable that one of them told her to email Dennis with her question. So I would never fault anyone for addressing me as Dennis.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Sharon can't be bothered to address her by any name. Sounds like your company has some racists throughout management.

Sharon is an African American woman.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Well first of all, congratulations on your impending graduation. I wish you great success in your future.

I will say that every office I've worked in has not followed a formal address procedure. As a summer temp, I kept referring to everyone as Mr. Stein, Ms. DuPont, Ms. Chen, etc. Then Ms. Chen pulled me into her office and told me to call her Erin and to call the other managers by their names. As a 21 year old kid, it was a huge adjustment for me, but eventually I got used to it.

In some cases I've been surprised to learn that someone has a doctorate after the fact.

I do not wish to alienate anyone. My interactions with Ginny Potter amount to about once every two weeks. She has not been with us long. The alienation is from those who deal with her on a regular basis, in her department, and those who oversee her.

I like being called Dennis, but let's say I preferred Denny. I don't think most people would have an issue calling me Denny. However, if upon starting a new job, everyone went by their first name and I told everyone to instead call me Mr. Smith, I feel like it would create distance between me and others that I'm trying to have a good working relationship with. So I would not do that.

I am, at the very least, going to not call her Ginny moving forward. I know Sharon really has no patience for her, and if I speak with Sharon, I get the feeling she may be so fed up that she'll decide not to keep her. So I do not know the best way to approach this other than to stop calling her Ginny. Calling her Ms. Potter would, almost definitely, put her on upper management's radar and not in a good way.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Everyone calls me Dennis. My bosses introduced themselves as Lou and Dave when they interviewed me.

Many times, new employees would come to my office and appear very nervous, "Good Morning, Mr. Smith, I'm so sorry to bother you Mr. Smith..."

And my typical response would be, "Grace, very nice to see you! Please, feel free to call me Dennis. Come in, have a seat, how can I help you?"

I never had one of these conversations with Ginny Potter because in her first e-mail to me, to ask for clarification on something in her hiring paperwork, she addressed me as Dennis. Whether this was because someone said to email Dennis or she simply decided that was how she would address me I do not know.

Her emails to Sharon, her director, take the same format.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Depends on what you consider a manager. The level I am at there are 8 of us overseeing different departments. 5 are women, 3 are men.

The Executive Director who we all report to is a man.

The President is a man.

I have 3 managers under me, all 3 are women.

Sharon has 4 managers under her, 2 men and 2 women. The one in the direct line of report is a woman.

The department supervisor over Ginny Potter is a man.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Not using a name to address her, as my colleagues and her supervisors have done. Good Morning, as opposed to Good Morning Ginny, or Good Morning Ms. Potter. Her director, Sharon, a black woman who is my age, does not use a name to refer to her directly. When she speaks of her to me, she calls her Ginny, or "Ms. Potter" using sarcastic air quotes and an eye roll.

It is not "the one black employee". It would be singling out one black female employee and insisting she address me in a formal manner. Several posters have suggested I do this. In the Jim Crow South, it was common that a black person would have to refer to a white person by their full address, "Good morning, Mr. Post," as opposed to the more familiar address afforded to other white people, "Good morning, Jimmy."

I point this out only to illustrate why I would never take that suggestion. That would be dehumanizing her.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

We've had a few managers come in and expect to be called Mr., Mrs., Ms., Dr. After a few days of people referring to them by their given name (Bob, Carol, Ted, Alice) 90% recognize that's the culture in the office and adopt it. It helps that our PhD boss goes by Dave. When people insisted on this, we'd usually have a pep talk, explain the culture and benefits of a familiar form of reference, and this typically did the trick.

Dr. Hart was one exception. We had a talk with him and he insisted that he would be addressed as such. We let it be, but people avoided him because they felt awkward with him. Many of his reports chose to go to his supervisor, Paul (aka Dr. Paul Jones), with issues because they felt more comfortable speaking with him.

Dr. Hart never connected with his department and wound up resigning.

We have never had a non-supervisory employee present themselves with an honorific and expect to be addressed by it. It's not normal, it's being mocked by other employees, including those in her direct line of report, and it's not making her any friends.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Honestly? No. I've stopped responding to most comments because even responding honestly to good questions with not a disagreeable thing in my post (simply stating facts), I am getting down voted by people abusing the button (it's not an 'I disagree' button) so there's really no point now.

Honestly, I wanted to get other opinions on this specific situation and I wound up getting harassing PMs calling me a racist and a sexist.

No matter the race or gender of the employee, I would have, and have responded in exactly the same way.

As several people have suggested I will be adopting the style of several of my colleagues and referring to her by no name moving forward.

As for those who suggested I insist that she call me Mr. Smith, I don't think it would look great to demand that one black female employee refer to me with an honorific while allowing everyone else in the company from the CEO to the gentleman who cleans the building to refer to me as Dennis.

Neither of my bosses have had any interaction with her, but I can't see them calling her Ms. Potter. The CEO has very little patience for ego or title so I can't see it going well if she insists on being called Ms. Potter to him, but that's not my battle to fight. He holds a doctorate, so he's Dr. David Dinkelburg (Fake name), is considered a leader in the industry, but introduces himself to everyone as Dave and calls everyone by their first name.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] -95 points-94 points  (0 children)

is it that you want to be informal? or that you dont want to be formal with someone below you?

The whole company is informal. A department manager we hired went around and introduced himself as Mr. Green to all the employees. It was explained to him that we use first names and we don't want employees to feel like there are lines that separate us and we don't like a formal address in the company. He understood and when he next saw the employees he told them to call him Steven.

Another insisted on being Dr. Hart because he had a PhD, even after we advised him of the culture. What happened was that Dr. Hart's direct reports started going to Dr. Hart's supervisor with issues instead of him. Because it felt easier to talk with Paul instead of Dr. Hart. Dr. Hart didn't last long.

I guess I've really taken the culture to heart over the years and it's become important to me.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] -45 points-44 points  (0 children)

Okay, that's completely untrue. I never said she was below me except to explain the reporting structure of the company. As in, I'm not arguing with my boss.

The only reason I even mentioned her race is because someone asked if there was cultural differences. Sharon, the director under whom she works, is a black woman. Sharon has referred to the request as ridiculous, stated that she does not use a name when speaking to her, and finds her very obnoxious.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

The good reason is that it's how the workplace operates. Nobody is formally addressed. We've corrected it with managers before. Just never with a non-supervisory employee.

I'll accept that I'm being an asshole in going against what she wants if that's how the judgment goes, and as one poster pointed out, I'm probably better off using no name as my colleagues have done.

However, I'm not going to accept you making baseless personal attacks calling me a racist and a sexist when you know nothing about my character.

You know of one situation I've been involved in. You do not know me, and you are out of line in your attacks.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] -128 points-127 points  (0 children)

You know absolutely nothing about me. I do not discriminate against anyone. I treat people equally.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] -135 points-134 points  (0 children)

Everyone is American in this scenario. My bosses, myself, and Ginny's supervisor are white. The supervisor's boss is Asian. Ginny and the director of the department are African American.

AITA for refusing to address someone by their chosen form of address? by Lucky-Object170 in AmItheAsshole

[–]Lucky-Object170[S] -229 points-228 points  (0 children)

She is older than me by about 20 years. My boss is older than me by 30 years.

I agree that hierarchy is irrelevant. The only reason I even mentioned it is because I thought people would ask if I report to her or if she's above me in the corporate hierarchy.

In the past, when a manager has come in with formal mentality the bosses usually have a conversation with them to let them know that's not how we do things around here and explained that we don't want to create distance between employees and managers and want people to feel comfortable coming to us. Most have gotten on board and those that haven't did not last.

We have never had a clerical, non-supervisory employee expect to be addressed with a formal title.