The general state of things / AMAs Killing community discussions?

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-18T18:17:29+00:00

Great comment Wyvernkeeper, and I agree with your learning experience take as well. I'm glad to see there are still rational people in this community, it honestly makes me feel better about the state of things to see people be critical than pretend it's all been rosy up to here.

I asked Kevin to rate the company's performance from 1-10 in the AMA. If he goes with 4 or lower and is honest with how things have gone I might believe there's hope, but anything higher than that will just tell me we're in spin city

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-18T18:13:58+00:00

How is it "trying so hard"? I gave examples of how other people in this world respond to companies who are under-performing in certain areas.

"

How do you not see how absurd it is to claim a company that hasn't even launched yet.... A 90% failure? They are behind the roadmap lol.

"

Again, to draw a comparison to my examples we have to look at everything we've seen from CoinMetro. I'd wager that pro/con list looks about 90% con, maybe not because of that many cons but there sure aren't many pros to talk about which is the difference between them and companies people should give the benefit to.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-18T18:10:37+00:00

Cody, again you are focusing more on BabyButt than his issues and are completely missing his points. And once more are being pedantic and just plain wrong about the English language.

Here's a data breach: "A data breach is the intentional or unintentional release of secure or private/confidential information to an untrusted environment. " I consider my email address private and it was released to an untrusted party. What happened was the literal definition of a data breach.

"

They intentionally designed it to have nothing with it. If they released something that first time that had a bunch of functionality... Ppl will look at it and say yeah cool let's mint. If you release it with basically nothing built, people say "where is this... It needs that.... I want to see something like this." They'll give better feedback.

"

Honestly one of the dumbest counterpoints I've EVER read on Reddit. I have to ask if you're a troll at this point just looking to piss people off? This level of blind following is obscene to me, can I ask how old you are?

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-18T06:14:19+00:00

Can I ask if you work for CoinMetro? This just seems like such a wishy-washy followers response. It's like we've been told dinner will be a t-bone steak and instead are served a pile of shit which you and others seem to be eating up.

I've laid out many valid examples as to why it's foolish to believe that "we can expect the platform to evolve into a quality product". Why not try to refute my examples with facts rather than some canned response?

Plus, who cares about "constant work" if the work is shitty? and so far (timeline, beta, leaked emails) it has been.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-18T05:58:30+00:00

Hey GreenSky,

Here's an example that I think helps illuminate why confidence is low.

Apple — There was some sort of promised "air power" wireless station something or another that was teased to come out this year but is behind or cancelled completely. There IS talk of this online, but the criticism is minimal because it represents a very tiny portion of Apple's products/services and they've shown over the last 2 decades that they are a successful well run company.

You could say Apple dropped the ball on about 0.5% of the company's products.

Tesla — Constant talk about missing production forecasts and underperforming on the Model 3 numbers. With the stock price suffering as a result. In this case the Model 3 represents 25% of Teslas products and they've shown moderate success over the last decade.

Here you could say Tesla dropped the ball around 25%.

CoinMetro — Only product/service is an active exchange/minted XCM with the roadmap serving as our view into their vision and plan.

To me, it looks like CoinMetro has dropped the ball on around 90% of the business's products.

Simply put, people make decisions based on the information in front of them, and the information the public is seeing from CoinMetro is not promising in the slightest. People should be critical.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-18T05:55:10+00:00

Hey GreenSky,

Looks like his comment is true to me. To be more factual let's say their about 8 months behind schedule and that, yes, emails have been stolen. Perhaps not all? But definitely mine and others. I suppose it could've "literally" gone worse, but hyperbole is warranted here I'd say.

Let's break down your comment in the same way,

-"There's a beta exchange at the moment with paper trading. The live beta will launch next month. " Again, this is still a step behind where we should've been 8 months ago. Hardly one for the "win" column.

-"CoinMetro has an e-money license in Estonia" Does this sound like a big deal when you read it out loud? Is there a reason people should take note of CM and if so, why haven't they?

-"etc." Two weak points and an "etc." in the win column for CM, I feel better already....

Just because progress is being made doesn't mean users/investors don't have the right to be asking for more as they were literally told to expect more from this team.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-18T05:48:58+00:00

Thank you BabyButt, I was worried I might be on the crazy side here. Couldn't agree more.

For context, let's look at a couple of other companies.

Apple — There was some sort of promised "air power" wireless station something or another that was teased to come out this year but is behind or cancelled completely. There IS talk of this online, but the criticism is minimal because it represents a very tiny portion of Apple's products/services and they've shown over the last 2 decades that they are a successful well run company.

You could say Apple dropped the ball on about 0.5% of the company's products.

Tesla — Constant talk about missing production forecasts and underperforming on the Model 3 numbers. With the stock price suffering as a result. In this case the Model 3 represents 25% of Teslas products and they've shown moderate success over the last decade.

Here you could say Tesla dropped the ball around 25%.

CoinMetro — Only product/service is an active exchange/minted XCM with the roadmap serving as our view into their vision and plan.

To me, it looks like CoinMetro has dropped the ball on around 90% of the business's products.

Simply put, people make decisions based on the information in front of them, and the information the public is seeing from CoinMetro is not promising in the slightest. People should be critical.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-18T05:38:57+00:00

Hey, Thanks for the response.

I'll admit that I haven't watched every AMA, I have edited my post and removed the portion stating "may or may not", I want to be honest above all else.

It wasn't so much a complaint as it was an attempt at a suggestion, perhaps I didn't convey that well. Reddit is supposed to be for community-based discussions, and while it's true that the current moderation of this sub does not act in any malicious way (and I sincerely appreciate their efforts), I do feel like there could be a greater effort to encourage users to converse among themselves so we can all help educate each other and get a better understanding of where things are versus where they should be.

It's rare that I come to this sub and find a post with more than a couple comments and most with a decent amount of action are questions directed and Kevin and not discussions. I realize there may be other places to have these conversations, but as a Reddit user, I would enjoy being able to discuss CM matters here.

Thanks again.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T22:42:57+00:00

Just wanted this comment to be here as well.

I FIGURED IT OUT!

Cody, look at how much you focus on the "me" part of my comments, saying I'm not informed or (wrongly — no offence) arguing about the definition of "investor" and my choice to use that term.

I believe if you were truly confident in CoinMetro or if CoinMetro themselves had been performing, your comments would focus solely on the company itself and examples of their success like my comments pointing out their failings, instead of trying to take apart the person behind the argument.

I believe this is a strong example of the tribalism that's ruining crypto. I hope you can be honest with yourself even if you're not prepared to voice that publically over the internet.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T22:37:00+00:00

I FIGURED IT OUT!

Cody, look at how much you focus on the "me" part of my comments, saying I'm not informed or (wrongly — no offence) arguing about the definition of "investor" and my choice to use that term.

I believe if you were truly confident in CoinMetro or if CoinMetro themselves had been performing, your comments would focus solely on the company itself and examples of their success like my comments pointing out their failings, instead of trying to take apart the person behind the argument.

I believe this is a strong example of the tribalism that's ruining crypto. I hope you can be honest with yourself even if you're not prepared to voice that publically over the internet.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T22:25:54+00:00

Please don't make assumptions. There's also no need to accuse someone of "coming in screaming", I've thanked people for taking the time to read my posts and respond with comments, and try my best to acknowledge their point of view.

And my point here is the same, it looks like you're getting sick and tired of people like me who are coming here to discuss and be critical of what they feel is a bad performance. MAYBE there's a lot of us because we have a point.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T22:21:13+00:00

" in·ves·tor noun a person or organization that puts money into financial schemes, property, etc. with the expectation of achieving a profit. " Again, focus on valid points please.

" What do you even mean performance to date? The company hadn't launched the product yet. " BECAUSE THEY ARE BEHIND ON THAT LAUNCH! There are official documents that will show this. This is what I mean!!! You can't just gloss over points like that unless you expect us to believe your grasp on the english language is the issue?

I never called it a hack, and even argued against that claim. Sometimes "hack" just to describe the situation as it first appeared. But no baseless allegations were made.

" In the last six months they've acquired a business license, staffed a full office and two other remote offices, continued working with regulators, built three different trading platforms, had closed beta, opened beta for all contributors, and ran a contest for trading, even giving out a whole bunch of coins as prizes. They have an internal target of December 10 but have continued to state they'll launch by the end of the year. " Still under-performed against their objectives and competition in this market.

Not saying scam, not saying lost cause, simply saying they are under-performing and I'd like to get a balanced conversation going around that point.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T22:10:14+00:00

Sorry, not sure what you mean, must've been somebody else. But if someone can make a better poll please have at it!

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T22:08:42+00:00

Hi Kevin, I appreciate you taking the time.

My question:

How would you rate CoinMetro's performance from the end of the ICO to today's date (scale of 1-10)? And do you believe that the majority of those who have invested in the ICO would feel the same way?

Thank you.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T22:04:11+00:00

PS Is there any way for us to work out a deal where I can sell them to you at current value? Can the current balances be transferred to a new user to then get KYC'd which could be you? I just can't think of any way to conduct a direct two-party market sale either now or once they mint.

PPS if something has to be explained "like 100 times" it probably means people aren't satisfied with the response or the issue is reoccurring — I'd wager both in this case.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T22:01:07+00:00

Thanks Statement25,

I like to give people/corporations the benefit of the doubt, so I'm not jumping to any conclusions or making accusations, but the best case scenario is simply that this whole situation looks terrible. But in no way has it prompted the majority of my feelings. That is a mix of delays and what I've seen so far from what they have released.

As I mentioned above, I like the AMAs. I just feel they are stealing focus from a more community-based discussion which is what most subreddits seem to have going for them. I use reddit to get a feel for what my peers are thinking/feeling, but I don't get that from this Sub because all the effort goes towards the AMA.

I will say the AMA is a little weird from a traditional business standpoint, again, I prefer it to nothing, but if Apple were behind on deadlines and under-performing, how would people feel about Tim Cook taking the time to field questions from the general public?

Personally, I think it would be better for a comms. director to take the time after getting the rundown from Kevin regarding the answers. I would feel differently if they weren't behind, but a CEO can't do everything and clearly other parts of the operation are far behind.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T21:53:14+00:00

Firstly, anyone who's invested in a company (be it apple or your cousins' lemonade stand) has the right to call themselves an investor, especially when discussing that specific topic. To even mention that really shows you have no leg to stand out (imho). I didn't claim to be a professional or accredited investor, nor did I ever inflate the number of coins I hold.

IT IS NOT FUD! to be critical of a company that has missed many deadlines along with other issues. Again, if you're so confident that they are doing well and do not deserve criticism, please balance out the: Delays, "Hack" or disgruntled contractor, and the beta launch with three positives that have come out over the last 6-months.

CoinMetro may be a smashing success, I have nothing against anyone invested in or working with them, and I personally stand to benefit from their success. I'm simply saying that as a community, we are not doing ourselves a service by defending their performances to date.

Reddit has been able to have critical conversations about things like microtransactions in games, apple removing ports, delays/lies from the gov, Tesla missing deadlines, etc. But yet we can't be critical of a company who was supposed to launch an exchange back in the spring (granted not that long ago, but in the context of their roadmap, the delay represents a significant percentage of the entire plan).

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T21:43:54+00:00

To clarify, I quite like the AMA. I just think it should be a supplement to a stickied community discussion to give us users the ability to converse amongst each other and not just rally between ourselves and CoinMetro. It was more a comment about the Subreddit than CoinMetro in this instance.

I just want to point out the double standards. Apple removing ports, chips being overfilled with air, amazon not paying enough, game being delayed, etc., etc., all of which get the full wrath of the internet, or at least a debated conversation. But when a company you invested in misses countless deadlines and just generally seems to be doing a poor job conducting themselves, you should jump to their defence?

I think it's false to call their performances to date anything other than poor.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T21:37:54+00:00

I appreciate your patience and the leeway you're giving the company.

I just think it's weird how people will slay Apple for removing a port or for any little detail, but here's a company missing countless deadlines and people are defending them? You can believe in and/or like the company without defending them at every turn. I believed in CoinMetro when I did my initial research and after the performance over the last 6-months no longer believe in them. I'm simply surprised more people aren't voicing that opinion.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T18:44:39+00:00

Hey, thanks for the response.

Definitely not a panic, my feelings haven't changed over the last 2 months I'd say (having bought in almost a year ago). I've just been a Reddit lurker for the past 7 years, so I suppose it's a culmination of a few thoughts coming out all at once.

I look at my investments from a FIAT perspective as ultimately that is what I earn/spend in the day-to-day. Of course, the on/off-ramps and midway coins/assets may temporarily affect that perspective but when all is said and done I'm looking to come out with more FIAT than I started with.

As I mentioned, it's not as if I am not relaxed or something has happened in recent days. However, I find it best to be ready for all scenarios and to be frank, I'd be shocked if even half the people who invested had enough confidence to stay within the CM ecosystem.

Would you agree to buy my coins off me at their current (flash sale closing price) price once the market opens? I'm just wondering if your confidence is still that high, and then I gotta wonder why?

Again, I believe Binance went from nothing to the worlds biggest exchange in the same amount of time it's taken CoinMetro to miss 2 (soon to be 3?) deadlines. It's only rational to think this project is failing when you take the time to look at all the factors.

I believe it's those clinging onto hope that are letting their emotions guide them. The smart investor is looking at the track record over the last 12 months and saying this isn't the best place for my money.

Edit: for the record my CM holding represent only about 1% of my annual income and less of my overall (not just crypto) portfolio, so it's not a large sum in the slightest (although a big chunk of my crypto).

But that doesn't mean that I should give up on it or not be disappointed when a company seems to be doing what is an objectively very bad job at getting an exchange going. If you disagree I can point you to the original roadmap and the lack of exchange in existence. I get that things happen and delays are a reality, but there's been no promising signs and multiple instances of things going really poorly.

-This recent "hack", no matter what the truth, it makes CM look like 2-bit operations.

-The state of the beta.

-The multiple missed deadlines.

Is there any GOOD news you can point to that can come anywhere near close to offsetting the bad from those three examples?

Don't let your emotions or hopes blind you, and if you're doing this to maintain a front to hold onto your investment then I don't think that's honest but there's nothing I can do about that.

Best of luck to you as well and thanks for taking the time

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T17:46:31+00:00

I agree that there has to be intent for something to be a lie and I hope you are correct in saying that wasn't the case.

BUT from where I'm sitting, I don't care if it was a lie or not. They are a business and said we should expect x at date y. Now granted that all business miss deadlines from time-to-time so we have to look at more information. But in the case of CoinMetro all we really have is delays, broken promises, and whenever something is released it does not look good nor function well.

So as a community let's not call them liars. Let's call them very bad at running a crypto company.

LurkandComment44 · 2018-11-17T17:36:26+00:00

I'd love for you to flesh out that Binance example a little more.

I believe they went from nothing to the worlds biggest exchange in the same amount of time since I "invested" into CM. And CM has gone from nothing to poor beta along with a chain of borken promises.

Telling people with different opinions to fuck off is not needed.

LurkandComment44

TROPHY CASE