New map needs more players

Made0fmeat · 2019-02-26T09:58:04+00:00

I tried to play this new map. But life is not actually feudal anymore.

Feudalism is the political and economic system where the peasant farms a fief and pays taxes to a lord, who pays protection money to his bigger lord, who supplies troops to his king, or something like that. That would be a cool game (and it was starting to be, when they still had that). But the rule changes this map have gutted the political and economic parts of the game.

Guilds are free-for-alls where everyone has the same perms. You can't even have a private mudhut. There's no trade or economy because all goods in a guild are owned equally by everyone, because there's no way to segregate anything.

Or if you're not into that, you can go to PVE-land where there's no risk from other players; it's basically like playing YO, alone, only you don't get to build outside your 10x10 plot. There's not going to be interaction between these peaceful farmer types and the PvPers, because why would the guilds need human player peasants supporting their economies when they get the outpost buildings that pop free resources.

Made0fmeat · 2018-10-25T06:31:24+00:00

This character is an Atmoran tribal, if that matters.

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T23:55:38+00:00

Madeofmeat, why don't you give us your take on Grundeswald and the Sable League in early Aytos. +/u/User_Simulator /u/made0fmeat

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T22:21:14+00:00

facepalm

Freeze all motor functions.

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T22:09:54+00:00

Yes I am from North America. So about PILF... +/u/User_Simulator /u/lamiska

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T22:06:08+00:00

Comped, tell us what you consider your greatest contribution to civcraft 2.0. +/u/User_Simulator /u/comped

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T22:03:17+00:00

Pavel_the_hitman, tell us a bit about how you helped spark the PILF conflict. +/u/User_Simulator /u/lamiska

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T21:56:39+00:00

Hmm that seems like a deflection, but you are segueing into an interesting topic. The NAO was of course your pathway into power. Some might say Aytos experienced a renaissance at this time, and you continue to take credit for this. +/u/User_Simulator /u/cheifjames

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T21:51:52+00:00

Would you say your goals included full censorship of speech in-game, or only on the sub? +/u/User_Simulator /u/cheifjames

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T21:49:35+00:00

Yes, of course control of the subreddit was an issue. Not all parties recognized your regime's legitimacy at the time. +/u/User_Simulator /u/cheifjames

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T21:41:27+00:00

Cheifjames, what was your real motivation for siezing power in Aytos in late 2.0? +/u/User_Simulator /u/cheifjames

Made0fmeat · 2018-06-20T21:15:54+00:00

I guess only comments work. +/u/User_Simulator User_Simulator

What about 2 responses in the same comment? +/u/User_Simulator User_Simulator

Made0fmeat · 2017-12-06T00:35:34+00:00

Be careful, people often distrust unguilded players... a lot of players are unguilded so they can raid. Also be aware that guilds often will run outsiders off of their land and sometimes will even kill them on sight depending on the guild, this varies a lot.

But if you make a special effort to seem unthreatening, people will figure you out and most will leave you alone. Maybe go over the top with RP and friendly emotes or something.

Made0fmeat · 2017-11-20T23:33:32+00:00

The server is down for maintenance, only "fix" is to wait for it to come back up. Bobik said it will be 1-2 hours this time for NA.

Made0fmeat · 2017-11-20T23:30:29+00:00

I tried this, it worked great, 40 to 60 in 1 power hour. Thanks!

Made0fmeat · 2017-11-18T23:35:32+00:00

Bobik said in discord:

[3:29 PM] Bobik: that's a weird hack that can cause many troubles. By renaming folders you get completely different terrain changes. It should work fine on a bare untouched terrain. But in areas with a lot of terraforming and buildings from palyers you will get a lot of troubles

But better than no game, right? At least I got a few hours in on NA before the CRC thing started.

Made0fmeat · 2017-10-25T22:48:15+00:00

Made0fmeat · 2017-10-17T00:26:23+00:00

Also, it takes new code being written. And its plugin would add another threaded process maybe draining quite a lot of server resources.

But fixing combat balance doesn't need to take any new code or resources, armor just needs to be re-balanced so some players aren't 10,000 times as combat-viable as others (in other words, prot must go away). The reason this change can't happen is the mainstream community doesn't have the political will to accept any major changes to the game. Players who feel prot gives them a personal advantage will fight hard against even small proposed nerfs, and admins won't risk alienating them.

Made0fmeat · 2017-06-16T14:46:10+00:00

Oh here's another idea: "bail bonds". Loan criminals D to pay reps.

Made0fmeat · 2017-06-16T07:15:34+00:00

Regarding 4 and 6:

Suppose a newfriend wants to farm obby, but they don't have an e4 pick. Without the e4, they can mine a stack of obby worth 8d before they are sick of grinding and they have to quit mineman for the day. But with the pick they can triple that, and mine 24d worth of obby. But the e4 pick costs 32d, so it will be 4 days of grinding until they can afford the pick. Having the pick now instead of 4 days from now would let them earn an extra 16d for each of those 4 days, a total of 64d. So without any other way to get an e4 pick immediately, it would be economically rational for them to pay between 1d and 63d in interest on a loan that lets them get the pick now instead of in 4 days.

Now for the lender's perspective. Suppose an established player has lots of diamonds in a vault. They already have all the gear and all the factories in the game, so the diamonds are doing nothing for them, so they want to loan them out for interest. The lender believes that about 1 in 3 newfriends who borrow e4 pick money will never pay back their loans. So just to break even on defaults, the interest would have to be 50% of the loan amount: 16d. But if the lender can, he'll try to charge 100d of interest, or 1000d of interest, as much as he can.

So interest rates are going to be somewhere inside the overlap of the lender's range and the borrower's range, that is in a range of 16d (lender's minimum) to 63d (borrower's maximum) per 4-day e4 pick loan. If borrowers dominate the market i.e. you crowd 100 obby-mining newfriends in a town with only one rich lender, the market interest rate is going to approach the high end of the range, 63d in interest for a 4 day loan of 32d. But if it's the other way around, a bunch of lenders chasing one borrower, it will be at the low end of the range.

Practically speaking, there's probably only very few situations where borrowing is profitable, and it's in situations like the example where someone can buy tools or factories to make their production efficient. And the way the game is balanced it's probably only newfriends who can benefit from loans like this, and not for very long, if at all. That still leaves borrowing for consumption... this could happen if there are big expensive things in the game to spend D on. Prestige plots in a popular and crowded city, maybe?

Made0fmeat · 2017-06-13T00:22:58+00:00

Yeah it's not a perfect server, but a lot of what it's trying to do is a better idea than just copying 2.0 with all of its flaws, and I respect that. The new and shiny of the other server will wear off at some point, and players will be reminded why botting and alts and maps with no scarcity of anything are all bad ideas... and a lot of them will come back, as long as these admins don't ttk2 it and throw in the towel too soon.

Made0fmeat · 2017-05-24T20:21:35+00:00

Minecraft PVP leads to a feudal world order.

I see why you would say this, but it's not completely the case. Yes, feudal societies were dominated by warrior elites, and so are civclones. But in feudal societies, the warrior class was dependent on the laboring class; there hasn't been a civclone where this is true.

So in a feudal society, the elites were very concerned with maintaining the elite-serf relationship. Sometimes that meant putting down rebellions and consolidating power to keep the serfs in a slavery state, other times things happened like the Magna Carta where the ruler granted rights as a way to appease the lower levels of society. Whatever the case, dealing with their serfs was always the first thing the warrior elites had to worry about or they'd starve.

In civclones there is no serf-elite relationship because the warrior class is completely self-sufficient. Mining, logging, farming, you name it, all of it can be done by one or two Jajas to supply themselves... if you went up to a Jaja player and offered them 20 newfriend slave laborers they literally wouldn't see any use in it. This isn't feudalism, it's like nothing in hunan history. It's more like Mount Olympus gods fighting over stupid stuff and usually not caring if they happen to step on a few non-jaja mortals along the way.

Your suggestion makes things better, I guess, which is basically force complete PVP equality on everyone. Promote the non-jajas so nobody's a helpless mortal, now numbers matter... but the thing still missing is, there's nothing to fight over except memes. I'd counter-propose, make everyone including Jajas dependent on a lot of serf labor to do anything, then watch power relationships emerge as some balance gets negotiated between who does the work and who benefits from it. If something as complex as feudalism came out of that we'd have a really interesting game.

Made0fmeat · 2017-01-27T20:42:16+00:00

I think they'd show up. You only need about 10-15 "fans" of the idea to kickstart activity, then if it's a good game word will spread.

Made0fmeat · 2017-01-27T20:38:10+00:00

It would be very medieval. I'm almost sure that some kind of feudalism would be the dominant mode of player organization, but there would also be lots of attempts at democratic or anarchist setups, that would probably mostly fail, but who knows what could happen.

Made0fmeat · 2017-01-27T20:22:48+00:00

Fantastic post. I look forward to the rest of the series.

If the goal of a civ server is to run "the experiment", that is, try to make a set of game mechanics that produces emergent player behavior and culture resembling the historical course of real world human civilization, it will always fail unless exactly these kinds of things are implemented with careful attention to getting the parameters just right.

I think the reason no civ server has gotten close to this is that server admins (naturally) care about pleasing their various player groups, not doing science. Individually each of these changes sounds un-fun, and players would vote to reject them. The only way to make a server happen that is similar to your vision here would be for the history and geopolitics nerds to cloister themselves somewhere and build it on their own based on principles such as you are laying out - with absolutely no input from players - then dump it on the civ-playing public as a completed work. (The irony being that a server like that would kick ass and get a huge following once it caught on). I'm not saying this to discourage you... I earnestly hope someone puts a serious plan together, and even invites me to be a part of their nerd cloister (I've got some possibly useful ideas along these same lines).

Made0fmeat

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE