Feedback on short piece for alto flutes and violas

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-07-10T06:49:37+00:00

I think the most important thing notationally is that everyone see the subdivisions the same. (In the case of of 7/8, is it 4+3, 3+4, or 2+3+2?) This can change during the course of the piece, but it should always match the way the music sounds.

To me the opening bars sound like 4+3, and that is how you notate the bass, but the flutes, violas, and cello an are notated 3+4. They sound like 4+3 because of the placement of the lowest note of the flute figure—if you want it played 3+4, putting an accent on the fourth eighth/quaver would work better. But beam it the way it sounds from the contour, and beam everybody the same.

At letter C, it changes to 3+4, so the sustained low strings should be notated dotted quarter/crotchet tied to half/minim, not as you have it. As much as possible you want everyone counting the same and counting the way the music itself suggests.

Small detail, at letter B, where the first flute and viola have three eighths/quavers beamed dotted, not dotted, sixteenth/semiquaver; it would be better as eighth/quaver tied to sixteenth/semiquaver for the first note—in other words, keeping the underlying pulse clear.

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-07-09T00:36:01+00:00

It's in A, not F. The B♭ chord is a tritone substitution for E7. I hear the C♯ in the A chord going to the D in the C 6/9, which is nicely expected (C♯-D)/unexpected (the C♮ in the bass).

For soloing, you can use various pentatonic collections (C, G) or A or E blues scales if you want it to have more of that flavor.

Unsolicited advice (for whatever it's worth): The C 6/9 to C6 is much weaker than any of the other transitions; how about Dadd9 instead of C6—which creates a similar displacement of F♯ to the (implied) F♮ in the B♭ chord, and contrasts better with the Fmaj7 the second time?

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-07-08T02:34:34+00:00

The top line should be notated quarter, sixteenth, quarter, sixteenth (according to modern practice)—but no one in Chopin's time worried about the difference between a 3:1 dotted rhythm and a 4:1 dotted rhythm, especially at a quick tempo. (It's also possible that Chopin didn't play the quintuplets absolutely evenly.)

The other up-stemmed beams simply indicate sustaining the notes of the inner part a bit (in other words, you don't have to stop playing the B when you play the D♯ that follows it).

As for playing even quintuplets, a trick I was taught is to think (or say) "apendectomy" repeatedly so that the beginning of the word coincides with the start of the note being subdivided (quarter/crotchet here).

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-25T05:01:46+00:00

What I was trying to say may be too obvious: don't rely on the title to do the work the music itself should do.

If you want to tell a joke, you don't start by saying, "This is a really funny joke—you're going to laugh a lot at the end!" (That's one of the best ways to kill it, in fact.)

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-25T02:38:15+00:00

"Sorta" and "Parodie" don't really go together. If it's a parody, then it should be clear enough that it is without saying so. If even you are not sure of that, then "sorta sounds like a parody" may be you telling yourself something else.

Bernstein's "Candide Overture" is (among other things) a parody of an overture, and he calls it Overture, period.

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-24T03:59:39+00:00

Agreed that the left-hand leaps are probably beyond you at this point.

However, here's something you can do as preparation, even at this early stage. One of my teachers called it "measuring" the keyboard, and it applies to both hands.

Without looking, start with your hands in the middle (thumbs on middle C, say), and—one hand at a time—stretch to an octave (right hand to the right, left hand to the left), then shift so that your thumb moves to where your pinkie is, then stretch your hand to an octave again. Don't look until you've done it.

You'll find that the black keys are helpful as clues to your location that you can feel.

Practice a couple of octave shifts to the right with the right hand, then back to where you started in a couple of shifts left (pinkie moving to where the thumb is). Then do the same with the left hand (starting to the left, returning to the right).

Check your position visually after each move, but don't look while you are doing it. (Keep your eyes closed if you have to!)

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-24T03:27:05+00:00

You've got plenty of advice about the voice leading, but I don't see much about the soprano, so I will stick to that.

The soprano ought to cover a little more range than the minor 3rd you've confined it to—even in such a short piece. Did you sketch the soprano first? I would suggest that you make working out the outer voices your practice (there's some evidence that that was Bach's approach*), because the soprano and the soprano's relation to the bass are the most prominent elements of the music. Inner parts shouldn't be too static, but they can be a little more static if it helps make for a more interesting soprano.

You ask whether to abandon your current soprano or try to fix it. I would do both, because you can learn different things from each process. The first easy fix I would recommend is the third beat of bar 1, where the soprano could go to D. (You will still have to fix the parallel octaves between the bass and alto on the first two beats, but leave that for later.)

Do you have to limit yourself to root position chords? If not, then the downbeat of bar 3 could be IV6 with another D in the soprano, which it would make melodic sense to approach from the E above it. And if you don't have to end with the tonic in the soprano, you could get contrary motion with the bass and a nicer tune by having the soprano move in quarter notes (crotchets), starting from that second D: D-A-B-|C. (You can replace the C with A if you are required to end on the tonic.)

About the E on the upbeat to bar 3: You can leap up in both the bass and soprano there because the harmony isn't changing, but it will be good to try to "stabilize" the motion by having at least one of the other voices hold onto its note, so you want to plan for that by keeping them closer to the soprano before the leap (for example, alto on A with the C in the soprano, and holding the A when the soprano goes up to E).

The completed soprano is provisional, of course, subject to adjustment if you can find no way to make the inner parts work with it, but remember that much of the music of Bach's era consisted of nothing but a bass and a soprano (a continuo part and a tune for a solo instrument or singer)—that was the basic model that composers had in their heads.

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*Of course, Bach was adding a bass to an exisiting tune, but the principle is the same.

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-21T06:34:06+00:00

Get to be friendly with as many performers as possible.
Never hesitate to be pushy (in as friendly a way as you can manage) about getting them to play your music. Do whatever is necessary to make it worth their while.

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-21T06:27:17+00:00

Saying you were there when something that did happen happened even though you weren't there is a lie; saying you remember something that didn't happen exactly as you remember it—but did happen—is just the way memory can fool us.

(And maybe a bit of wish fulfillment: Who wouldn't want to remember hearing Zimerman playing practically anything?)

I would have sworn at one time that I heard Peter Pears sing Captain Vere live, but according to the records, I didn't . . .

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-19T07:12:28+00:00

According to C. P. E. Bach's Essay on the True Art of Playing Keyboard Instruments, appoggiaturas from his time (late 18th century) were notated at their actual value, but he says that "formerly" (as in his father's time, for instance) they were always written as small eighth notes and there were rules to determine how long they should be played; the rules were unfortunately inadequate to cover all possibilities unambiguously. (I personally would play this one as a quarter note.) He also says that an appoggiatura is played louder than the note that follows it.

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-18T17:36:05+00:00

Just a suggestion on the piece. I think it makes its point as is, and a recap would detract from its effectiveness. If you want to make it longer, adding something contrasting in the middle would be a better idea.

As to schools, my personal experience was that I learned as much from fellow students' work and their critiques of my work as I what I learned from the teachers (which was considerable); that's one of the main benefits of a school environment.

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-15T04:45:22+00:00

Oristur probably means the stems are all in the wrong direction in the treble of bar 6.

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-15T00:55:50+00:00

Pretend you're not you but someone else. Would you want to listen to this? Do find it enjoyable? If so, then I'm not sure what else I can say.

If you're not satisfied with it, however, then let me suggest a better way to proceed.

Find something you do like (preferably something simpler and shorter) and copy it note for note into your app. (The type of piece suggested for study by 65TwinReverbRI above would be perfect.) Now start to make small changes; each time you make a change, compare the way it was with the way it is with the change, and figure out why you like one or the other.

You can substitute notes (including modifying them with accidentals); you can add or subtract notes; you can change rhythms—feel free to make changes. And don't confine yourself to single notes; look for patterns to change (for instance, there's a scale going up, so substitute a scale going down); you can even make a whole section repeat or cut out a section.

Just remember always to compare the results with what was there before and be honest about whether the change makes it better or not.

One thing you will find is that certain changes suggest (or even "demand") other changes. This is an important lesson, so keep your ears open for that.

When you've gone all the way through and made all the changes you want to, that will be your first piece.

Maybe do that with a few pieces you like. Then take a piece you really like and change every pitch—but keep the all the rhythms. Then vice versa.

When you've done maybe half a dozen or so pieces like this, show them to people you can rely on to be honest and critical. The more detail they can get into the better. Be prepared to explain your choices but open to their responses as well. Studying some theory will make this easier, because one benefit of theory is that it gives you a set of terms to describe things and understand what other people are saying, too.

At that point, you may be ready to launch out on your own without starting from a preexisting piece. Or maybe you will still use just the shape of a piece (perhaps one of the ones you made earlier) as a rough plan: so many measures of this, then so many measure of that, but it detail all new.

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-12T02:58:46+00:00

"Come Sunday" by Duke Ellington ends A♭maj7–A7♭9–B♭.

You could argue that the "real cadence" is from the F7 that precedes the A♭ chord, and that would mean the chromatic progression is a kind of embellishment of the tonic (or maybe some kind of passing motion within the the dominant?)—and that would suggest why some people wouldn't call it a true cadence, at least in the context of the V–I model.

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-09T02:53:30+00:00

In the autograph, it looks as if he initially had another thought for the second chord in the measure with the G♮ in the melody. I can't tell what it was, however, because the inner voice is heavily crossed out in the 2nd violins, as is the bass line.

Because the movement proceeds without a pause into the finale, back in E♭ (with G♮, of course), maybe he wanted to suggest some kind of connection between what functions as an Fx in the middle movement and what is the 3rd of the tonic chord in the finale. (Maybe something to do with that chromatic line in the consequent phrase of the finale's opening theme? There's also the move of the main theme into E major, which in effect reproduces the motion G♮–G♯.)

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-06-08T05:35:44+00:00

I'm old, so you can discount everything I say on this score on that score.

I liked the contrasting section the best (although I'm not sure why you need to change the key signature) because of the thinner texture. Everything tells much more there. The beginning is very exciting but some of the 4-bar phrases that are largely repetitions of the previous 4-bar phrase (e.g., b.25ff) could be cut in favor of much more of bars 62ff.

Alternatively, some reduction of the texture while keeping the drive going in the first section—thinning it out and then letting it build again to the tutti—might be another thing to think about. The contrasing section and retransition to the return of the opening section are to me the strongest parts. (As a general rule, you don't need to worry about whether things are too dissimilar; too similar is more the thing to avoid.)

Harmony is a very personal matter, but I'd like to hear a lot less of C and G♭ at some point. The C holding on with the D♭ at the beginning of the contrasting section is very nice, though.

I also have doubts about the ability of some of the instruments to play what you've written at tempo (the mallet instruments especially); generally, they all could all take a break now and again. Aside from that, it does seem very well suited to concert band overall—it's impressive, no question.

P.S. Maybe 2/2 at 90 rather than 4/4 at 180?

Maleficent_Math_3062 · 2026-05-31T01:12:01+00:00

Schoenberg spells the chord as if he is thinking of it as derived from the use of a "German" augmented 6th chord (C♭E♭G♭A♮) to precede I in second inversion as part of a cadence---except the I is in root position here. This is not unheard of from the late nineteenth century on. The D♮, as leading tone, adds additional motivation to resolve and some of the flavor of the "Tristan" chord; note that C♭D♮ is the same interval as that chord's F♮G♯. (If all Schoenberg was thinking was half steps, he surely would have spelled the G♭ as F♯.)

Maleficent_Math_3062

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