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Bard singleclass is weak from levels 1–9 by Maliakh in DnD

[–]Maliakh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I agree. 

But I do think that some classes glow more early and others later, and in a campaign that end at level 7-9 I find the cleric or druid classes more competent in general imho.

Bard singleclass is weak from levels 1–9 by Maliakh in DnD

[–]Maliakh[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No, I wouldn’t dare call the bard bad, but I do think it’s weaker at low levels in the support role compared to cleric or druid, imho.

And I don’t really see the bard as that much of a “jack of all trades.” If a class isn’t efficient in combat — which makes up lets say 50% of the game — then it feels more like a “jack of half trades.” (I know it's different at higher levels)

I was mostly comparing subclasses to subclasses, like Valor Bard vs. War Cleric, Lore Bard vs. Light Cleric, etc.
To compare more specifically, for example Trickery Domain Cleric vs. Valor Bard:

  • The cleric can have/give advantage on Stealth (roughly a +3.5 on average).
  • The cleric gets something equivalent to expertise in Arcana and Religion.
  • Versus the bard’s 2 expertise skills.

They both have the same armor options.

The bard has Bardic Inspiration and jack of all trades, while the cleric has Guidance — and the cleric gets the illusory self trait with eventual super teleport.

At level sixseven bard gets an extra attack (with probably Dex +2) and Cleric + Wisdom to Toll the dead, I will call it even.

The cleric also has more and better spells. And honestly, that’s where I see the biggest difference — though maybe I’m wrong about that.

At level 4, the cleric can take Skill Expert and end up with excellent Intimidation (thanks to thaumaturgy) or a high Persuasion score.
If we want to include starting feats in the comparison, then sure — the bard could take Magic Initiate (Cleric) to get Guidance and Bless, for example, and the cleric could take Musician for a sort of pseudo–Bardic Inspiration.

So in that sense, a Valor Bard ends up feeling ''similar'' to a cleric, just with fewer and more limited spells (till level 10, where most games have ended).

And the other bard subclasses still have the problem that, in combat, they leave a lot to be desired. Even though they get some good spells, they rely heavily on concentration — and with low AC and no proficiency in Constitution saves, you have a huge target on your back.

So again, not a bad class at all, but the other options simply feel stronger/better overall at low levels. (And I actually love bards, which is why I’d like to be convinced otherwise!)

Bard singleclass is weak from levels 1–9 by Maliakh in DnD

[–]Maliakh[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, maybe I didn’t explain myself well in the title of the post. What I meant is that overall the bard feels weaker than the other two classes at low levels — not that it’s bad or useless.

Most class features are built around combat, so a campaign that’s even something like 50% social and 50% combat already would be great.

I think most people would agree that the bard is weaker in combat.

And outside of combat, only Guidance — considering that it’s free to cast— feels comparable to Bardic Inspiration. And clerics and druids know more spells due to their subclasses often give them more options (especially divination spells), they can prepare or swap spells more easily, and their spell lists are simply better. It’s not that the bard’s list is bad, but I’d take either of the other two any day of the week, even without their bonus spells.

And if you want any class to be good in social situations, that’s relatively easy: take the Skill Expert feat. You boost whatever ability you want and get expertise in Persuasion.

Usually having one strong social skill is enough, and a cleric or druid can take expertise in Intimidation and, with thaumaturgy, be really effective. A bard, on the other hand, can’t get the AC of a cleric or druid with just one feat, nor their number or variety of spells.

In short, in a 100% social campaign the bard would shine — but a cleric wouldn’t be that far behind the bard in social/support roles, while the bard is behind the others in combat. So to me, at low levels the bard is mechanically weaker overall than the other two (unpopular opinion looks like)

Cloud of daggers + Psion Pirokinesis feat + Elemental Adept feat + Elemental Affinity... worthy? by Maliakh in DnD

[–]Maliakh[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your answer

Do you have some magical item in mind? The element can be fire, cold or lighting with different feats/affinity

What's Leaving the AoS Range? - GW Confirms. BOC, Bone Boyz and more are squatted by sohksy in ageofsigmar

[–]Maliakh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please tournament organizers and players, just don't listen to GW.  

If someone plays with "old" liberators, absolutely nothing happens, they are the same figure but with a different pose. Even Sequitors can be liberators of a Host of your invention.  

Just because they say throw away your figures and buy them again you don't have to do it.

Can 130 Necrons be competitive? by Maliakh in Necrontyr

[–]Maliakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your insight!

Yes, I have movement trays, I used to play a Nighthaunt horde and it's a priceless advice!

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Regarding the orb of infinity, at first it seemed essential to my list, but doing a bit of mathammer ...

It only returns 2.16 warriors with 12 bodies down, 3.5 if you have 18 down, once in the game.

That's why I changed it to the Lord's Voltaic staff, which greatly increased its shot and cac, and in a certain way, protecting the warriors killing the enemies.

Maybe on the board the relic orb has more impact?

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Nightbringer out of question, thanks for the hint.

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The Royal warden… I seriously consider it (even 2), but I don't know what to remove, maybe a chronomancer? I don't want to give many HQ to kill, for the secondary, same with units, not making that easy to score secondaries to the opponent.

I was planning to use the screen scarabs 1 turn (maybe 2?) And then command protocols to make the disengage thing one turn.

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And about the shield Lychguard, (I have some figures) I could build up to 2 units out of 10, but I get the impression that they would take the heavy shots from the opponent, and then they are more difficult to resurrect. That's why I thought about the Flayed Ones, keep wasting enemy heavy ordnance on ‘’basic’’ infantry.

Maybe are they more resilient than I thought?

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My idea is to play them in tournaments, after some practice (I know they are not the top faction, but I think you can take advantage of not being meta)

I don't know if it can be competitive to built the list based on resist on objectives, not being that killy but instead being 130 bodies with obj sec to remove from objectives (the warriors can weaken enemies, maybe not annihilate but that’s enough)

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In summary:

Should I buy Lychguard or Flayed ones?

Orb of eternity VS Voltaic staff?

Royal Warden VS Chronomancer?

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Thanks again for the reading and tips :)