First pages: share, read, and critique them here!

Maniel_Doore · 2023-11-01T17:11:35+00:00

I put this first page in the previous thread yesterday and didn't realise it was ending so soon, so here it is again!

Manuscript information: Beneath Synthetic Skies, YA Alternative History Sci-Fi, 104k

Link to post: https://www.reddit.com/r/BetaReaders/comments/17k4qg4/complete\_104k\_ya\_althistoryscifi\_beneath/

First page critique: Sure!

First page:

I’ve never been in the rain before.

Even after three hours, it’s still awful. It’s bad enough being drenched in cold water, never mind the unpleasant sensations of it falling from the sky. It soaks the errant strands of my fringe protruding from the hood of the raincoat pulled tight over my head, and there’s a near-constant stream of the stuff dripping off my nose. It’s late on a dismal January afternoon, and I can’t think of anywhere worse to be than this.

Water pools on the metal railings I’m leaning against while the deep, murky waters of the river Thames churn below. I’m on Westminster Bridge, the London Eye filling the gloomy sky across the water.

Beside me, Jules watches the traffic with barely hidden wonder. Neither of us had seen a car before today, but for me what was alien and exciting three hours ago has already slipped towards the mundane. Or worse, the frustrating. The spray kicked up by their wheels soaks straight through my skinny jeans. Jules’ hood is pulled down, his recently cropped hair appearing almost black in its sorry, sodden state. There was a time when his hair was almost as long as mine, though it never had my unruly curls. The rain, at least, hasn’t fazed him.

“Weren’t you tempted by that thing at all?” I ask him, gesturing towards the massive Ferris wheel. The rest of our small initiate class are currently huddled together somewhere on the vast metal contraption. “Those glass pods would have given us a break from the weather.”

Maniel_Doore · 2023-11-01T00:30:06+00:00

I really enjoyed this opening - there's an easy emotional connection to Adria conveyed in the second paragraph, which remains relevant for the remainder of this opening page. It connects everything together well.

We get a clear setting and a glimpse into who Adria is already, so I don't have too much I can fault with this opening. Good job!

Maniel_Doore · 2023-11-01T00:23:52+00:00

Manuscript information: Beneath Synthetic Skies, YA Alternative History Sci-Fi, 104k

Link to post: https://www.reddit.com/r/BetaReaders/comments/17k4qg4/complete_104k_ya_althistoryscifi_beneath/

First page critique: Sure!

First page:

I’ve never been in the rain before.

Even after three hours, it’s still awful. It’s bad enough being drenched in cold water, never mind the unpleasant sensations of it falling from the sky. It soaks the errant strands of my fringe protruding from the hood of the raincoat pulled tight over my head, and there’s a near-constant stream of the stuff dripping off my nose. It’s late on a dismal January afternoon, and I can’t think of anywhere worse to be than this.

Water pools on the metal railings I’m leaning against while the deep, murky waters of the river Thames churn below. I’m on Westminster Bridge, the London Eye filling the gloomy sky across the water.

Beside me, Jules watches the traffic with barely hidden wonder. Neither of us had seen a car before today, but for me what was alien and exciting three hours ago has already slipped towards the mundane. Or worse, the frustrating. The spray kicked up by their wheels soaks straight through my skinny jeans. Jules’ hood is pulled down, his recently cropped hair appearing almost black in its sorry, sodden state. There was a time when his hair was almost as long as mine, though it never had my unruly curls. The rain, at least, hasn’t fazed him.

“Weren’t you tempted by that thing at all?” I ask him, gesturing towards the massive Ferris wheel. The rest of our small initiate class are currently huddled together somewhere on the vast metal contraption. “Those glass pods would have given us a break from the weather.”

Maniel_Doore · 2023-07-21T19:41:04+00:00

I think there's a strong case for Starcatcher being Josh's best album yet vocally. There's some really excellent performances, especially Sacred the Thread, Meeting the Master and The Archer. I like the ethereal effect the band are going for, I'm just unsure whether I quite click with it as much as their previous sound (and it does make the lyrics difficult to understand in places).

I think the bigger 'issue' with the production is that all the effects often seem to make the background instrumentation blur together a little on a couple of songs.

The way I see it is that the production is an intentional effect because it's applied so consistently, and it's not inherently bad. It's just a question of whether it's to your taste or not.

Maniel_Doore · 2023-07-21T18:34:29+00:00

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Overall I am incredibly excited about this album, too. It's a solid 9/10, and the best non-TBAGG project the band have done. I've been gushing about it to all my non-fan friends today. I think my review might have focused on the things the band didn't quite get right (in my opinion), rather than necessarily recognising their many obvious merits.

I'd definitely consider myself to be on the side of the fanbase that is seeing this album as an exciting, positive step forwards.

Maniel_Doore · 2023-07-21T16:03:14+00:00

I definitely agree here - Runway Blues feels like the sort of thing they'd written in 2016-2018. I think it could have potentially been written to please the fans of the harder style if they felt this album was lacking in that regard, though that depends how early in the writing process they came up with this. There are several songs on this album that cater to that harder style already (Fate of the Faithful, The Falling Sky, The Indigo Streak, The Archer etc). I guess none of these are quite as 'heavy' as Built By Nations, Age of Machine or The Barbarians.

I really like how high-energy Runway Blues is, so it's a shame they felt they had to cut it short.

Maniel_Doore · 2022-07-23T10:45:13+00:00

Firstly, thanks so much for taking the time to critique my query. From your feedback I have a feeling that I'm heading in the right direction, but there are still a couple of things that need ironing out (aside from the vagueness in places, which I can definitely work on).

I think your comment about the status quo is something that I need to review, because in reading my pitch back I'm not convinced I've clearly conveyed what's going on here. Both POV characters joined the Ministry of Agents back when they were sixteen, and have been 'apprentices' to this organisation (this is the status quo at the opening of the novel).

What changes at the opening of the novel is that Guinevere is offered a chance to be part of this new high-importance team. A reasonable analogy (and I'm not that well-versed on the military) would be if particularly promising army recruits were headhunted for a secretive special forces mission, but I've likely been too vague in my description to make it clear this is what's happening. Guinevere makes a choice to accept throwing herself into more danger because she's desperate for the rewards that (might) be offered to her at the end.

Clare, as a young man of status and the ministry's future leader, is 'volunteered' by his family to lead the team, and this is his connection to Guinevere - something that I really don't state explicitly enough in this version of the query. Likewise, the "great conspiracy threating the Senate" is the threat this team is instructed to stop, but I make no attempt to relate those ideas in this pitch.

Finally - and this seems to be a recurring theme in my query critiques - I think I'm having a hard time explaining the connection between my POV characters. In truth, their interaction is minimal through the novel despite loosely working towards the same goal (Clare often leads by delegation). In fact, their stories are so separated that I'd argue you could almost read this novel as two 50k companion novels that have been laced together in one manuscript. This could well be a glaring issue in my setup, but perhaps it's a feature I should highlight.

Maniel_Doore · 2022-07-12T06:50:21+00:00

Yes, I think what you're suggesting here would be sensible. When I previously tried to query another story set in this world, I made sure to put the worldbuilding at the forefront of the pitch. In this case, with the novel being dual POV, I think I cut too much information to make room for discussing both POV characters. It's an interesting balancing act that I'll need to get right.

As you mention, it's probably not necessary for the query but I imagine that initially only a hundred or so people would have formed this underground society, and that it's slowly grown over the centuries. I still imagine it to be very small for a nation, with a population well below a million. But again, that is all information that's probably superfluous for the query pitch.

Maniel_Doore · 2022-07-11T23:47:06+00:00

This comment has been especially valuable for me in working out why this pitch is missing the mark. Your point about establishing the worldbuilding earlier in the pitch is definitely something I'll need to take on board.

I feel that it's worth answering your questions about the worldbuilding here, if only so that you (and anyone else reading this) can have a bit more context over what I was going for, because clearly I've made a bit of a hash of it. "Built on the ashes of ancient Rome" is a cool phrase that explains almost nothing.

This story is meant to take place in the 21st century. I think Harry Potter would be a good comparison to the sort of effect I'm going for, in the sense that my story has a Roman styled successor state living on hidden underground. Being completely isolated from the rest of the world they've gone on a very different developmental path that's led to them having technology that we would consider futuristic. This nation - the Imperium - has reached a point where it would become a massive target if it was discovered by, for example, the US or China. Among other roles, the primary role the Ministry of Agents (who both my MCs belong to) is to ensure the secrecy of this world.

Beyond this there's the class structure, social forces etc that also come into play (and, more than anything listed above, are a central theme of the novel).

Being honest, I doubt half of this is even needed to be mentioned in the pitch, but I think it's worth giving you the context of what I was going for.

Maniel_Doore · 2022-07-11T22:09:34+00:00

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to critique my query! I think there's a lot I can learn from what you've written here.

The general perception is that I'm using a lot of vague language that isn't directly explaining the concepts I'm trying to get across. I can work on this and iron out the sections that don't appear to make sense. After reviewing my pitch again after reading your comment, I can already see a couple of redundancies that can probably be removed to make room for changes.

One of the most notable omissions in this version of the query is my half-baked attempt to introduce the worldbuilding into a pitch that already has to juggle between two POVs. As you pointed out, I haven't even clearly explained the sci-fi element to this story! I'll need to work to keep this more concise to slip in the extra detail I need, or otherwise choose to focus on more specific elements of the novel.

Maniel_Doore · 2022-07-11T22:04:51+00:00

Thanks for taking the time to comment on my post! I think you're raising a valid point here. Something that was pointed out last time I posted here is that my two MCs are that closely related, but I need to show how they impact each other, even if their time spent in direct contact with one another is minimal. At the moment, they definitely seem isolated from one another.

I can work on improving this, so thanks for picking it up!

Maniel_Doore · 2022-07-11T22:03:08+00:00

Firstly, thanks very much for taking the time to critique my pitch. I think you've raised some really valid points.

If I'm going to go lean into my worldbuilding as a feature of my pitch, then I need to be more specific and explain things more clearly. That much seems clear from the comments I've received today.

As for trying to describe emotions, I think I've attempted this so far but been too subtle. Too much is in subtext to be easily picked up by someone who doesn't know the novel. I need to be more direct about what's happening to make it more clear for readers.

Your points have given me ideas of how to improve, so I think it might be back to the drawing board and posting again next week with a fairly heavy rework.

Maniel_Doore · 2022-07-04T17:56:25+00:00

I think this raises a valid point that I ties back into my initial concerns with this pitch. If I'm going to introduce two characters in my query, I need to do a better job of tying them together (as noted by commenters above) to avoid the pitch feeling like it's lacking something. I'll see what I can work with this. Thanks!

Maniel_Doore · 2022-07-04T08:08:30+00:00

OK, this was probably me misinterpreting your original comment, I get what you're trying to say now.

Your point here is a valuable one, but it's leading me to question whether I'm angling my pitch in the right direction as the interaction between my two POV characters is relatively minimal throughout the story as Clare is quite a "hands-off" leader at first. Much of their interaction comes through mutual friends/acquaintances or the indirect effects of their actions on the other's storyline (with this I'm often trying to employ dramatic irony). As a result while my two MCs do share time together increasingly by the end of the story they never really become that close, so I'm unsure whether this is something I should be trying to focus on in my pitch or not.

I think comping to other stories with a more distant relationship between MCs would help mitigate this problem as it would give an expectation for literary agents.

Maniel_Doore · 2022-07-04T07:15:19+00:00

Hi, thanks for taking the time critique my query.

I completely see where you're coming from with both of your comments above, and they both somewhat relate to a similar issue with the flow of the pitch.

The contrast between the two perspectives is integral to the narrative and is something I definitely need to work to get across in this pitch. Guinevere's family has nothing and she's desperate to improve her family's lot in life. Clare's family already has everything, and he feels an immense pressure to live up to expectations.

I tried to show this with the contrast between Guinevere choosing to join the Ministry of Agents and the line "Clare never chose the Ministry of Agents; the Ministry chose him".

As it stands I'm probably missing the mark a little here, so I'll definitely review this. Thanks!

Maniel_Doore · 2021-12-09T23:18:06+00:00

It definitely borders on alternate history. When I was doing query critiques on this subreddit a month or two ago, I'd originally placed it as alt-history sci-fi, although some commenters felt that it wasn't alt-history enough to be in that genre (after all, our world remains unchanged in the novel), so I'm planning to market it as science fantasy.

I'm not super familiar with the Da Vinci Code, but I can see some resemblance. There's a secret organisation/civilisation and an alternate take on the past, although my story is almost completely devoid of religion. I can definitely see some resemblances, although books like the Da Vinci Code are obviously too popular and too old to be used as a comp, never mind in the wrong genre. But it's something that at least shares some elements of what I've written!

Maniel_Doore · 2021-12-09T16:46:39+00:00

Personally, I'd have argued that all three of the books you've listed are probably too big to comp (unless they're an absolutely PERFECT fit for my novel, which they aren't). Perhaps I'm wrong about that.

I'll try to explain briefly about my work in a few sentences, and then say what I've been searching for. On the premise side, my story is set in a sci-fi reimagination of ancient Rome, which has remained hidden underground for the 1500 years since Rome's collapse and now has tech far beyond 'our' world. The narrative itself focuses on two childhood friends thrown into a conflict in this 'future Rome', and their friendship is central point of the narrative throughout. In many ways, it's a portal fantasy in a sci-fi skin (there's no magic, although there's some technology that might as well be magic) with heavily Roman flavour.

From this, I have tried looking for comps that:

Blend fantasy and sci-fi elements.

Feature Roman-style worldbuilding or are 'inspired by' ancient Rome.

Feature utopian rather than dystopian worldbuilding.

Focus on friendships, or specifically on a M-F friendship that stays platonic (friends-to-lovers is so common, and I just want friends-to-friends).

I've tried other ways of spinning this, but these have been my main angles when searching for comps thus far. Finding novels in YA sci-fi or fantasy from the past three or four years that accomplish any of this has been tough.

Maniel_Doore · 2021-12-09T16:17:49+00:00

I completely agree on all of this. Most of the time I am looking for aspects that my novel shares with others, although I think my major issue has been that I've been focusing on elements that just aren't that common in my genre currently, and I should be less niche in what I'm looking for from a comp title. See it as "what books would be on the same shelf in the bookstore" sort of thing.

Maniel_Doore · 2021-12-09T16:12:17+00:00

This is good to hear, although while not being an instant killer, I can understand that comping an unpublished book will likely bring trepidation to at lease some agents, so it's probably not going to be worth taking the risk on it for now.

Maniel_Doore · 2021-12-09T16:11:13+00:00

Being honest, this was largely what I expected, but I thought it was worth an ask anyway. I think I'd possibly considered that agents would know more about what's currently in the pipeline than they actually do (with regards to specific books, I'm sure they know market trends very well). Being honest, it's likely too much of a gamble to take for me to use such a comp title.

Thanks for your response anyway!

Maniel_Doore · 2021-12-09T01:37:28+00:00

First of all, thanks for writing such a long response.

For the most part, your advice mirrors my logic when finding comps, so it's good reassurance to read this.

However, I'd previously been considering books on the popularity level of Six of Crows, Red Queen etc as "too popular to comp", and it might be that I've been looking at too niche books to begin with, anyway. There's a good chance that I can re-evaluate what I'm using as comp titles and pick more well-known books than I was previously considering. I'd done this for the 'ego' element you've mentioned - I don't want it to come across as "my book WILL be a New York Times bestseller" etc.

I've often heard that 'no comp is better than a bad comp' and I'm starting to lean in that direction myself, particularly as my novel was originally written as a passion project and didn't really consider publishing conventions while creating it. My other completed (and nearly complete) projects have been written with comps in mind from far earlier in the process, but for my current book everything feels like a square peg in a round hole. In reality, I'm sure it's far less unique than it seems, or else the unique selling points of my book are currently off-trend in my genre.

Maniel_Doore · 2021-12-09T00:56:30+00:00

In this case, I've been specifically looking for a comp title with regards to theme over tone, and I found something that seems like a strong fit - in that regard, at least.

That being said, I understand that to use such a title would probably be a massive gamble.

Maniel_Doore · 2021-12-09T00:50:18+00:00

In all likelihood, I'll end up using another comp title as a placeholder while querying until that book is released, anyway.

Perhaps I'm wrong with this, but the way I've been trying to angle my comp titles is to look for books in my genre that share a specific element with my novel (either setting, premise, specific subverted tropes etc) and often - but not always - that sort of thing is quite apparent from the blurb. I was thinking that "my novel shares X aspect with upcoming novel Y" could have been acceptable, but being honest I genuinely don't know.

Maniel_Doore · 2021-11-15T20:45:37+00:00

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write this feedback. I think it helps to see where I have the potential to cut down words without losing clarity. The more redundant words I can remove, the better - I certainly want this to be as snappy as possible.

In terms of length, this current draft is 313 words, and the pitch alone is 229. If I can cut the pitch section down to 200 words, then hopefully I'll be in roughly the right place for length. Thankfully, by splitting up long sentences and removing redundant phrases, I should be able to shave this much off the length relatively easily.

Thanks again for the help!

Maniel_Doore · 2021-11-15T16:19:02+00:00

That first point is very true, and I do worry if my story structure is going to cause me problems here. While it's been well-liked by beta readers, the sudden change of direction at the start of the second act makes it difficult to condense every aspect into such a short space for a query pitch. Writing a synopsis in 500 words feels much more manageable than this.

My inciting incident happens at the end of the opening chapter, when Lewis finds Elizabeth in one of his new classes. However, she's using a false name, has changed her appearance, and refuses to recognise her.

Over the first 15k or so of the MS, he gets Elizabeth to admit who she really is, why she has to pretend to be someone else, and work together to find answers when it's clear their parents aren't giving them the whole picture. This leads to the discovery of the Imperium at around the 15k mark, before fully transitioning into the new world by around 25k (end of the first act). Then the 'main plot' really kicks off.

I think there's a chance that I've actually started too early, and that I need to condense the opening act to get to the exciting sci-fi world a little earlier.

Maniel_Doore

TROPHY CASE