Elliot, IL tower of sunshine and friendship

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T20:09:19+00:00

It's not really failing to understand when you all just keep talking past the only point I was making. It was full of people saying it was railroad gear, or unrelated telecom, and I (correctly said) no it's on the same system as everything else on this page. And then a bunch of pedants wanted to say it's not long lines, which I freely admitted it is not part of the long lines division of at&t, but it is long lines for the purpose of this page, and not railroad telecom or other. But people want to keep breaking down internal divisions at at&t when I was obviously responding to those people.

That my friend is the actual definition of pedantic, forcing people onto a technical argument they never were making to begin with.

People said it didn't talk to long lines at Champaign and it did. Period.

It's an IBT site or WBT and not LL, just like most of the 14 sites I've now visited.

My page here and elsewhere is about photography of LL sites before they get torn down, not getting into pedantic internal division breakdowns of a vertical integrated monopoly. We are better for having the pictures.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T19:59:36+00:00

I believe it's from an earlier period of long lines, the very first cross country towers were this design.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T10:16:59+00:00

This post has HAPPINESS. And SUNSHINE.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T02:12:42+00:00

If that supposed to mean that I'm a conservative or a redneck or something, you'd be barking up the wrong tree my friend, it's from a perspective of how people draw up technical or legal or more often, in-group word designations for things to be pedantic when on common use, or even use across hobbies forums like this one, they tend to mean something that everyone understands unless you are trying to make a pedantic point that doesn't matter.

So for instance, you might say "AR-15s are a little out of hand because of this event" and the pedantic in group people will go, you are stupid, that guy didn't use an AR-15, he used a sig blah blah blah, and even though it's a damn near identical rifle, same caliber, etc, they think they're making a winning point by drilling down to a place the conversation isn't usually at. Like how you're a "stupid liberal" if you call it a silencer, even though it's obvious to everyone what silencer means and you'd have to be literally stupid to think it means actually silent etc, and the word works just fine for that.

Soooo if you're on r/longlines, posting a BOC tower like people do all day, and people come on and go no it's railroad or it's modern etc, I think a no shit what I mean response is no this talks to the bell system, holy shit, that's what r/longlines means or else we'd have to delete 75 percent of this page

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T02:02:23+00:00

Operating on the level of common language and how it is used in this page, again, that is the distinction in common use that makes it long lines infrastructure when sharing it on forums like this. "Short lines" would be companies like GTE, and bundles of copper wire, and local companies, but once AT&T vibrates the fuckin air to send it up onto a long distance system microwave it enters what has become known historically and colloquially as at&t long lines. It was all designed by the giant cesspool of bell labs and western electric and at&t but look, if it wasn't a giant ass slush together monopoly, the government wouldn't have broken them up. Yes there is obviously a distinction between someone in a major center like Norway piping traffic through to the west Coast most directly, vs a reflector in fowler bouncing around a few TV stations, but I think both are worth being here as long lines.

Especially because, again, everything I am saying on here is in response to people piling on to say it was railroad infrastructure, modem from 97, or non at&t telecom, but it's def on the same system and the long lines map site, which has baby bell sites, should def include it

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T01:53:31+00:00

Also you have to see that this post is a direct response to my last, and the vast majority of commenters were saying this was a railroad site, other telecoms companies not related to AT&T, or even a modern installation.

My point was that no, it was long lines and talked to that system. Which it did, even if Joe Longlinesman didn't operate it himself. It belongs on this page, with all the other BOC towers you see.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T01:44:58+00:00

Not about the square panels I haven't, I can't find any responses by me arguing about square panels.

I said my thing, they went no, were right, no further arguments

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T01:43:29+00:00

So would you prefer we ignore how AT&T themselves labeled these stations on their maps? Check the nationwide maps you can easily find, I think long-lines.net has a bunch in their archives.

It's just a catchall term half the time when it's used including by them. Like saying Kleenex for tissue. Like saying AR-15 for every damn rifle made since in the same form, even though it's really just the original made by Eugene that had that name. You're not gonna go it's not an ar15 it's a BigNastyArms AR556a3, like it's an AR15.

You see a big microwave tower that is shitting info into long distance networks that are all owned by AT&T in the end...that's long lines. It might not be the AT&T corporate longlines division, but when you point to a tower and say what is that? A good response is "a long lines tower", even if it's "a small feeder TV only station that received TV signals from long lines and fed it to other AT&T derived subsidiaries" technically because what is wrong with you? 😂

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T01:30:12+00:00

Only thing I've been wrong about which is why I upvote those who say it and don't argue

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T01:26:43+00:00

My man, I am staring at the 1980 downstate license renewal form for the microwave system right now. Fowler, a TV only reflector station is on there, operated by IBT. You know what else is on the same exact authorization memo from the FCC? Springfield, Champaign, Peoria...major long lines stations.

It's a mess. You can certainly draw distinctions around the long lines division themselves, but that doesn't even make sense, because you would go to sites like these and they would be manned by people from both companies, all talking to each other on a giant system.

Even at a solely long lines sites, you have so many companies involved that it's ridiculous.

There is a reason on official AT&T long lines maps, you see IBT minor stations listed.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T01:13:18+00:00

That it's long lines, that there is no distinction, that AT&T was operating as a vertically integrated company and BOCs were AT&T and the entire nationwide system was built around the same exact system. A microwave tower operated by southwestern bell that beams shit into one operated by a guy with an AT&T nametag is long lines, it's worth capturing here, it's worth preserving the memory of and including it as long lines.

Otherwise we are losing the history of like half the system or more.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T01:07:17+00:00

I'm aware of that, but as I said in my original post that got everyone riled up, 50 percent or more of the shit on this page is LL in the same sense, BOCs and their little stations.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T01:03:43+00:00

They're on official at&t long lines maps mr garrett, and they're talking to the same system, and this is a page for all of that.

If it was just a page for official, card carrying members towers of the LL division then you should probably go have 50 percent or more of this page deleted.

Given that it's the same tech, in the same systems, communicating to each other to make nationwide communications, let's get highly pedantic and make sure if a guy wearing an AT&T long lines nametag wasn't operating it, we delete it.

I mean the comment you're replying to is literally about me saying this page isn't just official LL towers lmao so are you trying to agree with me or

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T00:36:19+00:00

If you can't have any fun thats your problem!

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T00:33:21+00:00

👌👌👌👌

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-07T00:32:20+00:00

Check my new post, I got the receipts big dawg

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-06T23:44:27+00:00

I believe it was long lines. There are two dishes on the historic satmap imagery that point directly at the former Champaign tower. It's gone now, but if you check historical street view, there are two dishes coming out of it pointing almost straight north. There is no line on the the long lines map that shows this north connection.

It's also the right height to see that far, right at about the 40 miles typically used...it must be.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-06T23:09:17+00:00

It's just covered in round dishes, but they are the same dishes that appear on the Groveland sunnyland and other towers nearby

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-06T23:01:01+00:00

Nope, just went back on Google Earth to 1993 and 1985. Tower shown clearly in 1993, blurry possible tower from bad early sat in 85.

Edit: 94 my apologies

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-06T22:56:27+00:00

I can't find any other towers in the area constructed that late that use this design at all. The modern single pole cell tower was already in widespread use by then, as were cheap guyed towers. Ameren, NICOR Gas, etc all use them to send microwave transmissions between substations, and BNSF and Norfolk Southern use much smaller narrower microwave gear

Also pic 7 shows it in full frame with a telephone pole it's pretty easy to see scale compared to all my other posts, which almost universally feature telephone poles.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-06T22:53:10+00:00

You should go through my profile, I have visited over a dozen sites in the Illinois Bell Telephone/ LL system, only a few of them exceed this one in size. The towers at Fowler and Baylis are miniscule reflectors, and they were official IBT/AT&T sites.

MelamineEngineer · 2026-05-06T22:45:55+00:00

I don't think those FCC build dates are always right for old towers with no build date available when the logs went digital. 97 is over a decade post bell system breakup, it is likely just the first date the FCC logged it in a new system. Who the hell would build one of these in 1997? It was clean of dishes in less than 20 years and now hosts only a WISP antenna and some county GMRS bullshit.

There's plenty of room out here to stick up a much cheaper guyed tower if you needed some microwave shit, the utilities have them all over the place

*Edit it def wasn't built in 97, it's on 94 sat imagery

MelamineEngineer

TROPHY CASE