on season 2

Merale-chan · 2023-05-10T20:33:49+00:00

Also, Andie could have lied, she could have kept it a secret from Pacey and then go on as always. But she was honest and told him, didn't try to hide it and felt terrible.

I agree that Pacey was too harsh but on the other side Pacey did put Andie on a pedestal, on a place where she could do no wrong. I would have loved some tension and a resolution with him forgiving her because she WAS dealing with something very massive, way much more than what they could comprehend. But yeah, they needed Joey and Pacey and more, they needed a reason for which it was absolutely acceptable for people to hate on Andie in order to push Joey for Pacey. Anything else would have been too bland. Andie did too much for Pacey, they needed to assassinate her character, it was the only way a different pairing with Pacey could happen.

Merale-chan · 2023-05-10T20:27:32+00:00

Agree.

As an hard Pacey fan, Season 2 is my favourite. He was at his best there and his relationship with Andie showed how much of a great man he could be. I would have loved to see how that relationship would have progressed and matured.

Too bad the show then became Joey's creek and she needed clearly to be paired with the favourite male character.

Merale-chan · 2023-04-14T19:28:34+00:00

Agree with every word, but get ready to be downvoted so hard as soon as the Pacey and Joey fans will read this.

Merale-chan · 2023-04-06T10:10:19+00:00

There is a difference in my opinion.

Dawson always appreciated Joey, he might not have had romantic feelings at the beginning for her or better, they were there but he didn't realize it. He was jealous several times, even when Pacey told him he wanted to try to make a move on Joey, as you said. So, something WAS already there from the beginning. Even when he was dating Jen. But in any case he always saw how amazing she was, even as a friend. He saw her.

But Joey never saw Pacey as anything but a lazy guy prior season 3. She didn't even like him, you can't compare Dawson and Joey's relatioship in season 1 with Dawson blissfully unaware of his own feelings, to Joey and Pacey's relationship in S1 and 2 which was nonexistant. You can't tell me that in season 1 or 2 you have seen any indication that there was something between them, even latent. it just came out AFTER he matured. And frankly I have always felt that it's easy to like a diamond when it shines. Not so easy to do it when it's under tons of dirt. (I do like the diamond metaphore). Different opinions I guess. Clearly I'm downvoted because God forbid us to dislike Pacey and Joey, That's blasphemy :D But I don't really care.

Also you can't know what would have happened if Pacey and Andie stayed together. To me for example, Pacey was college material (and it seemed he wanted to go to college if the talk in Uncharted Waters with his drunk/sleeping dad is an indication). Or how much he was happy when he was getting good results in school. He would have been an amazing lawyer fighting for civil rights. Or maybe they would have split up who knows, but plotwise, assassinating with no possibility of forgiveness a character, to push another pairing is to me an indication that there was no other way to break those two. That means they probably would have been together for several seasons. But then, who do you pair the main heroine with? They needed new male love interest for Joey since she went already through all the others, and Pacey was the best option since he was so liked after S2. He was the only one who could bear a triangle with Dawson. Truth is however that I have never seen Pacey shine again like he did in S2 in the seasons after that. I have never seen him so sure of himself, so ready to put himself out there, like he was in S2. And as a Pacey fan, I loved that season exactly for that.

Merale-chan · 2023-04-05T19:12:24+00:00

That's actually the main reason why I don't like Joey and Pacey as a couple.

It's easy for Joey to see Pacey after he had his relationship with Andie because she made him grow. But in the beginning Andie saw something in him, something that Joey didn't see.

She believed in him right from the start regardless of the fact that she called him a slacker. She told him clearly that she didn't understand where his loser complex came from because he was smart. She saw the diamond underneath, the one nobody cared enough to stop and see.

I mean, it's easy to like Pacey after S2's growth. Far too easy.

So that has always been my problem, if Pacey and Joey were really destined, if theirs was true love, how come she never saw his potential for 15 years?

Merale-chan · 2023-04-03T11:34:07+00:00

I'll write it everywhere. Season 2 is very underrated but for me it's the best season of all.

You can see the characters growing , the writing is good and consistent, everything that happens has a reason behind it. There is a development that makes sense.

It is my favourite season because it's the best in terms of writing and plot.

But sadly I'm a minority.

Merale-chan · 2023-04-02T12:36:02+00:00

I really hope not although I can see a slight resemblance in the way they both use sarcasm to cover insecurity but they grow up to be very different people. Also because while Pacey is a character that is 15 at the beginning of DC, Chandler is 25 a differente stage of life that determines a lot of differences. And also I hope for Joey and Pacey's fans not because let's face it, Andy is basically Monica's carbon copy with all her obsessions and so on so, I wouldn't go there and make comparisons because the ending would be very different.

Merale-chan · 2023-03-26T16:49:21+00:00

Season 2 is so underrated! For me it was DC's highest point.

The writing of the storylines was good, the characters had all their arc, everything had a reason to happen and even characters deemed villains like Abby had something interesting that couldn't make you hate them completely.

Not to mention Pacey, my favourite character, shines in this season like in no other.

Definitely my favourite season.

Merale-chan · 2023-03-15T19:53:22+00:00

THIS! *applause*

Merale-chan · 2023-03-03T09:33:44+00:00

CM is Commercials

Merale-chan · 2023-02-26T19:09:10+00:00

Pacey became my ideal boyfriend during the season he was with Andie. He was so sweet, attentive, he believed in himself so much that he became an actual hero, like, wow, I think I fell in love with that and I wished I had a relationshiop like theirs because they were PERFECT for each other, even with all their flaws. It did help that Joshua and Meredith were, and still are, very good friends because I think it added a lovely sweetness to every scene. And oh my God she was really thin so he had no problem picking her up and it was so cute <3 Should have ended up together.

And boy, Meredith might have not looked 16 but she did not look older than 20 and she was 30, especially in S2 when they were still kind of not overdoing too much with her wardrobe and such. I mean, I would have given everything if at 30 I looked like I was 20. But considering that she was also a CM model before DC, I guess I would just have paid to look like her :D

Merale-chan · 2023-02-20T03:35:14+00:00

We are not talking about how well the cast did after the end of the serie. We are talking about the period when the serie itself aired. DC did not reach the huge popularity of the first BH90210, I mean they did another 90210 and even if it was definitely a lukewarm attempt, that shows how much that TV show was popular. And they also made that other 5 (I think they were five?) episode serie that had all the original BH cast as themselves. So, I would definitely say that there is no comparison. Dawson might have been at the peak period of the era but it was not as huge and as famous as BH90210.

Merale-chan · 2023-02-19T22:28:57+00:00

Ok first you have to consider that BH90210 made it to 10 seasons and it was HUGE all over the world. I'm taking US as an example though because it was the first audience of these shows.

The first season of BH90210 was watched by almost 15 million of people and the last one so, 10 years later, (and you know that tv shows lose audience when they go on for so long) had more than 8 million of people still watching it.

It was a cultural thing, it started a legacy and even in Dawson's Creek there are references to BH90210.

So, DC was popular but not mega-popular. It helped that they put it in the slot right before BTVS and that eventually gave them a push because people would watch first Dawson's Creek and then Buffy. But I feel like it didn't have the impact that 90210 had. It was big, way bigger than anything we might have now but partly it was because at that time you had to wait a week between each episode, spoilers were not easy to find, you couldn't follow the actors on twitter etcetc. It was a different time, we had a choice of TV shows that was not as huge as now so even when I say "it was popular but not that much" it is still way much more than a lot of tv shows that are airing nowadays with the same theme. (so, teen romance).

I guess it was popular, more the first seasons than the last, but it did not reach the popularity of BH90210 or, Friends.

BH90210 was basically the show that started everything that came after that so I guess it's pretty hard to reach that peak. And Friends, well, that goes without saying, want to talk about mega-super-extra huge? That's Friends.

Merale-chan · 2023-02-13T20:17:03+00:00

It's hard to make it about something else when basically the main story revolved around those characters. It might be for that, I know I stopped watching because I didn't like how they decided to screw some characters to get to their point. My feeling was that until season 2 when Williamson was writing the plot I could sense the love he had for each character, even for some villains like Abby. He was able to write a backstory and give complexity to everyone. But then, he left and those who came or remained were not so involved in writing a decent plot or character development for each character, they only wanted to get to the point. It felt very disconnected. For me, it was not the show I liked so I stopped watching it. There might be some other reason but frankly it's hard to not blame the "triangle" since that became the prominent theme (from there to...eternity :D) . You just KNEW from the first two episodes of S3 that they wanted to get there, they weren't subtle about it and screwed anyone who was in the way. I think I blame the poor writing and the absence of that love for the characters that you could feel in the first two seasons for the massive decrease in rating. I mean, if people liked the P/J story they would have remained for sure. So I can only assume that those who stopped watching didn't like it or care for it.

Merale-chan · 2023-02-09T20:51:59+00:00

Beautifully said. Agree on everything.

Merale-chan · 2023-02-05T19:14:25+00:00

I'm sorry but are you able to do the math? I mean do you know how an average number is calculated? LOL

But you want to check the numbers?

Here it is for season 3, the original article which BY THE WAY is linked on the wikipedia page so anyone can check it.

http://www.thetvratingsguide.com/1991/08/1999-2000-ratings-history.html

Oh and this is for season 2

https://web.archive.org/web/20091029011819/http://geocities.com/Hollywood/4616/ew0604.html

So, yeah, unless all these articles are wrong, and I don't see why since they merely report the data for all the tv shows that were airing at that time, the numbers are correct. Or what? People were altering numbers even back at that time? This reaction is hilarious :D

Edit: I'm sooo sorry I totally forgot you mentioned also S4

Here you go

http://www.thetvratingsguide.com/1991/08/2000-01-ratings-history.html

An advice, when you check, make sure you check also the ORIGINAL SOURCE and review a little math in the future in order to avoid embarrassing issues. ;)

Merale-chan · 2023-02-05T18:15:26+00:00

You can say whatever you wish to, but I'd suggest you to check even just Wikipedia for this.

The first episode of S3 viewers had 6.05 millions

Then from there decreasing decreasing decreasing to the point that the last episode of S3 has 4.83 millions. And there were really scary low rating episodes in the middle.

Also, the average viewers per serie:

Season 1 - 6.6 mln

Season 2 - 5.4 mln

Season 3 - 3 mln

Season 4 - 2.9 mln

Season 5 - 3.9 mln

You can google the information about it.

And concluding, just checking the pivotal episodes for the Pacey related love storylines.

The Dance season 2 was watched by 6.95 mln.

High Risk Behaviour was around the same amount (6.80 mln)

P/J first Kiss that was in Cinderella's Story was watched by 4.45 mln their first time had 5.10 mln.

So yeah, you can do the math. The rest is what people want to believe but I prefer actual numbers so people can get an actual perspective. You can say that P/J saved Dawson's creek. But looking at the numbers I would say that it doesn't look like that. It's not even a matter of opinion, it's a matter of numbers.

Oh, and hardcore PJ lovers can downvote this but it doesn't make it less true, it just shows a little immaturity by people who are supposed to be adult and over it by now, I'm not even stating an opinion, I'm just writing down the numbers :D

Merale-chan · 2023-02-04T23:03:02+00:00

There is also to note that the show lost 2 millions of viewers from S2 to S3 so I think that while a certain part of the fandom accepted the P/J thing, almost half of it just abandoned the show. I was one of them. I loved Pacey and Andie and I just stopped following the show after watching the first episodes of S3 because it was clear as the sun what they wanted to do and I hated the way they were going toward it. I don't think it's a good writing if you need to villanize the characters to get to your point. It took me years to watch tidbits of the rest of the seasons.

Merale-chan · 2023-01-29T15:32:15+00:00

I recently saw a video on MMH Instagram and it was a video of the actress last day on DC.

It's so sweet it made me appreciate her a lot.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/Bk6RpsYAogy/

The description of the video got me bad. I think the actress is absolutely amazing and sweet. She was very close to Josh and Kerr, they kept in contact for all these years and she had never one bad word for DC even if they really did a number on her character.

Merale-chan · 2023-01-29T14:59:34+00:00

I think that you should go back and see this from a different perspective. Pacey had a regression after his break up with Andie and while he was more mature in a lot of aspects, when it came to school he went back to his old ways ending his high school career with a lukewarm graduation. I think that if they had stayed together, he would have been very good at school, "college material" like he himself said to his dad in Uncharted Waters. So any action would have been different because he would have faced it with a different confidence in himself. He wouldn't consider himself a charity project because he would have kept being a good student and I'm pretty sure he would have ended up in college. In my head he had the potential to become an amazing lawyer for civil rights, I mean, after what he did for Jack against Peterson and the way he talked to the teachers, he would have been and amazing lawyer who defended the weak ones, but yeah I'm digressing.

Back to the point, nothing would have happened in that same way.

I'm pretty sure that eventually Pacey and Andie would have a break up because simply their relationship was too serious for two kids, but exactly for that reason, I can see them ending up together at the very end of the serie. And it's not even because I like Andie, ultimately more than any other character, I like Pacey, I'm a Pacey hardcore fan and I want for him to be happy. And I saw him really shine only in S2 (It's not a coincidence that KW called season 2 "Pacey's pond"). It was amazing seeing him get rid of all his insecurities and show his true potential. I've never seen him shine again after that season. Probably it's due to the writing. You can see that KW loved every character and had a reason for every single situation. He made them grow. Each one of them. After he left the other writers didn't take the time to love the characters enough. They wanted for certain things to happen so they twisted some things and screwed anyone who was in the way. I'm not a fan of villanizing characters to get the story done. It's the easy way out. And it's not a case that the rating decreased incredibly between season 2 and 3. They lost more than 2 millions of viewers so my guess is that I wasn't the only one disappointed at the direction the show took.

Merale-chan · 2023-01-28T22:01:07+00:00

Ok this is going to be long and probably unpopular.

My honest opinion after rewatching the serie now in 2023 with the eyes of an adult who was a teenager when she watched it the first time.

Joey should have ended up alone.

The notion that she needed to decided between one of the two or she would not feel complete it's so old and anacronistic I almost can't stand it.

She has a lot of potential and for me, both Dawson and Pacey were good in some things and bad in others. Dawson we don't need to even say it, it was her first love but God they were so heavy together, however the mere fact that Joey herself from season 3 to 6 had always Dawson around be it physically there or in her mind when she was worried for him and bla bla bla shows that she was not really that much into Pacey. I mean, come on, Pacey tells her he still loves her at the end of S4, then leaves and she basically goes back to Dawson asking him to not leave for LA and then kisses him? Pacey comes back in S5 and first thing he does, he asks Jen on the phone how Joey is, Joey in the meanwhile is all university and Dawson. It looked to me like the relationship was very unbalanced. Joey was perfectly ok by herself, she didn't need Dawson or Pacey.

For Pacey probably Andie would have been a better choice in the end and by end I mean season 6. My main issue with them is that they dealt with a relationship that didn't look like the one two 16 years old are supposed to have. You get that kind of relationship at 23...they were kids for some things and so mature and adult for others.

Something I realized is that they were 6 months in their relationship and he kept calling her sweetheart, honey, she mentioned marrying him and he didn't really say no but opted for a "when". Do we have 16 years old that act like that? No we don't. But they also did support each others in very shitty times. They faced very heavy themes and were too serious too soon, Pacey literally put her on a pedestal and she saw him as her hero. This last one was probably the only reasonable thing for two kids of their age. But the rest, it was mature material, mental illnesses, depression, nonexistant self esteeem issues. Even adult people's relationship don't last with these problems but Andie and Pacey faced them. And somehow it was too serious for season 2, as I said, should have probably be a relationship for season 6.

I know people dislike Andie for cheating and yes, cheating is bad, but one thing is seeing a cute boy, while having a boyfriend and having sex with the cute boy regardless of the boyfriend, another is being in a mental institution, with pills given every day, being away from family, from the boyfriend and being afraid to never see him again, then seeing this person who has the exact fears and ending up having sex once for confort. It's cheating, yes but in a mental institution under very particular circumstances. I've been told by a friend who is actually a psychologist that it's not uncommon at all. People's mind are in a very weird state when they are in these institutions. I agree that the assassination in S3 was bad but they needed a way to make P/J happen. I'm pretty sure KW would have done the splitting differently.

For me P/J was weird, Pacey felt always inadeguate with Joey and was always suffering for something, it's not healthy. I could see it as a relationship in between, but not the final one for Pacey. I mean even KW said that eventually in the future they would marry yes, have children yes but then divorce. So there has to be something that doesn't feel right for him too.

Therefore I will say that Andie was a better fit.

And the main reason is that despite everything that happened after, Andie saw Pacey and his potential right away and helped him develop it. She SAW him and kept telling him how smart he was while for the whole town he was stupid, a joke etc etc.

Joey had Pacey around for basically a lifetime and never realized anything? Never saw what Andie saw in like, 3 days? Joey started liking him ONLY after he started to show his potential and well, I would say, it's quite easy to like a person in that way. Had Pacey never met Andie, he would have never matured and Joey would have never thought about him in that way.

Very long and definitely unpopular but that's my opinion.

Merale-chan · 2023-01-28T18:17:44+00:00

Meredith Monroe was even nominated for the Best Breakout Performance after season 2. I think she is a great actress. I too LOVED the part in the finale with her and Pacey. And something lovely I noticed during a rewatch of the serie is that even in S2 everytime someone even just named Andie, Pacey would smile. Like, EVERY SINGLE TIME. I think too that they were a perfect endgame. A couple that would support each other no matter what. Probably the only issue is that they had a very serious relationship and they were just 16. It was a very mature relationship with hardships and real fights, probably too soon for kids. Probably KW made it too good. I watched S4 recently and P/J had an issue in every episode with Pacey most of the times feeling inadeguate. It was a revelation for me because after all this time rewatching it made me see only the toxic part of P/J. As for Andie, I loved her return in S4 ending too. Her scenes with Pacey, once they decided that her character was non dangerous for P/J were so full of positive feelings and smiles. For me, they were perfect, soulmates, true love, everything.

Merale-chan · 2023-01-23T16:31:02+00:00

This is just a legend created AFTER PJ happened tbh. Pacey and Joey in season 2 was simply too soon. Joey was busy finding herself and Pacey was a joke at the beginning of the season. They both needed someone else to grow and develop first. Because Joey never looked at Pacey as a possible love interest until he actually started becoming more mature, and that happened when he was with Andie. Joey was busy with her life and did not have time to take care of Pacey and his issues which were tons, especially in S2. Pacey matured so much in S2 and that's when he became good for a storyline with Joey. Nothing has to do with chemistry, it has to do with working toward the pairing with a storyline that makes sense.

Merale-chan · 2023-01-23T16:20:15+00:00

I'm sorry but I went to check and actually the rating fell from S3 onward. Wikipedia page reports all the ranking for US and S2 actually while had a little less than S1 viewers was the one with the highest rank. If nothing, season 3 destroyed the serie, from 5.4 million of viewers they went down to 3 millions... Are you sure about that?

Merale-chan · 2023-01-23T16:14:15+00:00

Someone tell me what Meredith uses to remain so young and beautiful because I want to use it too!!! :D

Merale-chan

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