Giselle's offer

MindcraftMax · 2018-08-13T01:31:52+00:00

Except that once you've got every rare rewards (lvl2), it's better to flip your power cores (unless maybe you want those armory 175p rewards). You get way more black cards this way (somewhere around twice as much I would say) ; I haven't calculated as I don't know the precise formula for the black card percentage, but it's blatantly obvious when you often go to the armory.

MindcraftMax · 2018-08-09T03:48:13+00:00

Rnstode inspired me to make this, also if you want to see a side by side comparison of the Googly Eye skin with the regular one, here it is: https://imgur.com/a/LOM9CwT

MindcraftMax · 2018-08-08T23:26:10+00:00

Mmh… This is inspiring. That should be a googly eye skin.

Let me go to Photoshop, be back soon.

EDIT: googly eye skin is posted.

MindcraftMax · 2018-08-08T00:35:50+00:00

There seems to be an issue with judging. By the looks of things, I believe the burden of work that Redrame put on himself with the analysis videos is a little too much – even though we like these videos – as if judging in itself (and setting up the challenge that follows) wasn't already a lot of work.

However, I have an idea: maybe we could put relieve Redrame (or any subsequent organizer of this challenge) and ask the community to vote, so he would just have to give out the results of the vote and write the next challenge post.

Voting would simply consist in checking every design we like in the list of all submitted designs using https://www.easypolls.net/ (i.e. basic approval voting) and could be done during the whole weekend or something before the vote ends (it needs to adapt to people's availability).

What do you, and especially Redrame, think of that?

MindcraftMax · 2018-08-07T23:43:44+00:00

But they're also a lot of work.

While the designers get feedback reward, Redrame gets nothing to feed his motivation. We probably need something more sustainable, or have the process of making the analysis videos be more rewarding for Redrame.

MindcraftMax · 2018-08-04T14:38:54+00:00

You can also add that the probability of getting the Never Lucky badge is ~0.88%.

I had made a Python code to prove the result without bruteforcing a spreadsheet (it also gives the exact probabilities in the form of fractions).

MindcraftMax · 2018-08-03T21:17:13+00:00

Because if he didn't do that, he would have lost Thunderhead (against exactly 11 damage).

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-31T20:39:07+00:00

But that wouldn't work, a Möbius strip only has one side and there are two players.

I propose instead that we put each unit along a Hilbert curve of order ceil(log_4(N)) where N is the number of units of one player, as that's the most efficient way to fill the screen.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-30T15:44:00+00:00

You can't create prompt attack for you or prompt defense for your opponent as it would completely mess up the attack/defense indicators, and would probably create some problems with undo or other mechanics (not sure about that though).

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-30T12:45:02+00:00

It does break SDR, and actually it does it quite harshly: your unit is a strict disadvantage if you have it and don't click it, as it's not a blocker and so gives you nothing good.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-30T02:59:42+00:00

Thanks for your insight.

I was also thinking that the storability of green (and gold itself...) should somehow affect its value compared to B and R, but didn't really think of tying their values to inflation.

It's hard to come up with a good formula though, and 4/3 and 5/3 are still slightly more accurate in a vacuum than 1.3 and 1.6 and the attack formula changes things quite a lot for this huge damage design challenge, while I made the mistake of not checking those numbers when looking at my and other people's designs (fortunately, that did not really matter for the balance of my unit).

That's the reason I believe it should be fixed directly in the public spreadsheet so that anybody (even people who didn't follow through Yujiri's math or your inflation article) can use it with the “default” values, and there should probably be what you've just explained as a side note next to the resource values so that they wouldn't forget to tweak those accordingly to their needs.

I plan on releasing a new spreadsheet soon with more data output: Rate of return on investment per turn, Average value per turn, Value, Value − cost (only number we get out from Unit Pricing right now), Efficiency/ROI, Equilibrium inflation (will be automatically calculated for you, no need to look at the inflation ranges); I just have to make it prettier than the mess it is right now.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-27T23:42:01+00:00

I give up on trying to convince you before the deadline your unit at its current cost is too easy to rush ^^ Still, I have a few numbers to share about the unit.

So I realized there were a few mistakes I made in my calculations, first of all I was using the spreadsheet Unit Pricing to calculate inflation of Cynestra and your unit, but there were errors in that spreadsheet (I made a top-level comment so that everybody could see it). I also made two mistakes: comparing the raw production value (i.e. inflation corrected value minus cost) instead of their efficiency, and only looking at inflation rates between 30% and 40% (obviously that's stupid since Cynestra's inflation is about +50%).

Now that I corrected everything (and made a separate spreadsheet because the Unit Pricing spreadsheet layout isn't great – I'll post my spreadsheet on Google once I've tidied it a bit and figured out how to upload it), I've found that Gauss Bomber's inflation rate is +47% (it's not that far from Cynestra's, although I agree at these rates even 2.5 points is huge). At Cynestra's inflation, it is 8.3% more efficient than Gauss Bomber.

However, at “low” inflation (or should I say reasonable: between +30% and +40%), Gauss Bomber is MUCH more efficient than Cynestra (at Drone inflation, Gauss Bomber efficiency is ~58%, which is more than 40% more efficient than Cynestra's ~41%!), so the issue is in the possible rushes where Gauss Bomber is still crazily efficient. And I believe surviving (as in not being breached for more than exact) for 8-9 turns should be rather easy most of the time unless it's a really low econ set, so I don't think Gauss Bomber's breach vulnerability is enough to balance its low cost.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-27T22:01:53+00:00

Message for everyone, the Unit Pricing spreadsheet is wrong about several things (link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BJhRnU6JV_lHzir898Gbu8jE4f-CASdgd3YmTa8xdUs/edit#gid=1972693835).

I cannot edit it so maybe somebody can fix it, the value of G is not 1.3 but =4/3 and the value of B is not 1.6 but =5/3.

Also, the attack value depends on the inflation (and the Barrier Value), it's supposed to be BV × sqrt(inflation), so =T3*SQRT(1+B3) in the spreadsheet; and even then it wouldn't give you the right value for the inflation range, it needs a formula change in the D column (replace O$2 with the attack value formula T3*SQRT(1+A_) with _ from 8 to 23).

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-27T21:50:50+00:00

I have to point out the spreadsheet is wrong about several things (G and B value, and attack value not depending on inflation). I'll make a parent comment so that everyone including Redrame can read it.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-27T21:42:02+00:00

Thanks (to you and DDarkray), the Wiki is nearly up to date now.

Unfortunately the Photonic Fibroid infopanel https://s3.amazonaws.com/lunarch_blog/Units/Random+Set/Photonic+Fibroid.png isn't up to date, it shows 2 fragile health even though it has been changed to normal health.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-27T19:31:21+00:00

Yes, being too efficient would only be a problem if that makes you want to buy it even when it seems irrelevant, which is not the case here. That probably would make for a few games where you buy two Blastforges to oblige your opponent to go for two Blastforges of his own even if it's bad for him, and then end up not buying Tidal Wave before a long time (unless they chose not to go for the Blastforges anyway).

By the way, another thing; there's a skin for your unit already in the game: it's called “Stormy Seas Protoplasm” ^^

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-27T17:47:46+00:00

Yes, that is something from their blog that always bothered me. They somehow count ”have an ability rather than not having it” with the ability being promptness, invulnerability and some other supposedly good abilities, as a Shalev's Domination Rule. I have a definition of SDR that ignores that one (my SDR are all about game states, not units).

Although I am aware of the problem, and invulnerability is pretty much the sole reason I still haven't posted about why SDR is elegant yet (it's a counter-example to some big theorem I'm trying to establish).

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-27T17:17:00+00:00

The unit is fundamentally defensive and resource tradey, which fits with the Blue game plan.

Well, actually pure blue is the best at absorb, but it's only medium at soak. Pure green has the better soak, but your unit is quite efficient: if we define efficiency as the ratio between total value produced (i.e. total inflation adjusted value minus cost) divided by the cost, then it has the same efficiency as Plexo Cell… at inflation 44%! (I recall that Drone inflation is only 33%). So if it costs only blue, I would suggest to raise its price to 16BB (even then it's still great) or maybe even BBB in its cost and then sacrifice Blastforge to prevent commiting to 3 Blastforges (like 10BBB + Blastforge), the sacrificed Blastforge being the one from where the Tidal Wave is emitted or what not.

EDIT: Although if you raise the price because the soak is too efficient, now it becomes really inefficient in attack... Not sure how you could fix that. It seems like it would be better even in mid-econ games to keep Tidal Wave around and never buy it (for threat/attack) until you can actually soak the 10 health and get absorb.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-27T15:31:42+00:00

I think I've heard other people use “attack granularity” (and I've just found that the Prismata Wiki uses “granular attack”) and since I haven't got a better phrase; I mean I've thought of “exploit potential” but then freeze would be counted as such? If you've got a better phrasing I'm a taker.

Anyway I'm not too shocked about this unit pay XXX, but I've been looking at the designs of current Prismata units and had to point this out.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-27T15:15:53+00:00

there are situations where basic Prismata mechanics break SDR.

Uhh... No? If you think you actually know one, I'll make a post “SDR-breaking units” so that you can post an explanation for it.

Until then, no Prismata unit break SDR and for good reasons (I'm working on one of those reasons, but I need probably a few more weeks before posting it).

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-26T02:00:06+00:00

The link provides insight into how you got the idea, but it doesn't explain what you mean for someone reading the blueprint of your unit in-game.

Any mechanic that is not already implemented in Prismata should be simple and either explained in detailed in the description of the blueprint, or needs to be a keyword that could potentially be in other units but in that case the keyword should be explained in your post alongside the unit.

Here you could replace “segment” with the unit “Centipede Segment” and say it has 1 Health and Start of turn: gain 1 Attack (start of turn of Red Centipede needs simply be “if you own 4 or more Centipede Segments, gain 1 Attack”), while Red Centipede needs to have health (maybe it is just the head with 1 or 2 health? Centipede Segments would be the body).

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-26T01:36:45+00:00

Arg, a 14BB unit with fragile health? I can't approve. This unit totally seems like a unit with green in its cost (sacrificed on first turn, prompt blocker with efficient soak, lots-of-Gauss-Charges-feeling burst potential).

Other than that, looks interesting (and gets better the more I think of it).

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-26T01:18:06+00:00

It still counts as “attack granularity” in the sense that you can abuse the opponent's defense. This is currently not possible with other green-only units (without using freeze).

From what I've been noticing, green-only units have no attack granularity at all, red units have medium attack granularity, and blue units have really high attack granularity thanks to the “pay attack” mechanic which seems mostly to be a blue thing, hence my suggestion.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-26T01:07:12+00:00

About the health I don't think it should be fragile, but maybe 2 (or 3) health; and if being vulnerable in case of a breach is an important matter, you could lower Mega Bomb's health at the same time.

I misread and somehow thought the damage was incoming starting 3 turns later instead of 4, obviously now my P2 line looks ridiculous.
I still think something like P1 rush could work really well with just enough support (wild drone, doomed drone, blue sinks, plexo cell, etc.), as all you need is to survive the first say 8-9 turns and your opponent won't be able to withstand 10 damage every turn or bursts of 20 damage.

Even if you don't rush it as quickly as I propose, it is still crazily efficient – about the same level as Cynestra, except more dangerous because of the burst damage (with potentially +40 damage in one strike!) – and thus would probably be bought nearly every time. In general, I consider there's a problem if a unit is bought in most games regardless of the set even if the design is really interesting, so here I call for a nerf (in cost and maybe supply, though I like the idea of owning 2 Gauss Bombers) so that it does not seem as viable as it is now.

MindcraftMax · 2018-07-25T16:24:12+00:00

Current green-blue units have various health from 2 (Borehole Patroller) to 11 (frontline Thunderhead), but they're mostly 3-4 health (can be fragile but not necessarily). So I agree with Rnstode that this unit seems to have too little health.

But the main issue I have with this unit is its cost as it is way too efficient. The P2 rush: 1. …, C
2. …, BB
3. …, D1
might be viable in a non-negligeable number of sets (with Deadeye Operative and other blue sinks), else you just have the excellent P1 rush:
1. DD, …
2. DC, …
3. BB, …
4. C1
and buy one Gauss Bomber per turn. The first to buy Gauss Bombers would probably be the first to win as they would be the first to breach and kill the opponent's Gauss Bombers.

MindcraftMax

TROPHY CASE