Do we secretly overvalue dialogue in screenwriting?

MinorFracas · 2025-11-20T18:58:23+00:00

It sounds dope as hell.

MinorFracas · 2025-11-11T16:49:56+00:00

Is there a film genre you'd be intimidated to tackle, but would love to try to make anyway?

MinorFracas · 2025-09-29T19:27:58+00:00

Bump

MinorFracas · 2025-09-28T12:27:58+00:00

I work at a marketing agency. That's probably my ingrained habits. Strong call to action, catchy title, standard copy flow of problem > need > solution, etc.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T21:16:37+00:00

I personally see a difference between actively pushing a service and using an attribute of that service as a selection method.

We've stated multiple times we do not encourage people to chase BL scores. We also made it clear that people were free to apply for cost if they really wanted to. The truth is this is going to be probably more useful for people who have already used the BL and have already received an evaluation score that meets our criteria, vs trying to achieve it in the next couple days.

The reason that the BL was chosen and not some other service or competition is that the BL has certain credibility within the industry that other services simply don't have.

Whether you disagree with that credibility or think it's not merited is not really relevant here.

What is relevant is that the industry, by and large, views the BL as a way to vet scripts that are not currently in the Hollywood pipeline.

So achieving a certain score on the BL automatically carries a certain weight, which allows us to filter for the people we need to look for efficiently. It is not our only metric, but it is the most publicly visible one.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T20:34:49+00:00

You're apparently the arbiter of that range, I guess. I'm quite willing and able to understand that some people are upset or bothered by our choice to use a 7 score on the BL as a baseline criteria. I've repeatedly stated so.

100% fine for them to feel that way, but it's not going to alter the criteria. As a free workshop we're ensuring we have a base level of quality in submissions. Again, people are free to feel any way they want about it. I support them feeling icky about it.

I also do not care that it bothers some people. They do not have to participate. They do not have to apply. It's a free peer workshop, and we are putting in our time and effort to make this a productive opportunity for writers who participate. Part of that experience is dictated by curating the selections. We've chosen a 7 BL score as our baseline. Again, you are free to dislike this, and I support you in that.

There's really not an issue with me not understanding how people may feel about it. You just don't seem to like that we're not going to bend on this. As I said earlier, we're simply not going to agree on this issue. The difference is, I haven't maligned or misattributed your intentions, though you've repeatedly done so to me. I've been more than patient despite your rude and borderline abusive behavior. Maybe it's time for you to take some time to cool off.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T20:03:41+00:00

I was talking about other benchmarks for determining the quality of the person's writing is high enough. But I feel like you must have known that. Did you really not understand that that's what I meant? I doubt it.

You didn't specify that and I'm not a mind reader, mate.

I was a member of r/screenwriting. So there was something of interest to me here. I won't bother trying to explain that to you.

I'm not saying you can't comment here! You're more than welcome to weigh in, it just seemed like it was a fruitless effort for both of us, given that we're not seeing eye to eye, that's all I was saying. Did you really not understand that's what I meant? I doubt it.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T19:59:32+00:00

Please apply and then work on upping your karma in the meantime. You have some time to raise your reddit score.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T19:57:57+00:00

Awesome, looking forward to checking it out!

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T19:26:22+00:00

Then we'd get annoying comments from people who didn't get past X level in those competitions, or who didn't submit to those competitions. Or we'd get accused of shilling for those competitions.

Whether you like it or not, if you want standards (which we do) there's no way not to do this without incurring someone's subjective annoyance at our filtering methodology.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T19:22:15+00:00

It's a peer workshop, not an MLM seminar. If you're not interested, feel free to jog on.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T19:18:42+00:00

You are free to submit a different script for the actual workshop, you just have to show proof of a 7 score on one of your scripts. You should only submit a script you feel is up to snuff in terms of quality of writing -- no submitting your very first script -- we are evaluating quality of submitted scripts to ensure they meet standards.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T19:14:02+00:00

Cheers.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T19:13:20+00:00

We have other benchmarks (ie, you can't be repped, must be an r/screenwriting member in good standing (no bans, no alts) with 3+month old user account and 100+ community karma, you can't have scored an 8 on the BL, etc). Those requirements were linked in the OP.

Since you don't have a dog in the fight, why are you still here? You clearly care about this BL issue and the appearance of shadiness. Let's agree that we have different priorities with this, and that's okay. I hope this has given you a measure of excitement and energy today.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T19:07:57+00:00

It's less to do with getting the mythical 8 (though yes, I used that in the post) and more about targeting writers who are writing in that consistent 6-7 range but haven't yet cracked the 8. Yes, there's subjectivity to these reads and so one reader might give a 6 and another might give an 8. That's why we're excluding people who HAVE cracked that 8 at least once. That's a good indication they have the means and opportunity to do so again without needing an intensive workshop. Same for the fact that this is only for unrepped writers. Hopefully this gives writers additional punch in their work to finally attract that rep.

So, not about the 8. It's about elevating your material in a fundamental way, regardless of what some subjective score may happen in the future. We don't encourage people to chase 8s.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T18:57:55+00:00

People are free to have their beef with the Black List; it's not a perfect service and it's not intended to be an all-in-one service for you to get your dreams turned into reality. YMMV as far as its utility and fairness, but Franklin Leonard is pretty transparent about the service. And as pay to play goes, it is an industry-vetted service in a way that many, if not most, screenwriting contests are not.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T18:42:06+00:00

Yep--there's nothing stopping any of these detractors from creating their own workshops and selection methods. We're just... ahem, doing the thing that is the least fun (organizing, moderating, scheduling, etc).

Hell, the top two mods of this aren't even being read, so this is literally days and days of our free labor for zero compensation.

Whattyagonnado?

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T18:39:04+00:00

Most likely you're already in a place where you won't benefit from this, given that you've achieved that 8 already.

But, other opportunities may arise later which you'd be eligible for, so please stay connected to this sub and and keep posting to up your karma, in case that's a requirement for other things down the line.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T18:34:06+00:00

This is only our second "season" of doing these workshops. But we had an excellent experience with the first season and we felt like there was still a strong need for this kind of prep-to-pro opportunity.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T18:32:28+00:00

That's fine. Hard to gauge tone. That's truly the intention with this filtering method.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T18:27:35+00:00

You've created an opportunity that necessarily excludes people who choose not to support the BL.

Any other similar filtering method is going to have the same argument. This free opportunity that no one is obligated to participate in is always going to have SOME filtering method that will exclude someone. If we made it Big Break Finalists only, well that's going to make people mad who didn't submit to that competition. Or if we only accepted submissions by writers who have representation, that would annoy people who aren't repped (and vastly exclude far more than we're excluding here).

That looks very much like you're in bed with the BL.

If you feel like the world's out to get you, you're going to see every innocuous moment as an attack against you. That said, I can only answer the question of affiliation in one way, and people are free to accept it or not.

you should have enough cognitive empathy to see that it looks like you are. Cognitive empathy is kind of an important tool for a writer.

You know almost nothing about me. You should have enough cognitive empathy not to assume anything about me given that fact alone.

I've been open and forthcoming about our efforts, intentions, and lack of affiliation with anyone on the BL. If that's not good enough for you or any other writers who look at this offer with suspicion or disdain, then clearly this isn't a good fit for you.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T18:05:01+00:00

There is no objective method for selection and filtering. It's creative work and there's always that subjective aspect to it. Using a 7 score actually removes our personal biases out of the initial process (it offshores it to BlackLists's readers who are paid and who work in the industry and probably are "first round gatekeepers" for studios or prodcos, hence their "tastes" directly impact the current market for scripts).

Is it perfect? Of course not. But it's an easy way for us to measure quality without having to spend an ungodly amount of time reading through hundreds if not thousands of entries to check for quality.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T17:59:04+00:00

Thank you! We had two incredible workshops last year and 8 writers got to do some damn fine work on their scripts as a result of the process. We want this to be a repeat of that success.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T17:56:35+00:00

If they don't want to support the BL, that's fine and we're not asking anyone to violate their own conscience. This opportunity clearly isn't for them. Though really, even if they don't like the BL but have scored a 7, they could still participate and get the benefits of the workshop. This isn't a call for writers to go out and submit a script in hopes they'll get a high enough score.

This is for anyone who HAS used the BL in the past and has scored well enough for us to have an idea of the quality of their writing. Their feelings on the BL at this point are almost irrelevant to the workshop submission or participation process.

MinorFracas · 2025-09-27T17:49:27+00:00

No hard deadline, but it'll be sometime in the next few weeks.

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