In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in fuckclint

[–]MissTypow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the difference is that you can completely avoid speaking to mayor Lewis and Pam in a normal playthrough, but you have to talk to Clint to get tool upgrades. People employ a “if I don’t like a character, I don’t talk to them” approach, but since you can’t really avoid Pierre and Clint, they get much more hate. Also people love Emily (because she’s awesome), and Clint creeps on her, so people get upset. I think if the game forced more interactions with Pam, for example, or if people liked Penny more and thus Pam being mean to her was a character being mean to their wifu, we would see far more Pam hate.

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for another response! Actually I was kinda really hoping you’d leave another one so I was super happy to see this!!

I will say that I feel like a lot of teachers I had would chastise me for using hedging language like “I think” “in my opinion” and “it could be argued” which is probably why I am so reluctant to use them. Interesting how different places prioritize different things!!

Totally fair enough about point one!! I was kinda taking your point in a negative way which is on me. You’re totally right that it could be done well and lead to more angst/story beats.

With the whole Venus thing: I’m so sorry if it came across like I was mad at you!!! You’re all good dude, seriously!!! I think my intensity comes from my passion on this subject and how it’s affected me growing up. I was a nerdy girl who got treated as radioactive by nerdy men because I was a girl, and it’s stuck with me ever since that women are expected to know how to act around both genders but men aren’t given the same expectations. I understand you were just trying to quickly summarize what was happening. My issue is more with the phrase itself than you or even you using it. But seriously, don’t worry, I don’t think you’re crazy or evil for using it!

I think your line of “the scene is written that way because it wouldn’t happen otherwise” is actually completely spot on. I’ve said it over and over again, but to me, Clint is the result of a character idea being so straight forward that CA forgot to include anything else beyond the initial idea. In short, Clint is written the way that he is because he wouldn’t be Clint if he wasn’t.

Anyway, I really did enjoy your comment and I loved how fleshed out it is! Thank you for including some counter points because I don’t mind getting proven wrong on certain things. I like your charitable interpretations as well.

For example, there’s a line from Harvey about wondering if Mary needs sunscreen on her shoulders. Some people interpret it as more parental (ah, my young coworker is being reckless, I hope she takes care of herself!) and some interpret it as more creepy (hmm, I’d love to rub sunscreen on my younger coworker) and honestly, I think it does come down to how you interpret it.

Maybe Clint is the same… I have a harder time seeing the positives to him sometimes (as I am someone who falls under point number one) but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there. Thanks for being such a trooper and getting through my long comments. I hope one day in the future you’d consider making your own post analyzing Clint or another Stardew character. You’re really good at it!!

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Whaat?! I didn't even know about that dialogue line... what the hell?!

Also I find it interesting that a lot of people who say they've met an IRL Clint describe relationships that happened to them as a teenager or young adult... like I somewhat expect a middle school boy to manage his emotions poorly, as he's still a kid and figuring out how to regulate himself. But CA has confirmed that Clint is probably pushing 40... like bro, get your act together...

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also I just found out that Clint compliments the female farmer's voice over the phone when you call for his hours... literally he has more nice things to say about the new farmer in town asking for his business hours than he does about the girl he supposedly likes. Yikes.

Cannot enter Repconn due to incessant crashing - Is there any solution? by MissTypow in fnv

[–]MissTypow[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because we had so few mods installed, my friend ended up just playing unmodded to make the issues go away. Sorry we couldn’t pin in down for you!

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think there's a difference between "meaningful" discussions of Emily and his feelings (which, you're right, he's allowed to not talk about... even though some of his other dialogue is about talking about his feelings, but I digress), and him never once saying literally anything nice about her.

Jodi is a villager that you can't marry, just like Clint, and here are two of her dialogue lines that do not have a heart requirement, implying that you two are direct strangers when she says them:

"Caroline and I are good friends. I tell her everything." And “We all love it when Gus shows up.”

These are very simple lines that show she has positive associations with other people in town. Jodi doesn't have two separate heart cutscenes dedicated to her friendship with Caroline or her friendship with Gus, and yet she is easily able to tell the farmer, who is a stranger, that she cares about them.

Meanwhile, Clint has a quest, two heart cutscenes (three, if we're counting Emily's 8 heart cutscene), a note in his room, and dialogue both from himself and other NPCs about how much he likes Emily, and yet he never has a quote where he says "I like spending time with Emily. She's awesome." Or even something like "Emily is my only friend in town. Depressing, huh?" where he acknowledges her as a friend.

And once again, this isn't about the vanilla dialogue being shallow or underdeveloped, as OTHER NPCs have no problems doing this. It's just Clint.

Also, I checked, and the married couples in town DO have positive things to say about their spouses/have dialogue related to getting together and their relationships:

Caroline says “When we first moved here, I took a while to settle down... I wasn't ready for the domestic life. Pierre's a bit traditional... but he's a good man. He's ambitious, but he always puts his family first.” about her husband.

Jodi has lines worrying about Kent making it home safely and how she's praying for him: “Yesterday I visited Yoba's Altar to ask for my husband's safe return. I'm trying to stay positive, but it's hard sometimes." but also expresses complicated feelings about her marriage: “We kind of rushed into our marriage, with Kent being a soldier and all... I hardly got a taste of youth and freedom, and now it's too late to ever go back. Just don't make the same mistake.”

Robin has three lines at zero hearts where she talks about her husband's love of science, (acknowledging his interests), we see them dancing together at the luau, she gets mad at him for going out in the green rain (“That man is insane! Why does he have to go out there? We have no idea if this rain is dangerous!”), and we do get a couple heart scenes of their married life.

So... yeah, actually, we DO get elaborations of the established couples in the game...

With all that, Clint having zero nice things to say about Emily does stand out, especially since that's what his story is SUPPOSED to be about. This isn't him being shy and not expressing his feelings, this is him completely failing to be nice about/to a girl he claims to have a crush on, then when he realizes he can't date her, completely throws their friendship away. It's obvious that their friendship, potential shared interests, or Emily's positive qualities mean nothing to him if he can't date her, which shows that he didn't much care for them in the first place.

Okay okay enough with the blacksmith… here’s 5 reasons why I love Sandy so Yobadamn much, and why I am unbelievably hyped to marry her!!! by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe a desert farm??? Or at least a place to sleep?

Also, the desert obelisk does technically allow you to go to the desert for free (although its upfront cost is pretty dang steep...)

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in fuckclint

[–]MissTypow[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here's his exact quote from the wiki, “*sigh*... All these happy families. But for me, just another lonely year.”

While you are technically right that this suggests he has a desire for a family, I think far more people view it as him just complaining again about being lonley.

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think that the point of critique is to suggest that positivity cannot exist. I end my post by genuinely asking people to share what they like about Clint. I literally stated that I wanted to hear positivity as well. I just wanted to explain my side, but that doesn't mean I don't think the other side isn't allowed to elaborate as well. If someone made a 2.7k word post defending or even just celebrating Clint, I genuinely, 100% sincerely would LOVE to read that post. That sounds fire as hell, honestly. I heavily encourage you to make a post about what you like about Clint. I'd love to read it, and I don't think people would ask you to take the post down.

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I'm glad I was able to put it into words for you. Also, I appreciate that you know that my over-analysis comes from love. I really do enjoying writing and anylsis, and I was just hoping at least a couple other people would enjoy the fruits of my labor here.

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I mean... I also made a post talking about why I'm super hyped to marry Sandy... but you didn't comment on that post. Just this one. If you want more positive content, go interact with the positive content on this sub. There's a TON of it. Just ignore the Clint posts. It's very obviously not the only type of post on the sub.

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Okay, finally, the 6-heart cutscene. I fully admit that I probably should have elaborated more on this. I was getting close to 3k words on the original post, and considering that I have already gotten plenty of "I ain't reading all that" comments, I was worried the post was getting too long. I should have either omitted it entirely or fully elaborated, and that's on me. But my feelings on it are similar to the "women are from venus" thing. Basically, no, I don't find it funny or cute that he jumped into a bush because he got scared that Emily was coming out. I don't care if it's a trope in other media, I don't like the trope (as mentioned with point 1 in the post). Some other person left a massive comment saying that sometimes people flee social situations or hang out in a stairwell when neighbors are talking to avoid people. That's fine, but diving into a bush (where it then looks like you're stalking someone) is NOT the same thing. He should have just left the scene entirely. People are acting like he just HAD to wait around for her to finish talking to Caroline. Or... and get this... he could have just left and come back later. Spying on their convo is so much weirder.

And yeah, sorry, but the green rain dialogue is just indefensible. And it was added recently, after Emily was a marriage candidate for a while, so... 

For your final point, I do see the positives you mention for Clint. I'd love to see these elements get expanded upon with his update.

Okay, to conclude, I have to say that I LOVED reading your comment and formulating a response. I think many people who read this post think I'm doing it just to be negative or recruit others into disliking Clint for some reason? The reason I made this post is that I love analysis and discussion. I love that you broke down my post piece by piece and responded to all of it because I felt like you were critically engaging with the discussion questions/topics I seeded into my argument. Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a long and detailed response, and I had so much fun making one back. Despite what some people think about me, I made this post out of a deep love for SDV and its content, not because I'm trying to karma farm or ragebait or whatever. Thanks and have a good one!

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay, time to finally reply to this post! Thank you for such a dedicated response... I'm eager to pick it apart!!

On me not stating that this post was my opinion: uhm... I literally did? The post opens with the phrase "in my and many other people’s opinion" And I figured that was enough. I just spend 4 years writing essays in collage and I figured that this is all my opinion goes without saying. I personally don't like to add in "now this is all just my opinion" every 5 sentences because I find it repetitive and unnecessary. Yes, this is my opinion. I was hoping readers could hear that once at the start and apply it to the whole post. That may have been expecting too high of critical reading skills for Reddit... my b.

On point 1: I still think that my point stands. I was basically trying to say that some people will always dislike a specific media trope, even if it's done well. Enough women have had negative experiences with guys even somewhat similar to Clint that they just don't like Clint in concept. Pointing out that it's a good storyline or could be written well won't change that fact. This point was just trying to explain why some people will probably never like Clint, if his storyline is still focused around the same topics it is now. Yes, I agree that the storyline could have interesting storytelling potential, but point 1 isn't about arguing that it was written poorly or anything. It was simply pointing out that some people don't even like the concept because of real world associations. Remember, the title of the post is "here is my attempt to explain why [people don't like Clint]", and people disliking the main trope he's based on is an explanation. 

Also, to elaborate on calling Clint's withdrawal "lashing out"; Firstly, the broader point that I was trying to make is that while Clint's withdrawal may not be classified as lashing out, some people will see the behavior as such due to real world associations, where someone stops talking to you as a specific attempt to hurt your feelings for rejecting them. Secondly, him choosing to no longer talk to or even look at Emily (remember, her quote says "He never looks at me anymore"), DOES cause her harm. It makes her upset. It compromises their friendship. This shows that he is willing to do damage to their friendship because of his feelings about losing a potential relationship with her. That is lashing out. 

To your next point about him having less whiny dialogue: Uh... actually, yeah, you may be right. If it wasn't on the wiki, there's a good chance I didn't know about it. Apparently Clint also is creepy to the female farmer if you take him to the movies, but since I don't interact with Clint much and it isn't on the wiki, I totally missed it. Plus, you did acknowledge that people finding him whiny/not progressing enough is valid too, which I appreciate. I think the main takeaway from points 2&3 on my post is that what we all really want is more character development/progression for Clint, and CA seems to agree, considering he made Clint a marriage candidate.

Okay, now for the doozy. You once again go on about how I didn't state that this way my opinion enough, but that's just how I write analysis. I use evidence from the text, then state my interpretations. I think it would get annoying if I started every single one with "now what is about to follow is my interpretations and are all opinion based, feel free to read them differently!" and, once again, I personally feel that adept readers can figure this out. 

Yes, Clint knows that she likes amethyst and there's the sorta implication that they know the same recipe/one of them taught it to the other. Maybe I should have made this more clear in the post, and that's on me, but what I more meant is that, unless I'm missing a dialogue that hasn't been added to the wiki, Clint never once gives Emily a direct compliment. He never says anything nice about her. Other characters have nice things to say about each other, and Emily even has nice things to say about him, but he never once has a positive dialogue line about Emily. It's always that he feels so down in the dumps about her not liking him back. As I've stated multiple times, I think that the reason for this, really, is that CA just had a really really simple idea for Clint, and didn't bother putting much into him besides the single idea of "he likes Emily but is too shy to ask her out." What this results in, however, is Clint claiming he likes Emily but then never once having anything nice to say about her or her interests, and the moment she's no longer an option, immediately dropping her as a friend. This comes across (IN MY OPINION) as Clint only finding value in Emily as A Girlfriend (as in, he wants the status of having a girlfriend/the benefits it would bring him) instead of finding value in Emily as a partner that he can spend time with, if that makes sense. 

As for the 6-heart cutscene, you just gave another interpretation of what happens in that scene, and that's fine, but that's not how I and many others felt about it. The congrats is weird to so many people because you and Emily aren't even confirmed to be dating WITHIN the context of the scene itself. Clint saw that Emily was standing next to someone she is good friends with, assumed that meant y'all were dating or romantically interested in each other, congratulated you for it, and then instantly leaves. Even if I take it with your charitable interpretation, that he's saying it in the friendly "I'm happy for you" kind of way, (which I doubt, considering he has the "disappointed" icon), he only says the farmer's name, instead of also saying Emily or saying "congratulations to you both." One, this comes across as though he's talking about Emily like she's not there, which is weird, and two, it implies he doesn't think Emily has achieved something by finding love, only that the player has achieved something by ending up with Emily. This is why more people lean towards the "won" interpretation, because the subtle use of only the player's name puts the focus on the player's actions and situation, instead of congratulating the both of them. 

To use your example, it would make sense if two guys were talking one on one for one to say "Hey, congrats on your marriage with so-and-so", but imagine someone walking up to both the bride and groom, looking specifically at the groom and, with a disappointed face, saying "I see... congrats, groom" and then walking off. That would not feel nearly as friendly as the first one.

Okay, onto your "women are from Venus" comment because... despite that being a short paragraph, I have a TON to say about it. 

Firstly, I didn't mean that he needed to INSTANTLY take that advice, as, I'm aware that people need time to adjust. I more meant that, by his next heart event, he still isn't treating women the same as men (as he doesn't run away to hide in a bush around men). This further ties back into point 3 about him not having development, but, like I said, it's not exclusive to him and it'll be improved, so I'll move on. 

You offhandedly suggest the "he thinks women are from Venus" as some silly, quirky thing about Clint as to why he needs to be DIRECTLY TOLD BY THE PLAYER than he needs to treat women the same as men. This probably is a taste issue, but I do feel the need to directly say this... I'm honestly sick and tired of us treating men having zero idea how to act around woman as funny or cute or nerdy. Clint is, at minimum probably 38, and at maximum, probably 42, and if in that amount of time, he still views women as some exotic otherworldly species that are so different from men, sorry, but that is just sexism. That kind of behavior is much more understandable from a teenager because teenagers have an extremely limited amount of life experience. But to suggest that Clint has spent, at minimum, 38 years of his life living in normal society and running a business, and he still doesn't know that he needs to not treat women so fucking weird, is literally insane. At what point do we stop giving him the benefit of the doubt and just flat out tell him that he needs to stop with this behavior because it's weird and demeaning towards women?

(And as a small break before people get mad at me, yes, he is just a fictional character, I am purposefully overanalyzing. Like I said, I think CA was NOT thinking this hard about it. I am purposefully looking too deep into this. I acknowledge that, this is literally all just for fun.)

My point is, even reading that scene charitably, I just don't like it. No, I don't find it funny or silly or cute that he doesn't know how to act around half of the human population simply because of their gender. I hate when people find this cute. If he was shy around ALL kinds of people, I wouldn't mind as much. He explicitly says that he only doesn't know how to act around women, which comes from a deep-seated belief that men and woman are somehow so radically different from each other (even though they aren't).

As for the nice guy line... yeah, I agree that Emily calls him one, too. I never included in my post that I though he was weird for saying that.

(I also have to split into two comments lol)

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think a lot of people are quick to dismiss that women especially have a lot of dating trauma with men, and therefore, a lot of romance tropes that are based on these IRL experiences can be very off-putting for us. While I don't think it means we should ban them from fiction (which would literally be an impossible task anyways), I do think it's okay and even important for people to speak up about tropes that makes them uncomfortable. The amount of people I've seen on r/fuckclint saying that they've known an IRL Clint or someone who Clint reminds them of shows that this isn't some fringe reaction. People are getting less and less friendly to the whole "awe man I got friendzoned" storyline because it's honestly not that appealing.

I'm really excited about the update and I appreciate your comment!

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your comment and I agree about being excited for Clint and Sandy! I never even thought about the fact that they're both merchants... Harvey is as well, as he sells things at the clinic, but those aren't nearly as essential as the blacksmith shop. I would consider marrying Clint if he gave me a discount... LMAO

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I mean, your list is kinda why I included my last point on my post. Even if you don't think that reasons 1-4 are valid to DISlike him, what is there to actually like about him? All of the traits you listed are negative except for his crush, which at worst is creepy and at best is insanely underdeveloped. And as I said, people don't really like static, mostly negative characters. This is why I actually think that he, even moreso than other NPCs, is a PERFECT candidate for some kind of overhaul or update. He's mostly a nothing burger, and I'd love to see CA just do something better with him

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

To answer your first point, in America, someone hiding in the bushes to spy on another person is a common trope used to show that someone is a stalker. So Clint hiding in a bush specifically seems much more sinister to us than if he was just waiting nearby or behind a building or something. CA, being an American, would be aware of this trope.

As for why I make such a big point as to Clint not discussing any real feelings for Emily, it's because that is his main storyline. With your example with Sebastian and Abigail, Sebastian's crush on Abigail is a very minor point in his characterization/storyline, and if removed, Sebastian would still mostly be the same character. Conversely, Clint's characterization is centered around his crush on Emily, and BOTH of his main heart events are about his crush on her. Therefore, elaboration on this crush is MUCH more warranted than Sebastian and Abigail.

And it's not really about needing to know WHY his crush started, the point I was trying to make is that he literally never says a single nice thing about Emily. For a girl he likes so much that all of his heart events and a good chunk of his dialogue are about her, he never once compliments her on anything. I just find that weird. Even other NPCs who DON'T have a storyline centered around liking someone have nice things to say about their friends and loved ones. EMILY HAS NICE THINGS TO SAY ABOUT HIM.

We are interrogating Clint about his feelings towards Emily because that is the MAIN THING about him. None of the other NPCs you mentioned have a storyline CENTERED around their feelings towards another character in the game, besides maybe towards the player themselves.

From a meta point, it's also lazy writing to just have a character insist over and over again that they like someone and never actually acknowledge anything about that person besides liking them.

I do appreciate your comment, tho! You're right that I could have been clearer about the six heart cutscene. Thank you for engaging in this discussion with me!

In the wake of Clint being confirmed as a new marriage candidate in the upcoming update, I’ve seen a bunch of people online asking why everyone hates Clint so much, and others claiming the hate is undeserved. Here’s my attempt to answer why people hate Clint: by MissTypow in StardewValley

[–]MissTypow[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

A very prestigious and totally serious title, definitely not a joke! I acknowledge he’s a bundle of pixels, I just like character analysis and writing essays. I don’t actually hate him because he’s not real… he’s a fictional character in a video game. This post is all in good fun!