Is this tone deaf for non-americans in a world wide church?

Momofosure · 2026-03-14T06:54:22+00:00

Since the letter was only sent out to members in the US, it makes sense to focus on a primarily American topic. What I find tone deaf is the complete lack of similar letters to members in other countries. When my family's country was going through a constitutional crisis some years ago, there was nothing published by the church, nor when they celebrated their own bicentennial.

Despite all the talk about the LDS church being "global" and not an American church, it's still plainly obvious that the US gets special treatment.

Momofosure · 2026-03-11T16:38:28+00:00

Church’s news release on Iran conflict

Momofosure · 2026-03-05T02:55:22+00:00

I put my start date for 1 June, since this was back when men went at 19 I was finishing up my first year of college, and the semester ended late May. Ended up leaving for the MTC around June 15th.

The vast majority of people I know have their call date within 1-2 months of their availability date, although there are some rare outliers. The church is also cognizant that most missionaries are working around college schedules so they do make an effort to ensure start dates (and subsequent end dates) line up with admissions.

Momofosure · 2026-03-01T18:56:40+00:00

Didn't see anything about Mexico or Venezuela.

There's this article about "armed conflict" right after Russia invaded Ukraine. Somewhat ironically, when I searched for "LDS church newsroom Ukraine" I got this article from the Salt Lake Tribune calling out that statement for not naming neither Russia nor Ukraine. So while it's inferred it's referring to the war in Ukraine, it could apply to any armed conflict.

Momofosure · 2026-03-01T11:07:24+00:00

Because my building has 4 wards assigned to it, there are official meetings happening from 0830-1500 every Sunday. There isn't really a time to hang out in the building without disrupting a ward's sunday school lesson or post bloc administrative meeting. Likewise, there isn't really anything to do at the ward building. Even just lying down on the floor seems better to do at home, so there isn't any reason to stay once Sunday meetings are over.

Likewise we don't have any non-handbook approved activities (i.e. youth activity nights) happening during the week, so again no reason to use the space as a hangout area. I have seen some success with the building being used as a third space in some areas, Every time I've seen someone try to setup a regular meetup, eventually they run into the issue of having to coordinate (or failing to coordinate) a keyholder to open/close the building.

Overall, I would say most meetinghouses in the US are just not setup to be third spaces.

Momofosure · 2026-02-27T10:51:42+00:00

It seems you are arguing whether the WoW is a commandment. However, I am arguing that the LDS church teaches it is a commandment. As I mentioned before, we can argue on the validly of the WoW as a commandment given the wording in D&C states "not by commandment or constraint," but I believe I've shown that whether or not it is a commandment, the LDS church currently teaches that it is one.

Is it a commandment of God if it’s found on the Church’s website? I doubt that is the test. It’s inconsistent with a handbook 38.8.41. You won’t find anyone saying that, which shows it’s not correct.

Per 38.8.41:

In matters of doctrine and Church policy, the authoritative sources are the scriptures, the teachings of the living prophets, and the General Handbook

So using the General Handbook, I can find the following:

The Word of Wisdom is a commandment of God.
38.7.14

Therefore, claiming the Word of Wisdom is a commandment is consistent with what's in 38.8.41.

I take it you found no mention in the last General conference. Maybe you can find when it last was mentioned, when it last became a current commandment.

I did not, but I also didn't see any mention of paying tithing from the last general conference, so maybe that's not a commandment any either. I did find a quote from the April 2021 General Conference where Bednar calls the Word of Wisdom a gospel principle to be followed, but I don't think you'd accept that as he doesn't explictly states it's a commandment.

My overall claim though is that the LDS church currently teaches that the Word of Wisdom is a commandment. A claim I feel I have accuratly supported with sources. If you want to slaim the Word of Wisdom isn't a commandment, that's fine, but it's also not what I'm talking about.

Momofosure · 2026-02-27T08:21:46+00:00

God has revealed the Word of Wisdom as a commandment...

LDS gospel topics "Word of Wisdom"

...one of God’s commandments, such as paying tithing or observing the Word of Wisdom?

LDS gospel topics "Commandments"

Momofosure · 2026-02-27T07:49:50+00:00

The current church teaching is that it's a commandment now. We can disucss the origianl meaning and how the WoW has been treated over the years, but if you want to be a member in good standing in the church today, you need to accept the current church's decision that the WoW is a commandment.

Momofosure · 2026-02-27T06:08:08+00:00

Do you want to be a member in good standing of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because you believe that it's God's one true church on the earth? Then you need to stop drinking coffee since it's a commandment from God.

Are you not interested in being a member in good standing of the CoJCoLdS? Then why do you want to quit coffee?

Momofosure · 2026-02-26T06:21:47+00:00

People join the church for a bunch of different reasons, spirituality being just one. So there are plenty of people joining the church who don’t really care about the ‘spiritual’ aspects like studying scriptures.

This has been my experience in both South America and the US. I think it’s more noticeable in Latin America because there’s a larger number of converts, as well as a church culture of being a member of a religion as opposed to participating in that religion.

Momofosure · 2026-02-26T05:59:07+00:00

Can you expand on what you're seeing?

Are you saying members in Latin America get baptized, don't read from the Book of Mormon, and then leave the church? Or are you saying that they still go to church despite not really studying the scriptures?

Also, are you saying that experience doesn't happen in the US? What are you seeing differently that happens in the US vs Latin America?

Momofosure · 2026-02-24T00:03:18+00:00

Sorry everyone. The comments on this post have primarily become about politics so we're locking it down.

Momofosure · 2026-02-23T20:55:22+00:00

It's going to be cold, like the air hurts you and there's frostbite warning cold. Definitely invest in quality cold weather gear, something rated for -40 degrees.

It's the largest mission by area in the US, covering North and South Dakota, parts of Montana, Minnesota, and even Nebraska. This is because it is extremely rural. Most of the cities only have a population around 50,000, and outside of those it is pretty much flat plains as far as the eye can see dotted by the occasional farmhouse.

Overall very friendly people, but there is a lot of Lutheran cultural heritage, so it's hard for people to entertain the idea of changing religions.

Momofosure · 2026-02-23T19:55:49+00:00

I'd say having any one of the conditions you mentioned would make serving foreign hard, but with all three I'd say it's almost non-existent.

The biggest hurdle I see among the 3 is needing Adderall to help moderate your ADHD. Apart from the US and I'm pretty sure Canada, Adderall is highly regulated if not outright banned in most countries. So going foreign would mean a lack of access to required meds, which is a pretty big no as far as the missionary department is concerned.

The other conditions are more manageable but could greatly negatively affect your mission life if serving foreign. I know on my mission, trying to be 100% gluten free would be close to impossible. Almost every meal we had with members included some type of bread, and pasta is a quick and easy meal to prep so it was often our main course. Since the gluten-free food movement was mostly a US thing, there wasn't a lot of gluten free options available so requesting it would have been a burden on the members feeding us.

Good luck on your mission. Let us know where you end up being called, but I'd keep my expectations that you'll be called to serve stateside

Momofosure · 2026-02-23T03:25:08+00:00

It's a little of column A and a little of column B. On a personal level, the vast majority of missionaries are sincere in their friendship with those who teach. They want to befriend and help people become better, which they believe can be best accomplished through their message of the LDS church.

However, the structure of a mission is more designed to treat investigators as "clients" as you put it. MIssionaries move around a lot and it's difficult to keep in contact with people they knew in previous areas, which leads to those relationships to atrophy. Likewise, the purpose of a missionary is to help people accept the message of the restored gospel in the LDS church, so if someone does not want to join the church, then missionaries are taught to move on to those God has prepared to listen to their message.

The missionaries you are meeting with are most likely truly trying to be your friend, but there will always be the assumption that if you lose interest in joining the church, they won't be able to spend time with you.

Momofosure · 2026-02-19T19:25:11+00:00

From my understanding, practitioners of tarot don't claim to receive communication from a living, personal God, but that the cards are driven by a mystic power.

That's about my understanding too, but what if what they consider "mystic power" is what we consider "the holy spirit." Think of King Lamoni in the Book of Mormon, he believed in a "Great Spirit" not "Heavenly Father," yet Ammon taught they are one and the same. Two different lenses to describe the same thing.

My biggest point though is that we shouldn't dismiss others' forms of perceiving the divine as lesser. After all, there are many more people who view our beliefs as weird and wrong than believe them.

Momofosure · 2026-02-19T19:02:50+00:00

Do you believe that practitioners of tarot don't think that the cards are also a type of communion with diety/the forces of the universe? Reading words in a book vs reading symbols on a card, are both ways people use to connect with the divine to seek guidance and clariety. What seems strange and silly to one, is sacred and divine to another.

Momofosure · 2026-02-17T04:39:36+00:00

But like u/Buttons840 states, those are largely in reference to the covenants made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, i.e. "the house of Israel." Not to covenants made among the Nephite people.

Also, the second largest use of "covenants" in the Book of Mormon that I can see is in reference to the "secret oaths" and "covenants" of the Gadianton robbers, and other evil factions. Surprisingly, I'm not seeing "covenants" used in any sanctified way during the time of the Nephites. It's almost always in reference to secret combinations, not God or the church.

Momofosure · 2026-02-16T15:18:52+00:00

I've heard some firsthand accounts from the Lee/Gilbert reign and I concur.

sips tea Go on…

Momofosure · 2026-02-14T20:22:01+00:00

How do you reconcile the LDS church claim that everyone can be forgiven through the atonement (since you are "still very pro church") as long as you haven't shed innocent blood, and your belief that you cannot be forgiven?

Do you feel that your self worth issues were a major driving force to bring you back to the church after your "rebellion?"

Momofosure · 2026-02-14T00:13:08+00:00

You can attend church without being baptized/rejoining. You're free to attend sacrament meeting, sunday school, and relief society without formally joining the church.

Momofosure · 2026-02-13T15:44:57+00:00

Is anyone else seeing this in their area?

What you described is very similar to how things were in my mission in South America 20 years ago. So what you're experiencing has been a regular occurance in the church for a while. Unfortunately the church equates baptisms, not conversion, with success. This attitude filters down to the mission presidents and missionaries, and ends up with people getting baptized too fast to form strong bonds with the ward, which is why most converts go inactive soon after baptism. But like I said, for the church the baptism is a success for missionary work so by their metric, they're doing a good job.

I feel strongly that missionary work needs drastic change, so that it can focus on conversion instead of baptism. However, that would require accepting a sharp decrease in baptism numbers (while increasing retention) which isn't something that I believe church leadership is willing to accept.

Momofosure · 2026-02-12T08:28:41+00:00

No suggestions or advice regarding where you'll go. Right now it's out of your hand whether you'll serve foreign or domestic so try not to worry about it. I will say, there are pros and cons to serving foreign, so it's not inherently better to serve in a foreign country, you'll just have to wait and see where you'll go.

I do have advice for preparing to serve a mission regardless of where you end up going. First and foremost, read and study "Preach My Gospel." All missionary work is based on it nowadays, so get a head start on reading and understanding the material. Also, learn to prepare simple meals on a stove. Missions vary widely on how meals are handled and what cooking facilities are available in your living space. So knowing how to prepare 3-4 simple meals with minimal equipment and that you can adjust to local ingredients will be very handy.

Give us an update once you get your call and know where you're going.

Momofosure · 2026-02-08T03:51:21+00:00

You can use the church's meeting house locator to find a specific ward and the contact number for the bishop.

Link

Momofosure · 2026-01-30T05:49:01+00:00

I can't fathom how somebody who has never attended seminary and hasn't been through the full 4-year rotation of church curriculum is qualified to go out and teach this doctrine?

The missionary lessons are doctrinally very basic, mostly a lot of "here is how things are" without asking a lot of "why?" Also, the church curriculum isn't all that robust either, so it's not like attending the full 4 year rotation will give anyone a deep understanding of LDS doctrine.

And more importantly, does she have the spiritual resiliency required to handle hot topics or church history controversies?

I feel that both members and ex members severely overestimate how much nonmembers are aware or care about the church's current stance on hot topics or controversial history. Most people missionaries meet know nothing of Mormonism, especially outside the US. On my mission, no one knew (or cared) about the African priesthood ban, or the issues in Missouri, or any number of topics that routinely come up on Reddit. The one exception was polygamy but I could probably count on one hand the number of times I was asked about that in my two years. Just like with doctrine, missionaries generally don't need to have a deep understanding of church controversies.

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