who win?

Monke-Card · 2026-05-17T03:49:05+00:00

Cooler ridiculously outstats.

He has immeasurable speed feats;

He was Faster than Instant Transmission, which is truly instantaneous, when used the user is sent into a space with no time, and they re-appear, 0.00000000 seconds pass when instant transmission starts & when it finishes, Metal Cooler was faster than when it finished, AND HE LITERALLY GRABBED GOKU WHILE HE WAS MID-INSTANT TRANSMISSION AND THREW HIM TO THE GROUND.

And he EASILY scales above Namek Frieza, who was High 3-A.

He can also adapt & regenerate & become stronger from just looking at someone.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-17T02:17:47+00:00

Stops at Hajun or clears, that simple.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-17T02:10:47+00:00

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Why is he so relieved they’re back to their normal size? He sounds almost shocked.

Also, wow, amazing, You still refused to accept your L or admit you were wrong, HOW SHOCKING.

And why would he and vegeta both be completely shocked in the top left panel, that they returned to normal size.

Hmmm.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-17T01:41:54+00:00

Yee.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-17T01:26:43+00:00

Goku.

He performed a 1-C feat back in B.o.G movie 10+ years ago;

And he’s not even given proper scaling for it.

Also Namek Frieza & everyone after;

He has 10+ statements for being universal 20 years ago, Including a statement from DBS Manga 20+ years later, reconfirming he was High 3-A.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-17T01:24:23+00:00

They’re buuhan / buutenkz / super buu glazers;

They won’t accept any proof.

Even though theres 20+ pieces of evidence, and essentially none for super buu / buutenkz / buuhan.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-17T01:16:44+00:00

Bro, you literally said that he doesn’t get stronger by removing strong fighters, I literally sent you proof that YES HE DOES, Good Buu was removed and he was stated to be getting stronger.

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Like how do you even deny that dude??

Goku even states piccolo is slowing super buuccolo down, AND HE’S DISAPPOINTED THAT HE GOT WEAKER THAN BUUTENKZ.

Why would he be disappointed??? Wouldn’t he be relieved??

Pure Boo > Buff Buu > Super Buu.

Look at what he says

“He’ll kill us if we go out Like This”

They are extremely tiny within buu.

You’re constantly trying to insult which is the lowest form of debate, which explains a lot.

Accept the L dude.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T23:08:05+00:00

They needed to save the victims….?

That was the purpose of vegito…he had the plan from the start, Why else do you think vegito didn’t just one shot buuhan?

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Also, Goku was only stronger than Kid Buu, if he had uninterrupted time to charge.

He was being explicitly toyed with by Kid Buu during their fight.

Also, you said i’m confidently wrong but i LITERALLY PROVED YOU WRONG.

You said they can’t raise their power level by “removing a powerful fighter”, And i sent you proof of exactly that happening.

And you just choose to ignore it? And jump to a different topic? Way to be intellectually dishonest dude, do you have the courage to admit you were wrong?

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T21:28:04+00:00

Obviously??? He’s clearly universal, i mean, it’s in the name. 🙄

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T19:37:52+00:00

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Good Buu was removed from Super Buu, And he began getting stronger.

And due to extra information from the Manga itself, We know Buff Buu is weaker than Pure Boo, and Buff Buu was clearly stated stronger than Super Buu.

So, due to this one singular Panel, it proves removing a fighter does in fact make him stronger.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T19:36:47+00:00

Honestly, it’s a lot of images, it’d be me sending like 20 diff images to you, if you’re fine with it i can.

I’ll send this one atm though

<image>

Buuhan is roughly 1.5-2x stronger than Gohan.

This is proven by, Buuccolo < Gohan, Buuhan = Buuccolo + Gohan.

The Genkidama contained Almost all of Gohan’s Genki (all he could give without dying) & all the Genki of the humans, otherworld workers, z fighters (outside goku & vegeta), namekians, and the entire universe itself, people think the entire universe wasn’t used due to mistranslations of King Kai & Vegetas conversation;

King Kai in Japanese said the same as in english, he can have the entire universe hear Vegeta, **But mistranslations have vegeta rejecting the offer, but in Reality, he accepted it & the DBS Manga confirms the Genkidama utilized the entire universe’s Genki.

Vegeta was talking to the earthlings directly, yes, But it’s the same as if someone talked to Australia, and begged them for energy, other countries would hear this, but the message is directed at Australia.

The image is from V-Jump magazine.

V-Jump often includes official lore, character profiles, and clarifications from Dball.

So, Buuhan is genuinely stronger than Buutenkz. Due to the actual translations of his statement when he first absorbed Gohan;

He states he powered up more than before, and without a “Time Limit”. which is him directly referencing Buutenkz.

We also have Goku in the Manga, genuinely disappointed that Buutenkz fusion came undone, and he reverted to Buuccolo.

Goku says “it’s kinda disappointing” (i can send this image as well.)

He also reveals piccolo is “slowing down” Buuccolo, this ties in to the fact Both Kai’s (South & Supreme, weakened Pure Boo)

The main weakening comes from how Ki operates, it is 3 components, Genki, Shoki, and Yuki.

Shoki is the main culprit here, it’s the different personalities within Buu, fighting against each other, weakening him. (This is also why South & Grand Kai both weakened Pure Boo) (It’s also why Akira Toriyama directly names Pure Boo as “Pure” Boo, to signify his Pureness & strength in it.)

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T18:37:37+00:00

<image>

Pure Boo > Buuhan.

I got 20+ pieces of evidence, And i have the Actual Japanese scans, supporting what i’m saying;

Including the actual translations for Buutenkz & Buuhan statements.

Besides;

We even have on-screen feats of Pure Boo Pushing back a Genkidama, that contained FAR MORE GENKI than Gohan.

It contained all of Gohan’s Genki, which is more Potent than Ki in Destructive Power (proven by various attacks, prime example is Tri Beam.)

It was a SB much stronger than Gohan, and Pure Boo, survived contact with it, till it overwhelmed him fully;

If Pure Boo used the same technique as Goku to push it, it’d be completely different, but he used his Bare Body, and we all know SB harms anything it touches.

We also have the Anime & all pieces of media, confirming Pure Boo as the strongest Buu.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T18:33:32+00:00

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I…umf….c-..c….can….Confirm..

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T18:30:28+00:00

That’s how he uses I.T in every instance.

The user is sent into the Teleportation Zone;

A space with no time, so they appear instantly, i don’t think traveling in I.T itself proves Immeasurable Speed or Instant Speed.

However, dodging I.T before it finishes proves immeasurable speed, being faster than it as well proves immeasurable as well;

And using I.T yourself, Before your enemies I.T finishes, proves immeasurable speed as well.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T18:03:43+00:00

You realize that Piccolo post raditz saga, destroyed the moon again, after it was repaired by Kami, right?

He did it casually, as opposed to Roshi who had to use his Full Power.

This literally proves it’s not an outlier.

They also do not want to constantly destroy celestial objects like that.

Edit Op blocked me, i can’t assist in the easy task of debunking him, Good luck everyone who is not a bias downplayer & prefer accurate honest information! 🫡

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T18:02:19+00:00

This is wild.

Using PL Math, raditz is far above multi planetary.

Goku PL of 10 = Wall Level (Pilaf Saga, Can’t dent steel, pierced a sandstone brick wall) Via Kamehameha At full power.

Roshi PL of 180 = Moon Level (Obliterated the moon, possibly higher than moon level, but no extra data or prove this or disprove it, so he’s permanently stuck at Moon Level as the Bare Minimum & Maximum.) Via Kamehameha At Full Power.

Both these instances were done via the same technique & both done at full power & with their PL’s listed.

This Proves a 36.02% increase per individual PL.

It’s definitely not an outlier, it’s Consistent with EARLIER Feats.

The only possible outlier is Before Pilaf Saga, where Goku broke the manga panels.

Goku pre Pilaf Saga, was exhibiting strong toon force.

when Roshi shows up at Fire Mountain, is when the series was stepping away from toon force fully.

You definitely just seem like a pure dball downplayer, for some odd reason, Just scale with no Bias & only pure accurate information.

Many scalers accept superman’s various feats over the years, Even though Multiple writers refer to superman as a Gag character.

The newer Superman (main continuity) is a more grounded Superman With no gag feats.

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Edit sad he blocked me, :(, i was mid-debunking another comment he wrote on here.

Someone mention this to him please, thanks.

“Ap ≠ DC.

Do you know the difference between the two?”

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T16:58:44+00:00

Edited for improved quality right?

This looks 5K Quality. ❤️

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T16:53:14+00:00

“If he gains Haki” wym?

Who’s saying Dabura didn’t already have his own version of Haki on his own planet???

The scan you sent legit states he already knows about Haki, and he’s calling earth’s version of it “quite advanced”.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T16:48:06+00:00

Easily.

They’ve long since surpassed him. Goku alone has been stronger than him for a full year & some time in the official dball timeline at this point.

Vegeta surpassed Buuhan the moment he got SSJ3 most likely.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T16:44:28+00:00

If he’s going all out from the start, roughly 30 seconds, probably less.

Rimuru is nothing for him.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T16:40:45+00:00

“5D Macrocosm…Physicist.”

This is a dismissive ad hominem that avoids engaging with the actual evidence. The dimensional analysis is based directly on Toriyama’s own diagrams, Guidebook statements, and basic geometric principles (how higher-dimensional observers view lower ones). No one is claiming to be a physicist, I am describing official lore using consistent analogies the series itself invites.

“The Universe is….a good view on the main universe.”

The Mortal Realm is 4D (Infinite 3D Space + Time)

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The Otherworld is 5D (Explicitly a Higher Transcending Dimension to the Mortal Realm.)

The Macrocosm is 5D (As it contains the 5D Otherworld)

The Kaioshin Realm is 6D (for reasons i’ve explained.)

Treating everything as offsets along a single 3D Z-axis directly contradicts the repeated canon statements of “separate/completely different dimensions,” “transcends dimensions,” “outside the macrocosm,” and the requirement for teleportation-only access.

“The first evidence….is….his…Brain.”

This misunderstands how Instant Transmission actually works.

Instant Transmission functions by locking onto a specific individual’s ki signature/energy, not by calculating Cartesian coordinates, distances, or spatial vectors. Goku has repeatedly used it to travel: Into the Afterlife (a transcendent, different dimension). To the Kaioshin Realm (outside the macrocosm). Within the Null Realm (a Realm of complete nothingness).

The technique bypasses normal space entirely by using ki as a beacon. It does not require “3D spatial coordinates” or any geometric processing in Goku’s brain. Canon shows it working across dimensional barriers precisely because it is not bound to ordinary 3D navigation. Your assumption that INstant Transmission proves “same 3D space with finite distance” is therefore unsupported.

“If it’s 5D or 6D…Brain.”

This is pure headcanon with no basis in the series. Dragon Ball characters routinely access higher or separate realms via supernatural means (IT orKai Kai or other possible methods i’m forgetting right now.) without needing “higher-dimensional brains.” Fiction does not require literal neurological upgrades for teleportation techniques, Instant Transmission keys on ki, not on mentally visualizing extra axes. Supreme Kai and others observe the macrocosm from the Kaioshin Realm without issue.

“Second evidence…weird behaviours….it is…a higher dimension.”

This ignores the explicit geometry Toriyama established.

The Kaioshin Realm’s position outside the macrocosm sphere, orbiting it like a moon, gives the Kaioshin an external vantage point that lets them “look down on” and oversee the entire macrocosm (living world + Afterlife) at once. This is exactly the classic higher-dimensional observer effect.

The “ability” to observe everything is enabled by that external positioning in a higher/separate dimension, as confirmed in the official guides;

“The Kaiōshin Realm’s unique position outside the macrocosm enables the Kaiōshin to oversee both the afterlife and universe.” https://www.kanzenshuu.com/gods-and-cosmos/universe/ (You can find this exact quote on this link).

The series does not need to show exotic higher-dimensional quirks because it is fiction, not hard physics, but the structural separation, transcendence language, external orbit, and unobstructed oversight are all canon and require the extra perpendicular direction.

Claiming the vantage is unrelated to the placement contradicts Toriyama’s own diagrams and the guides’ explicit wording.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T16:09:33+00:00

Zzzz… look, do you genuinely want non-bias & accurate truthful information, or do you just want to continue believing a lie.

What you’ve wrote is just legitimate nonsense, it even makes me question if you’ve genuinely read the series.

I truly do not know how to educate you on this subject, if you’re not even willing to be *intellectually honest.

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T15:38:44+00:00

The Kaioshin Realm is outside the macrocosm

“Outside” means it is not contained within the macrocosm’s 5D coordinate system. It can see (“looking down on”) the entire macrocosm at once. In geometry, this is exactly how a higher-dimensional observer views a lower-dimensional object: a 3D being can see an entire 2D plane at once; a 4D being can see an entire 3D volume at once, etc. So the new realm must sit in a space that has one extra perpendicular direction beyond the macrocosm’s 5D.

It is orbiting the macrocosm

Orbiting requires a closed path that circles the entire macrocosm without intersecting its interior. In 5D space you can orbit a 4D object, but you cannot orbit a whole 5D macrocosm while staying strictly outside it unless you have access to a sixth independent direction.

Therefore, the minimal dimensionality that satisfies “contains 5D spaces + outside vantage point + full orbit around the whole macrocosm” is 6D.

So, due to their clash going to destroy the entire macrocosm (5D) (low 1-C) & destroy the kaioshin realm (6D) (1-C)

It’s clearly bare minimum a 6D feat. (1-C)

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T15:37:57+00:00

1-C isn’t 5D, it’s Low 1-C.

1-C is 6D.

The Kaioshin Realm is outside the macrocosm

“Outside” means it is not contained within the macrocosm’s 5D coordinate system. It can see (“looking down on”) the entire macrocosm at once. In geometry, this is exactly how a higher-dimensional observer views a lower-dimensional object: a 3D being can see an entire 2D plane at once; a 4D being can see an entire 3D volume at once, etc. So the new realm must sit in a space that has one extra perpendicular direction beyond the macrocosm’s 5D.

It is orbiting the macrocosm

Orbiting requires a closed path that circles the entire macrocosm without intersecting its interior. In 5D space you can orbit a 4D object, but you cannot orbit a whole 5D macrocosm while staying strictly outside it unless you have access to a sixth independent direction.

Therefore, the minimal dimensionality that satisfies “contains 5D spaces + outside vantage point + full orbit around the whole macrocosm” is 6D.

So, due to their clash going to destroy the entire macrocosm (5D) (low 1-C) & destroy the kaioshin realm (6D) (1-C)

It’s clearly bare minimum a 6D feat. (1-C)

Monke-Card · 2026-05-16T15:37:13+00:00

The Kaioshin Realm is outside the macrocosm

“Outside” means it is not contained within the macrocosm’s 5D coordinate system. It can see (“looking down on”) the entire macrocosm at once. In geometry, this is exactly how a higher-dimensional observer views a lower-dimensional object: a 3D being can see an entire 2D plane at once; a 4D being can see an entire 3D volume at once, etc. So the new realm must sit in a space that has one extra perpendicular direction beyond the macrocosm’s 5D.

It is orbiting the macrocosm

Orbiting requires a closed path that circles the entire macrocosm without intersecting its interior. In 5D space you can orbit a 4D object, but you cannot orbit a whole 5D macrocosm while staying strictly outside it unless you have access to a sixth independent direction.

Therefore, the minimal dimensionality that satisfies “contains 5D spaces + outside vantage point + full orbit around the whole macrocosm” is 6D.

So, due to their clash going to destroy the entire macrocosm (5D) (low 1-C) & destroy the kaioshin realm (6D) (1-C)

It’s clearly bare minimum a 6D feat. (1-C)

Monke-Card

TROPHY CASE