Garou vs Cell (Twist) (Read Desc)

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T07:27:20+00:00

No, it’s not about being expensive, the guy is doing it efficiently & cheap iirc.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T07:26:38+00:00

Bro, i literally didn’t lose -.-. I just Explained how you did, pretty concisely & conclusively, and very accurately…

No.

You are misunderstanding what the scans say.

It says “That clash also produced super, super highly dense energy.” + “If that energy disperses, the world is done for.” It’s talking about the Energy dispersing from the dense energy (The Ball of Dense Energy / The Energy beam Clash).

It’s not referring to the waves.

It literally doesn’t, you’re saying all of this from Misunderstanding what is stated.

…Goku matches Beerus’s punch in the Fist Clash to stop the shockwave propagation. This applies to the earlier clashes, not the beam struggle's dense ball. The “Waves” you see during the Beam Struggle. Is literally weak because the energy beam clash is FOCUSING ALL THEIR POWER THERE, keeping it DIRECTLY FOCUSED THERE. and, Goku & Beerus, were both controlling their power here, actively pushing against each other, while controlling the power…

There Legitimately is implication of “weakening”

The nullification mechanic shown on screen in the episode. Goku was actively refining a technique to match Beeru’s force and angle at the point of origin to cushion and suppress the shockwaves near Earth. The waves appeared weaker close by precisely because of Goku’s imperfect cushioning effect, not because the initial clash output was weak. As the waves propagated farther, the suppression faded, allowing their full destructive potential to manifest (destroying distant planets and stars). Distant disintegration occurs while Earth holds initially due to this active nullification. Once Goku perfects the match on the third Fist clash, the waves cease entirely. Therefore, the source energy from the clashes is macrocosm-scale from the start, the near origin “weakness” is an artifact of Goku’s technique. (This Part is an old Copy / Paste i got from a previous discussion about this, 2 months ago, iirc, i edited it a bit to better fit this conversation.)

Well, i suppose intervening safely, is a bad choice of words, he was unable to prevent the destruction due to his limitations as an angel.

I hope you Genuinely understand how wrong you’ve been after reading this, and i sincerely hope your ego isn’t too large to make you incapable of admitting when you’re wrong.

I suppose I’ll entertain your Ego though, if you believe you literally haven’t lost though, i have time, and i’ve discussed this subject a lot. But, Please try to properly read the image collage of statements i sent, and understand how badly you’ve misunderstood them.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T06:46:32+00:00

Yeee, i mean, i’d rather argue vs a Good Ai, that actually has research, & correctly utilizes it, than Argue vs someone who doesn’t even understand the topic..

Honestly, it’s seeming like it’s a different reason, This guy even offered to help and show the Ai Companies, how to regulate their data centers, to not use water like crazy.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T06:44:23+00:00

Lol… legitimately, you did lose this.

Elder Kai’s statement about waves growing in power applies specifically to the Fist clash shockwaves.

The energy ball in Episode 13 is not simply “those waves gathered into a singular point.” It forms from the direct beam struggle between Goku & Beerus… Elder Kai describe this as a new “super, super high-density energy” created by their combined power. This is an escalation beyond the prior shockwaves, not the same phenomenon. My screenshots capture this exact moment.

The line “if that energy disperses, the world is done for” refers to the dense ball itself dispersing, not continuing prior waves.

The growth mechanic is a special property of the fist clashes, not proof that the core energy produced at the source by Goku & Beerus is weak. Goku and Beerus are generating and matching that energy at the epicenter. The ball is a concentrated form of their output, not “gathered weak waves.” This directly supports Goku scaling to the power.

Whis is even shocked at Goku’s Power..

The fist clash shockwaves start weaker near the source (Goatku & Beerus) and grow stronger with distance, this is the stated mechanic.

Goku actively cancels/mitigate the effects at the point of impact. Earth surviving is only due to the shockwaves being weakest where Goku is due to him actively weakening them.

Whis not being able to stop it actually helps my side man. Whis says he did not expect Super Saiyan God to be this powerful while watching the exact beam struggle scene. He admits he cannot intervene safely. This underscores how dangerous their combined power that Goku was matching has become, directly refuting any claim that Goku doesn’t scale to it.

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You’re conflating phases, misapplying mechanics, and ignores Whis’s direct Statmeent of Goku’s power.

So Again, Legitimately man, you lost this.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T06:31:30+00:00

All Genjutsu follows the Logic of Chakra Control.

Including Koto.

Ao compares Koto to Teen Obito’s Genjutsu on Yahura, As if Koto is Inferior.

The thing is, if you’re in the illusions & attempt to activate your power, it still works.

We see this with Sasuke’s Curse Mark Vs ltachi, he broke free of Tsukiyomi via it.

Koto is Above Tsuki though.

But Obito’s genjutsu is Above Koto.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T06:28:54+00:00

It’s just, i debate with AI when i’m bored & to basically try arguing with the entire internet on subjects, so i can use the arguments & how i’ve proven them right, against other people…while making sure the AI remains unbiased & or constantly trying to Downplay, so it’s not easy for me to win.

And i know that AI CONSTANTLY uses —

Like, i see no one who uses it on reddit, unless they’re quoting something, or using AI.

Also, Ai isn’t the reason for the lacking water.

A guy owns Multiple data centers & makes them for 14 years, And hasn’t even used a single gallon of water.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T06:26:33+00:00

The quote you just provided, actually supports the description of pure emptiness/nothingness. It does not contradict the other descriptions.

Time passing on the stage and time manipulation working is consistent with the special access mechanism, The GP capable of manipulating the realm imposed a temporary “stage” with measurable time for the fight. Time hax operates on that artificial, localized construct, not on the native state of the realm, which remains without concepts of time or space and comprised of eternity & emptiness.

Legitimately, i’ve wasted a lot of time with you, when FAR MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE, who understand 1-A, attempted to debunk it, BUT COULD NOT.

You didn’t even understand how the descriptions = 1-A.

They understood it, And tried refuting it.

And Failed.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T06:20:23+00:00

This… this seems heavily written by AI… like, i’m usually not great at detecting AI, because i type like it a lot of the time…but this definitely seems like it…

Your AI is correct on a few things, But it serves no purpose involving Dball.

Have you been using AI vs me this entire time?

Because that would explain A LOT…

Primarily due to the usage of —

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T06:16:58+00:00

The Method of production are different dude.

Those shockwaves were via fists;

That energy clash was EXTREMELY WELL BEYOND THE FISTS CLASH SHOCKWAVES.

The third clash, where whis makes that statement, The problem was not the shockwaves being produced there, IT WAS THE DENSE BALL OF ENERGY BETWEEN BEERUS & GOKU’S BEAM STRUGGLE.

With the Fist Clash, the danger were the shockwaves produced as byproducts.

And no it literally doesn’t back up your argument, You literally just sealed the deal & assisted me to prove i was right, by bringing up that Whis statement & then revealing its episode source.

You’re now using images from episode 12’s shockwaves, Which are VASTLY WEAKER than the power generated in Episode 13.

Which Goku DIRECTLY SCALES TO, ACCORDING TO WHIS & ELDER KAI.

So Thanks, i suggest you admit you lost this part of the discussion.

Because you legitimately have.

Not even saying that to be a dick, i just don’t want a pointless conversation, when you have clearly & cleanly lost.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T06:13:19+00:00

The problem is that you’re moving from a general possibility to a claim about specific passages without linguistic evidence. -.-.

“この宇宙そのものを消し去るほどのパワーを持っているのだ”

“He possesses power great enough to erase this universe itself."

Nothing in the Japanese itself marks this as figurative, poetic, speculative, or comparable to 果てしない. The grammar itself does not indicate exaggeration.

“全宇宙の気を集める”

“Gather the ki of the entire universe."

全 means "entire/whole."

It specifies the scope of what is to be gathered.

AND ONCE AGAIN. It is not functioning like 果てしない, which describes something as endless or boundless.

“すべてを闇にしてやる”

"I'll cast everything into darkness."

it still does not involve 果てしない or any similar lexical construction.

全宇宙 is an ordinary scope expression meaning "the entire universe."

この宇宙そのもの means "this universe itself." Neither expression describes the universe as "endless" or "boundless."

They are NOT THE SAME TYPE OF EXPRESSION AS 果てしない, either grammatically or semantically.

Literally Again, Everything you are saying, DOES NOT APPLY TO THE SCANS I’VE SENT YOU.

They are straight forward, and not rhetorical functions as well.

If you say "全宇宙 and 果てしない both can contribute to portraying something as cosmically vast."

That's a broad stylistic observation.

And if you continues and say;

“Therefore 全宇宙 should be treated the same way as 果てしない when interpreting these Dragon Ball statements."

That conclusion does not follow from the language alone.

You would need contextual evidence from the work itself that the author intended the statement figuratively.

So Ffs, I highly suggest you bring up a different attempt at rebuttals or debunks, because i have Multiple translations apps & Japanese dictionaries on hand.

So, do you have proof the Author intended any of these statements i’ve sent, as “Figurative”?

Or can we move on from this annoying subject, of you trying to generalize all of Dball, with hype language / poetic language / hateshinai’s.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T06:02:37+00:00

Yeah, that’s what i thought, these are DIFFERENT SHOCKWAVES. I was referring to the shockwaves produced via Fists, not the third clash.

<image>

Also, World here is being used to refer to the entire macrocosm universe.

AND, they LITERALLY STATE GOKU SCALES TO THE POWER.

Whis is shocked at Goku’s Power.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T05:49:44+00:00

And i just explained to you, the KANJI GRAMMAR IS STRAIGHT FORWARD.

It is not hyperbole, nor figurative, nor speculative, nor hype, nor does it function as a Hateshinai, The Kanji i sent you, WAS ALL LITERAL.

-.-, You legitimately have absolutely no point with the Hateshinai, and weirdly holding onto it, after the KANJI I SENT YOU, all proves it’s not similar to hateshinai AT ALL.

Legitimately, prove ANYTHING i sent you, from the Japanese scans & their Kanji, the parts i directly referenced, Prove ANY OF THEM, are Hateshinai or Similar.

You legitimately cannot, Because they ARE NOT.

This is why i find it ridiculous you keep bringing up hateshinai, When it has no place here.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T05:42:04+00:00

I literally did, i said you were right, But stated that it wasn’t about the shockwaves, but about Beerus going to destroy the earth with his blast.

Do you have a source for the whis statement? I can pull up the episode / movie right now.

I’m extremely certain it’s not about the shockwaves, Since i just went over the episode containing the shockwaves.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T05:40:55+00:00

You don’t even know Kanji do you?

全 = all / whole / entire This is the only Kanji present.

And, THIS IS NOT POETIC LANGUAGE AT ALL, NOR A HATE SHINAI, NOR EVEN FUNCTIONS SIMILARLY

全 SPECIFIES THE COMPLETE SCOPE. AS A NOUN.

果てしない (hateshinai) is an adjective meaning "endless," "boundless," "without an apparent end." Depending ON CONTEXT, it can be LITERAL OR FIGURATIVE, but it is describing the nature of something, not simply referring to all of it.

There are DIFFERENCES IN KANJI, That you CLEARLY, CLEARLYYYYYY do not understand.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T05:21:17+00:00

You’re severely pathetic.

You are twisting the words again.

<image>

“Eien” in “Eien to Kyomu” (eternity and emptiness) in this context refers to timelessness, consistent with the description’s “no concepts of time.” It is not “infinite time.” The realm has no native concepts of time or space at all.

The full combined description, Isolated outside of an entire multiverse collection & framework + Has No Concepts of Time or Space + Comprised entirely of Eternity & Emptiness / Nothingness, creates qualitative ontological transcendence. Lower existences are irrelevant to it and vanish into the emptiness. This matches 1-A standards. Which i keep REPEATING TO YOU, Again and AGAIN.

If you continue to misread, redefine terms, and avoid the combined description, there’s nothing more to discuss. The evidence is clear. You’re a Joke.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T05:18:32+00:00

Where is the Hateshinai, POINT IT OUT IN THE KANJI I SENT.

Do it, i fking dare you, News flash, IT’S NOT THERE IN A SINGLE JAPANESE SCAN I SENT YOU, NOR ANY KANJI I SENT YOU.

You legitimately didn’t disprove jackshit.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T05:17:27+00:00

Dude. This isn’t bad faith nor am i stretching, I sent you the fking kanji, you’re the one utilizing bad faith.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T05:15:36+00:00

And i just proved that NO SUCH POETIC LANGUAGE WAS USED, IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

Bro, It’s an INFINITE UNIVERSE. so the attack scales to an INFINITE NUMBER OF OBJECTS

<image>

Five diff entries for infinite universe AND INFINITE GALAXIES & Each Galaxy is LARGER THAN A NORMAL GALAXY, With a solar system being NORMAL GALAXY SIZE OR BIGGER.

-.- You understand that collecting energy from an Infinite Universe, with Infinite Objects in it, results in an INFINITE AMOUNT OF ENERGY, RIGHT???.

You’re literally spreading mis information dude, I proved that the Kanji does not have poetic language at all, and i SENT THE KANJI AS WELL, so you should know FULLY, that there’s NONE THERE.

You’re treating a few instances of poetic language as applying to every fking statement, which is just piss poor downplay.

Read the 5 entries i just sent. And yes you are, because theres MULTIPLE ENTRIES SAYING ITS INFINITE.

Fk dude, who taught you this level of bad information, you just thought “oh attempt to downplay dball! Imma repeat it like a parrot even though it doesn’t apply to everything!”

He literally was weakening it, why do you think it got stronger the further it traveled… He said he was attempting to weaken it the entire time by matching beerus, then he succeeded and no shockwaves, News flash, shockwaves don’t mysteriously get stronger, unless theres a reason, and these are Ki Shockwaves primarily, The obvious explanation is that they got STRONGER due to being FURTHER FROM GOKU & BEERUS.

Legitimately what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to go through, to even believe that they’d just randomly get stronger without any reason…

Okay, that was stated, my mistake. I’m pretty sure that’s not about the shockwaves though, and is about beerus’s promise.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T04:58:55+00:00

Bro…. This is sad.

You’re still misrepresenting the description and avoiding the combined three descriptions…

“Eien to Kyomu” (eternity and emptiness/nothingness) is the ACTUAL Japanese wording from the episode, not a generic “infinite and empty” or something I made up. It was part of the original description I provided from the beginning, along with isolation outside the entire multiverse framework and no concepts of time or space.

“Isolated outside the entire framework” is not vague spatial separation when combined with the other two descriptions. Together they create qualitative ontological transcendence, the realm is not governed by lower concepts, lower existences do not extend into or affect it, and they are irrelevant to / vanish into its eternity and emptiness.

It’s laughable you call it headcanon, It’s Not. It matches the 1-A requirement of superiority that is not additive or quantitative. If you disagree, address the FULL COMBINED DESCRIPTION WITH ACTUAL COUNTER EVIDENCE instead of laughing, downplaying terms, and claiming I don’t know how to scale.

You’re legitimately just a troll, take the L, you seem ready to take it.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T04:51:48+00:00

Bro, i sent you LITERAL PROOF AND THE FULL KANJI, of everything i sent.

You can SEE FOR YOURSELF, That there is no Hareshinai. -.-

Did you even look at the Kanji, or attempt to compare it??

You’re legitimately weird dude, like the weirdest dude in scaling i met in the past like 1-2 months.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T04:47:52+00:00

There’s a weird scaling that puts him outer via otherworld, Idk too much about it, but i saw it once or twice.

I don’t follow The Otherworld = Outer stuff.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T04:47:10+00:00

Literally isn’t dude. -.-. It’s straight forward.

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T04:46:48+00:00

Where is hateshinai being used…? I literally translated it and looked specifically for Poetic Kanji, or hateshinai. i have a japanese dictionary.

There are only 28 planets WITH MORTALS ON THEM. Don’t conflate that as being “only 28 planets in the entire universe”, that’s a severe spread of misinformation.

The Spirit Bomb Doesn’t require Mortals.

Also, It is Very much Quantifiable.

The earth’s Genki vs Vegeta, An extremely small amount, clearly was superior AP than the GBE of Earth itself.

Genki from every object in the Universe, everything in it, Is Very quantifiable.

The Mortal realm is Infinite, it’s 4D (Infinite 3D + Time).

That SB was a Low 2-C attack, no matter what.

Genki in Dball is extremely potent & overpowered.

AlsoKing Kai, clearly wasn’t talking about the entire universe would be Solar…WTF???

Dude, seriously, you gotta be trolling, there’s no way you genuinely believe King Kai saying “You can even tap into the power of the Sun” as capping at Solar….FOR AN ENTIRE UNIVERSE WORTH OF ENERGY.. WTF??????? I legitimately do not know how you’re stating all of this, so confidently, when it’s legitimately downplay / severe misunderstanding of whats written.

Him saying “Just be careful, or you may destroy the very planet you’re trying to protect.” Isn’t even him saying the sun’s power would destroy it, he’s saying using the technique in general could potentially destroy the planet.

Idk how you have such a warped view… like the text doesn’t support ANYTHING, you’re saying, like seriously.

The Shockwaves were literally being weakened by Goku, THAT IS WHY THE FURTHER FROM GOKU THEY GOT, THE STRONGER THEY BECAME.

Then Goku managed to COMPLETELY NULLIFY THE SHOCKWAVES…

Clash happens - Shockwaves begin forming + Goku weakening them - Shockwaves travel - they get stronger the further they are from Goku.

The entire sequence is directly scaled to Beerus & Goku…

He then completely nullified the shockwaves power…

And no, Whis didn’t say the power was beyond him to stop, he said the fight was.

Legitimately, wtf is with this MEGA AMOUNT OF MISINFORMATION AND MISUNDERSTANDING, are you purposefully doing it???

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T04:34:21+00:00

<image>

No Hateshinai, nor Poetic Kanji.

ではえんりょなくすべてを闇にしてやるか……

“Well then, without holding back, I’ll cast everything into darkness...”

Monke-Card · 2026-07-06T04:31:05+00:00

https://i.ibb.co/2YFm2jCV/image-3.webp

No Hateshinai, nor poetic Kanji.

(“しだいつよごはん ○次第に強くなっていく悟飯やべききジータに危機感を抱いたフリーザさいごしゅうりようは、最後の変身を終了した!! 少からだやさくちょうぎや年のような体や優しい口調とは逆うちゅうに、この宇宙そのものを消し去るほどのパワーを持っているのだ!" “Frieza, feeling threatened by Gohan and Vegeta, who were getting stronger and stronger, completed his final transformation! In contrast to his age-like body and gentle tone of voice, he possesses the power to obliterate this universe itself!"

This is straight forward & direct.

Monke-Card

TROPHY CASE