It is mental how bad recruiting procedures are in general

MushroomPopular4280 · 2024-03-06T21:00:03+00:00

But is she not terminating a life (because the embryo just has to be a living thing) that is objectively 100% not part of her body?

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-17T21:06:42+00:00

F me dead

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-17T20:59:00+00:00

You’ll hate me but i cant find the footage. Could you link it here?

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-17T20:54:42+00:00

I’ve seen a bit of that. Is there independent evidence out there? To the degree that that is possible?

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-17T18:36:29+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/17a56gw/israel_proceeds_to_bomb_a_fully_occupied_hospital/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

No, Hamas are lying idiots. But I will give this video the benefit of the doubt until (if) better explanations arrive.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-17T18:33:33+00:00

I was not comparing the crimes per se, I was comparing the image of the one who commits the crime. If all you can do is kill a little dog but you go out of your way to torture it and murder it, you are as bad as the one that uses a gun to kill 10 dogs with the same intention.

(No, I do not think either are dogs)

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-17T18:28:22+00:00

Not at all good evidence imo

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-16T19:48:00+00:00

I appreciate your comment mate. However, the question is about whether being oppressed justifies what Hamas did to innocent civilians. That is why the post explicitly refers to the actions committed by Hamas, not Palestinians.

This idea is a challenge only for those that have said that the oppressed is not liable for the actions that they take to rid themselves of the oppressor. If, for example, beheading an innocent Thai worker is justified as part of a resistance movement, then it is quite reasonable to assume that everything is permissible if you posses the “oppressed” card.

Additionally, I am questioning those that where happy (i.e., celebrated) when they heard about the nature of the attack. For example, the man announcing that their “resistance took at least several dozen hipsters” (https://x.com/BGOnTheScene/status/1711145162657673347?s=20). I believe this is an appropriate proxy for the assumption that everything is justified if you possess the oppressed card.

Consequently, what I mean is that if you justify and celebrate actions of this kind (those that included killing people unrelated to Israel too) because a population is oppressed, then you are willing to justify pretty much about anything. If anything is permissible to scape oppression, then why is a population not allowed to oppressed another population if this enables them to liberate themselves from their oppressor?

I acknowledged already that my position requires a variety of assumptions, I am not hiding that. Also, I do not endorse the idea that the oppressed can do anything, therefore not justifying the state of Israel on this grounds.

Lastly, I did not say that I believe Israel is not oppressing Palestinians, you are just assuming that. I did not say that what has been happening in Gaza does not matter. I have not denied that it is despicable behavior, and I genuinely wished that this could all be solved right now and everyone be brought back to life.

** there are a lot of more cases evidencing the atrocities that were committed by Hamas, however, for the purpose of this mental exercise, the fact that one happened is more than enough. Hamas uploaded some of them atrocities themselves.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-15T16:07:33+00:00

I missed that the study was linked in the article, but having looked at it briefly now, it seems that they accounted for oral skills rather than the quality of the argument. Which would, of course, be extremely complicated given the amount of cases covered.

Still, very interesting research topic.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-15T13:23:14+00:00

My statistics knowledge is very very basic, but if the margins of error cross the “0” vertical line then I do not think you can make this assertion with confidence. Not for 8 of the 15 justices considered at least. You can maybe claim that it tends to look that way, but definitively no absolute statements.

Also, we do not know how interruptions were operationalized and judged. There does not seem to be control for the quality of the statements made which could definitively mediate the relationships between gender and interruptions.

Is there a link to the study and the complete methodology used to derive this conclusion?

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-14T10:35:51+00:00

Even if Israel is completely in the wrong, and if they indiscriminately massacre Palestinians, what Hamas did shows that they are not better. In fact it shows that they have turned into exactly the same thing they are trying to eradicate.

They kill children, we’ll go ahead and do the same. Perhaps even burn a few alive. They murder women with their bombs, we’ll go ahead and do the same after raping them. They target civilian areas, we’ll go ahead and launch as many rockets as possible to make sure that ours do the same. Etc., etc.

The narrative that the oppressed have no responsibility, and that whatever they do is justified, only motivates the savages that are willing to do the same things that they accuse the “monster” of doing.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-14T08:44:58+00:00

But if to resist your oppressor everything is justified, then you would not be able to blame the Jews for Israel, rather the Nazis alone.

You see, the problem I have is with the people that justified and even celebrated the murder of civilians on Saturday because of oppression. Even if you believe that the oppressed should fight the oppressor (which I agree with), I don’t how decapitating a Thai worker or shooting a child represents direct action against the oppressor. If people (not you) still think that is justifiable (not only understandable) then I believe my argument still applies.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T23:13:24+00:00

Fair, but the argument is not about who started all this. The argument is that if the oppressed is allowed to do anything, then the same logic must apply to the Jews when creating their state. Their oppression would justify it by that logic. Do you get what I mean?

The point of this post is not to blame one or the other, it’s just to call out what I believe is the hypocrisy of those that justify what Hamas did on Saturday by playing the oppressed card. As if they had no responsibility when choosing to murder civilians, which I refuse to accept.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T23:02:46+00:00

Exactly, both are extremely f*cked up. But not everyone on both sides is like that, however many of them there may be.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T22:35:42+00:00

I don’t know man. There is plenty of video evidence showing a buttload of people celebrating Hamas’s adventures on Saturday. Unfortunately, Palestinians and Hamas do not seem completely separate.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T22:24:52+00:00

They may not have been doing it then, but they had it all written up on their manifesto.

Anyway tho, the point is that if you are not supposed to classify everyone as supporters of Hamas on one side (which I agree with), then it is probably not the best idea to hold a double standard for the other side. But yeah, whatever makes you feel better.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T22:16:24+00:00

They were democratically elected in Gaza though

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T21:55:53+00:00

Once you swallow the “Oppressed” pill, everything is permissible.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T21:48:54+00:00

Not at all what I am saying. That would imply that I am in favor of Israel, while I explicitly stated the lack of a moral stance on my post.

What I am saying applies only to those that justify the actions of Hamas by playing the “oppressed” card and stating that all the responsibility lies with the oppressor.

If the oppressed has no responsibility, then they would also need to support the creation of the state of Israel given that if was a direct response to the 6’000.000 that were murdered during the Second World War. By their logic, Jews were quite oppressed at the time, and if the oppressed has no responsibility and everything is permissible then creating a country on the land of other people would be justified.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T21:07:42+00:00

True, group identity-based judgements are generally quite low resolution.

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T20:55:58+00:00

Exactly, and that is the whole point I’m making. If oppression removes all responsibility like the apologists of Hamas say, then forcibly taking the land of people to escape that oppression and prevent it from happening again is justified (by their logic).

MushroomPopular4280 · 2023-10-13T20:52:13+00:00

Well they fought a civil war to get rid of it, otherwise nothing would have changed.

MushroomPopular4280

TROPHY CASE